Heihachi vs. shredder

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It's true, but multiple arrows is << than what heihachi could do. We're talking about a guy who can compete with Paul phoenix brick basher feats and takes can take on multiple jacks (well... what mishima couldn't anyway). And i'm only comparing him to jack because of his armor and not his actual skills.

And other than that, what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone....w/o pis or plot device that is.

shredder stabs H fight takes an entirely different turn... it's not all about durability...

again shredder is on par with all four turtles, casey jones, splinter, and a triceraton... the four turtles alone were able to beat an army of the cyber foot soldiers so that's my comparison for your jack robot example...

when shredder got arrows in the face, it WAS without his armor.. all he had was his exosuit and he was still kicking muliple turtle ass all over the place,

hell even without his exosuit "the lil guy" started to suffocate raph before being pried off raphs face and thrown into a builing leveling explosion.

Originally posted by jinzin
shredder stabs H fight takes an entirely different turn... it's not all about durability...

it causes wounds, nothing heihachi has ever frowned upon. Guy got thrown into a large ravine, survived getting pounded by devil and devil jin, etc.

Originally posted by jinzin
again shredder is on par with all four turtles, casey jones, splinter, and a triceraton... the four turtles alone were able to beat an army of the cyber foot soldiers so that's my comparison for your jack robot example...

Leonardo defeated him

Originally posted by jinzin
when shredder got arrows in the face, it WAS without his armor.. all he had was his exosuit and he was still kicking muliple turtle ass all over the place,

I didn't say i was talking about him in armor. I read your statement clear and posted about the alien getting hit like that. Like i said also, Heihachi's punch >>> any arrow. And w/o his exosuit, can he also replicate that feat? If i'm not mistaken, all he does most of the time it happens is evade the turtles and ran away.

Originally posted by jinzin
hell even without his exosuit "the lil guy" started to suffocate raph before being pried off raphs face and thrown into a builing leveling explosion.

Suffocate won't really do much to heihachi. If he does that, Heihachi could just use his Mishima technique to conduct electricity to his body for the use of his strikes. It's gonna also take someone in direct contact with him if that happens.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it causes wounds, nothing heihachi has ever frowned upon. Guy got thrown into a large ravine, survived getting pounded by devil and devil jin, etc.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Leonardo defeated him

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I didn't say i was talking about him in armor. I read your statement clear and posted about the alien getting hit like that. Like i said also, Heihachi's punch >>> any arrow. And w/o his exosuit, can he also replicate that feat?

wouldn't he need his exosuit to replicate Martial arts hence replicate the feat in question? 😕

unless you mean surviving the arrows in the face... then yes...
also why would he have to? this isn't utrom without armor and exo vs. H so it really doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
If i'm not mistaken, all he does most of the time it happens is evade the turtles and ran away.

well you are mistaken, utrom shredhead usually takes the initiatie and it's the turtles who get put on the run, he officially creeps them out, and has only been defeated through plot devices out the ass...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Suffocate won't really do much to heihachi. If he does that, Heihachi could just use his Mishima technique to conduct electricity to his body for the use of his strikes. It's gonna also take someone in direct contact with him if that happens.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmm..........right...i cant say who wins...honest...

Hihatchis gonna win

Hihatchi will win

lol.. how can shredder fight against some old bastard who refuses to stay dead... *flashback to cinema of T5*

"Heihachi Mishima... is dead..."

Me : ... yeah right...

*cinematic of heihachi flying through the air, landing in a grave where he lays there for several weeks... then gets up and walks away*

Me : *faith in fighting games drops 30 points* 😐

😆 😂 😆 yeah....
me:......draw.....

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
lol.. how can shredder fight against some old bastard who refuses to stay dead... *flashback to cinema of T5*

"Heihachi Mishima... is dead..."

Me : ... yeah right...

*cinematic of heihachi flying through the air, landing in a grave where he lays there for several weeks... then gets up and walks away*

Me : *faith in fighting games drops 30 points* 😐

😆 😆

Originally posted by jinzin
brute force is not the same as being sliced to ribbons... 🤨

Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force?

Originally posted by jinzin
with the sword of tengu.. yawn

which isn't a standard equipment for him death

Originally posted by jinzin
wouldn't he need his exosuit to replicate Martial arts hence replicate the feat in question? 😕

unless you mean surviving the arrows in the face... then yes...
also why would he have to? this isn't utrom without armor and exo vs. H so it really doesn't matter.yawn

What are you smokin man? Did i say anything about replicating Martial arts? I'm saying that without the exo suit he's basically almost defenseless against Heihachi.

