How ****ing RUDE

Originally posted by BackFire
They're prepared to if they have to, but it's not like they're walking around looking for some Iraqi to kill to quench their insatiable appetite for death.

did i ever say that? you're doing it again ❌

Originally posted by BackFire

Also, nothing about what I said was "black and white". If you don't think that there are worse things going on over there than some soldier talking shit about an Iraqi citizen than you're reasoning is completely void.

your perception is your reality. if you refuse to see the point then it is by default void. i guess we're done here 😬

Originally posted by PVS
did i ever say that? you're doing it again ❌

Doing what? That was the impression you're giving through your posts; that these soldiers are walking around LOOKING for people to kill because they've been turned into monterous killing machines...dehumanized...yadda yadda.

our perception is your reality. if you refuse to see the point then it is by default void. i guess we're done here

I'm not refusing to see any point, you're just failing to make it in a sound manner. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that you're basic point, ignoring all agenda you may have and exagerations you've made, is that it CAN become a larger problem, which I don't disagree with. Though this wasn't said, you opted to literally quote the message from Full Metal Jacket and (accidentally?) insinuate that these soldiers are out looking for problems and trying to find Iraqi's that they may kill.

Originally posted by BackFire
Doing what? That was the impression you're giving through your posts; that these soldiers are walking around LOOKING for people to kill because they've been turned into monterous killing machines...dehumanized...yadda yadda.

*sigh* can you please drop the assumptions? i really didnt expect this from you.

by 'programmed' i mean that soldiers are conditioned to kill. you cant just pluck american kids off the street, put a gun in their hand, point to someone and say "THATS A BAD GUY!!! KILL HIM NOW!!!!".
thus, conditioning. when did i say that amounted to psychos stalking the street of baghdad salivating over the thought of killing someone? oh wait, i didnt.

dehuminisation is a tactic in conditioning to view the enemy as less than human, or at least less than yourself. usually a general name is tagged on them all, taking away individual identity. like the opposite of seeing pictures of their wife and kids before you kill them. get it? its quite common and quite ancient a tactic in conditioning soldiers to kill without hesitating a.k.a. listening to their conscience and coming to the realisation that they are killing a human being with a family and parents and kids and so on and so forth.

then see my point about the similarities between those they protect and those they kill and connect the dots.

Originally posted by BackFire
I'm not refusing to see any point, you're just failing to make it in a sound manner. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that you're basic, point, ignoring all agenda you may have and exagerations you've made, is that it CAN become a larger problem, which I don't disagree with. Though this wasn't said, you opted to literally quote the message from Full Metal Jacket and (accidentally?) insinuate that these soldiers are out looking for problems and trying to find Iraqi's that they may kill.

ill try again. the attitude of disrespect toward iraqis (and yes, there is MUCH disrespect) is directly related to the same mental condition. a way of viewing others as beneath you. that doesnt mean that a lack of respect leads to killing. repeating over and over that i in fact said that is pointless...because i never said that. i thought it was a simple statement, and not meant to preach the 'liberal agenda' you keep tagging on the straw man.

*sigh* can you please drop the assumptions? i really didnt expect this from you.

No assumptions have been made. You simply allow me to retort in this manner by posting overly dramatic off the wall retorts that have little to do with the initial point of the thread: that there were some soldiers making fun of some Iraqi's. One of us has made some assumptions though: That this WILL become a bigger problem than it is and that them doing this IS based on their "dehumanization" and their being "programmed" to kill despite little/no evidence to support it.

by 'programmed' i mean that soldiers are conditioned to kill. you cant just pluck american kids off the street, put a gun in their hand, point to someone and say "THATS A BAD GUY!!! KILL HIM NOW!!!!".
thus, conditioning. when did i say that amounted to psychos stalking the street of baghdad salivating over the thought of killing someone? oh wait, i didnt.

Wrong, they're conditioned to defend themselves and fight if necessary. It's important to keep that in mind. This "conditioned to kill" thing, again, makes it sound like they've become soulless barbarians. Now, don't go saying I'm claiming you said something that you didn't. I didn't say you SAID that, merely that's what it comes off as when you use that term. They're trained to kill if necessary, nothing more.

dehuminisation is a tactic in conditioning to view the enemy as less than human, or at least less than yourself. usually a general name is tagged on them all, taking away individual identity. like the opposite of seeing pictures of their wife and kids before you kill them. get it? its quite common and quite ancient a tactic in conditioning soldiers to kill without hesitating a.k.a. listening to their conscience and coming to the realisation that they are killing a human being with a family and parents and kids and so on and so forth.

I have a new drinking game. Okay. For every time you've posted the word "dehumanization" in this thread, take a shot. Ready, Go!

Seriously though, you're again assuming that their mocking of Iraqi Citizens is based on this conditioning when it may not be. For all we know they were just making jokes about some Iraqi. If this is all they're doing than it's not a problem at all. I'm not denying that this is a tactic, simply that this doesn't necessarily have to do with the topic at hand, which you've provided zero evidence for.

ill try again. the attitude of disrespect toward iraqis (and yes, there is MUCH disrespect) is directly related to the same mental condition. a way of viewing others as beneath you. that doesnt mean that a lack of respect leads to killing. repeating over and over that i in fact said that is pointless...because i never said that. i thought it was a simple statement, and not meant to preach the 'liberal agenda' you keep tagging on the straw man.

Much, much better, my friend. But yet again, it's assuming that this IS related, when it may not be. Could it be? Possibly, can't say for sure. It could also just be some young men screwing around and having fun. Sure, it's a dick thing to do, but it's not necessarily based on this tactic of dehumanization you're speaking of.

Strawman.....that sure is a popular term to throw around these days on this forum. Whob says it all the time improperly, and now you. I said "agenda" because that's honestly what all this rhetoric sounds like. Sounds like you have a predetermined idea about this war, and are now trying to impose those ideals in every thread even when it isn't entirely proper or even necessarily relevant.

Backfire, it seems odd that you are denying that soldiers are conditioned to kill. Its just a fact.

They're conditioned to kill in a similar manner that cops are "conditioned to kill". They're trained to do it if necessary. Which is what I said. What I denied is that this is the inherent cause of the topic of the thread.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You need to realize that these Terrorists (Iraqis) are only guest in New America (Iraq) ....so they should jsut shut up..the Heroes (soldiers) have every right to make fun of them Bin Ladens (Iraqis)

Agreed

:double post:

no offence dude, but you're being ridiculous.

and i did use the term "straw man" correctly, thanks.
you labeled my post as being liberal agenda motivated and attacked that. thats a strawman tactic. look it up.

so i guess ill sift through the coal and look for a diamond...

Originally posted by BackFire
One of us has made some assumptions though: That this WILL become a bigger problem than it is and that them doing this IS based on their "dehumanization" and their being "programmed" to kill despite little/no evidence to support it.

quote me. where did i say that? ridiculous ❌

Originally posted by BackFire
Wrong, they're conditioned to defend themselves and fight if necessary. It's important to keep that in mind. This "conditioned to kill" thing, again, makes it sound like they've become soulless barbarians.

soulless barbarians? wow dude, this is exhausting. should i throw words in your mouth? should i say that you're telling me that all u.s. troops sing and dance in the streets while throwing rose pedals at the feet of every iraqi? should i then go on to argue how that is a ridiculous thing for you to think? no that would be ridiculous, a waste of OUR time.

Originally posted by BackFire
[B]I have a new drinking game. Okay. For every time you've posted the word "dehumanization" in this thread, take a shot. Ready, Go!

dont like hearing a point again? then dont put words in my mouth and force me to repeat the point. shall i pour you another shot?

dehumanization

Originally posted by BackFire
[B]Seriously though, you're again assuming that their mocking of Iraqi Citizens is based on this conditioning when it may not be. For all we know they were just making jokes about some Iraqi. If this is all they're doing than it's not a problem at all. I'm not denying that this is a tactic, simply that this doesn't necessarily have to do with the topic at hand, which you've provided zero evidence for.

how in the hell can i provide proof of a mentallity? the first sensible part of your post and then you ask me to hand over tangible proof of the intangible. should i provide articles of abuse at rist of being labeled AGAIN as a liberal? nope. not going down that road ❌

anyway, to address the sensible part of that quote: yes, the scene ronny pointed out could have just been some bullshit. could very well have been "look she's fat huhuhuh". however the later part of her post implies otherwise. i hope she'll come back and elaborate on what she saw. and if they are only making fun then that is not a problem, so long as its an isolated incident, as per the fat chick example. however if its a general hbit of disrespecting all iraqis then i see a serious problem, the same as i see a problem with cops who have zero respect for anyone who isnt white. i guess we differ in opinion there.

Originally posted by BackFire
Much, much better, my friend. But yet again, it's assuming that this IS related, when it may not be. Could it be? Possibly, can't say for sure. It could also just be some young men screwing around and having fun. Sure, it's a dick thing to do, but it's not necessarily based on this tactic of dehumanization you're speaking of.

i didnt say its based on, but rather a biproduct of.
oh and you just said "dehumanization", should i take a shot now?

Originally posted by BackFire
Strawman.....that sure is a popular term to throw around these days on this forum. Whob says it all the time improperly, and now you. I said "agenda" because that's honestly what all this rhetoric sounds like. Sounds like you have a predetermined idea about this war, and are now trying to impose those ideals in every thread even when it isn't entirely proper or even necessarily relevant.

since we are on the topic of logical fallacies in debating look up "ad hominem" because all your accusations of bias are also laced with constant accusational jabs, dumbing down and camouflaging your point (military term! 😱 ) should i call you a right wingnut in turn and we can have another dime a dozen slug fest? try to make the points outweigh the jabs, thats all i ask.

...and now aqua teen hunger force is on, so we're done for the night 😛

and i did use the term "straw man" correctly, thanks.
you labeled my post as being liberal agenda motivated and attacked that. thats a strawman tactic. look it up

I labeled and attacked that? Interesting. Where did this happen? I mentioned that it SOUNDED like liberal agenda, not that you HAD one, and asked if your sources weren't biased towards a liberal agenda, that's hardly a label or an attack.

quote me. where did i say that? ridiculous

not really backfire. in fact its directly related to the killing.
the people within an occupied country are dehumanised and
thus easier to kill indiscriminately. during vietnam, people at home
saw south vietnamese and vietcong, but our troops were conditioned
to just see 'gooks'. its sad but thats how our military is able to
convince ordinary kids to kill on command without question, in
that they are conditioned to be ready to kill everyone

Good enough?

soulless barbarians? wow dude, this is exhausting. should i throw words in your mouth? should i say that you're telling me that all u.s. troops sing and dance in the streets while throwing rose pedals at the feet of every iraqi? should i then go on to argue how that is a ridiculous thing for you to think? no that would be ridiculous, a waste of OUR time.

Oh look, you must have completely overlooked the next sentance in my post following the "barbarian" statement. I'll do the honors:

"Now, don't go saying I'm claiming you said something that you didn't. I didn't say you SAID that, merely that's what it comes off as when you use that term. They're trained to kill if necessary, nothing more."

dont like hearing a point again? then dont put words in my mouth and force me to repeat the point. shall i pour you another shot?

dehumanization

Shit, I need to catch up! *chugs*

I have no problem hearing a point, just make it properly. Being overly dramatic and saying that a soldier making fun of an Iraqi citizen IS based on them being dehumanized is foolish. Ah hell, one more *chugs*.

how in the hell can i provide proof of a mentallity? the first sensible part of your post and then you ask me to hand over tangible proof of the intangible. should i provide articles of abuse at rist of being labeled AGAIN as a liberal? nope. not going down that road no

anyway, to address the sensible part of that quote: yes, the scene ronny pointed out could have just been some bullshit. could very well have been "look she's fat huhuhuh". however the later part of her post implies otherwise. i hope she'll come back and elaborate on what she saw. and if they are only making fun then that is not a problem, so long as its an isolated incident, as per the fat chick example. however if its a general hbit of disrespecting all iraqis then i see a serious problem, the same as i see a problem with cops who have zero respect for anyone who isnt white. i guess we differ in opinion there.

Didn't ask for proof, asked for some kind of evidence, which could include any form of reasoning, which you've actually given with the later part of this quote. One that I'll agree with.

Yes, it's a problem, but there are far more pressing matters at hand than the possibility of a soldier saying a joke that may be insulting to Iraqis. Which has been my stance on the matter the whole time, if you read my very first post in this thread.

i didnt say its based on, but rather a biproduct of.
oh and you just said "dehumanization", should i take a shot now?

Fair enough. But either way, it's impossible to know for sure that whatever statements made by the soldier is a "biproduct" of said tactics. Even if it is a somewhat spiteful remark made towards Iraqis as a whole, it could just be the guy who said it is an *******.

Hell, this game is confusing. How about this. Take a shot after every quote/retort segement of my post, I'll do the same for you. Sounds fun.

since we are on the topic of logical fallacies in debating look up "ad hominem" because all your accusations of bias are also laced with constant jabs, dumbing down and camouflaging your point (military term! :eek smile not that i dont have the same assaulting manner, but try to make the points outweigh the jabs, thats all i ask.

Don't need to look it up, I know what it means. And I've not commited it. I've made no personal attacks against your character. As said, I mentioned that it SOUNDED like you had an agenda and I ASKED if your source for the information itself was biased. That's hardly an attack. Also, for Ad Hominem to be valid it needs to be the primary focus of my posts to attack you rather than your argument, which I haven't done. Most of my posts have been directly in relation to your arguments and have been about making points. And I certainly haven't been camoflaging my point. It's been pretty blunt from the get-go. That while this can be seen as a slight problem, it simply pales in comparison to larger, more important problems going on over there on a constant basis.

I'm going to cheat... *chugs*

Originally posted by PVS
...and now aqua teen hunger force is on, so we're done for the night 😛

Is it a new one?

Regaurdless, I am done for the night because 1. I need to take a shower/play video games/masturbate and 2. Our discussion is dangerously close to becoming very redundant and that's generally where I stop the argument. I'm not one to feel the silly desire to get the last word in an argument just for the sake of getting the last word.

Though, I think this drinking game is a real winner.

That's awful, I find it sickening when troops (I assume you are speaking about the troops) do stuff like that, make fun of them. They are meant to help them, not ridicule.

"not really backfire. in fact its directly related to the killing.
the people within an occupied country are dehumanised and
thus easier to kill indiscriminately. during vietnam, people at home
saw south vietnamese and vietcong, but our troops were conditioned
to just see 'gooks'. its sad but thats how our military is able to
convince ordinary kids to kill on command without question, in
that they are conditioned to be ready to kill everyone"

substitute 'anyone' for 'everyone'. shit is that where this all started?
ok fine, ill eat it. bad choice of a word. now read it again.
be ready to kill anyone. is that ludicrous? well i would call someone not prepared to kill anyone a complete idiot.

the misunderstanding we have here is you seem to believe that i think soldiers are wrong for being prepared in such a manner. incorrect assumption. i think thats smart. however the same mentallity that keeps them prepared is what knocks down respect for all iraqis. anyway...

Originally posted by BackFire
Is it a new one?

Regaurdless, I am done for the night because 1. I need to take a shower/play video games/masturbate and 2. Our discussion is dangerously close to becoming very redundant and that's generally where I stop the argument. I'm not one to feel the silly desire to get the last word in an argument just for the sake of getting the last word.

Though, I think this drinking game is a real winner.

i have some bad news:

1-the discussion was redundant pretty much from the start. i said something and you said "nu uh" and i sad "uh hu" and you said "NU UUUUH!!!!!" and i sad "UH HUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!!!!!"

2-you did have the last word, though didnt you? 😛
ok yeah, the irony that now i took the last word....i know

3-no, not a new episode. the one where meatwad wins superbowl tickets followed by the one where master shake tries to be a superhero "the drizzle" but thats ok, i dont think the new episodes are nearly as funny

Originally posted by Ronny
Alright, so I was watching this show called "Off to War" and its like.. a documentary show type thing where they follow around soilders with cameras, and the soldiers were making fun of the Iraqi citizens. It was terrible. Its like they think everyone was thinking about bombs and wanting to blow people up. Gawd.

GRRRR ****ing rednecks and their stupid red necks, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!

Not every soldier is like that.

Im not like that

Originally posted by Smallville
Not every soldier is like that.

Im not like that

You like Superman though, that's just as bad. 😛

Originally posted by Bardock42
You like Superman though, that's just as bad. 😛

Yeah, I know

😐

Originally posted by Smallville
Yeah, I know

😐

I think so....I mean how can any reasonable being not be a die hard fan of Batman?

Click Here

Wow... that was 2 years ago. What nostalgia

Originally posted by Smallville
Click Here

Wow... that was 2 years ago. What nostalgia

I thionk anyone that can pwn Superman should be considered a Superhero.