Originally posted by jinzin
well you are mistaken, utrom shredhead usually takes the initiatie and it's the turtles who get put on the run, he officially creeps them out, and has only been defeated through plot devices out the ass...

No, i'm not not. And how many times has he been actually defeated by the turtles? Once again, He got pwned by Leonardo who is obviously not equal to old man heihachi here. If it wasn't for the fact Leo didn't know then that the utrom didn't reside on the head, he could've killed Shredder by himself.

Originally posted by jinzin I'm not saying it would 🤨 you said this """what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone"""".. I gave you a feat that proved you wrong.. simple as. [/B]

If every debate can end like the way you are implying, then it's no use debating.

Go ahead, tell me other feats the utrom shredder had besides taking arrows to the face with his exo. You know, arrows requires force to pierce. Even granted Shredder has a tough face skin, he's not facing just any regular archer here.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
which isn't a standard equipment for him death

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What are you smokin man? Did i say anything about replicating Martial arts? I'm saying that without the exo suit he's basically almost defenseless against Heihachi.

you asked if he could reproduce the same feat (In which he used martial arts) without his exo... he can't replicate MA without his exo so it goes without saying that he can't reproduce the feat.. but again.. you resort to a "well if he didn't have this and if he didn't have that he wouldn't win" argument and that argument doesn't matter here... fact is no where in this thread is it even implied he wouldn't have his exo, or armor, or sword which are ALL standard equiptement for shredder.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
No, i'm not not. And how many times has he been actually defeated by the turtles?

without plot devices to help the turtles in abundance? NEVER....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Once again, He got pwned by Leonardo who is obviously not equal to old man heihachi here. If it wasn't for the fact Leo didn't know then that the utrom didn't reside on the head, he could've killed Shredder by himself..

and once again, he was defeated by leo who was using the sword of tengu... your point is moot...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Go ahead, tell me other feats the utrom shredder had besides taking arrows to the face with his exo. You know, arrows requires force to pierce. Even granted Shredder has a tough face skin, he's not facing just any regular archer here.

you asked for feats I gave them to you... and again he's not without his armor here so why keep insisting that he would be?

Originally posted by jinzin
concusive force, brute force... niether the same as being cut to ribbons, having appendages chopped off. etc etc...

Yeah, cut to ribbons....and i suppose the utron stood getting hit with a katana too?

And i hardly call getting caught by a c4 class explosion just brute force and neither does getting thrown into a ravine.........unless of course that ravine is smooth.

Originally posted by jinzin
for leo absolutely not, so why did you insist on bringing it up?

Is that too hard to figure. Cause he's inferior, that's why

Originally posted by jinzin
are you seriously that dense?

What's the matter getting frustrated and resulting to insults?

Originally posted by jinzin
you asked if he could reproduce the same feat (In which he used martial arts) without his exo... he can't replicate MA without his exo so it goes without saying that he can't reproduce the feat.. but again.. you resort to a "well if he didn't have this and if he didn't have that he wouldn't win" argument and that argument doesn't matter here... fact is no where in this thread is it even implied he wouldn't have his exo, or armor, or sword which are ALL standard equiptement for shredder.

Here we are again not reading the posts. When did i say anything about replicating Martial arts skill. I said feats and not skill such as his durability. And before you try to twist logic again, it was comment against the utron and him in the shredder armor.

Originally posted by jinzin
without plot devices to help the turtles in abundance? NEVER....

Which Shredder also has in abundance in the first place

Originally posted by jinzin
(you're really bad at ollowing trains of thought aren't you?)

and once again, he was defeated by leo who was using the sword of tengu... your point is moot...

Blah, blah, blah...

The sword of tengu's power didn't decapitate shredder. IIRC they went melee, something the sword doesn't grant you extra powers with. The only reason shredder survive is that leonardo didn't use the sword where the utron is and instead the head.

Originally posted by jinzin
you asked for feats I gave them to you... and again he's not without his armor here so why keep insisting that he would be?

And then i asked for more....which you can't give btw.

Also, did i say anything about him not being in his armor. If your argument pertains to the discussions about the utron, i recall saying/implying that Heihachi could take his armor out from the midsection and rip the utron there.

while its true that the utrom shredder did have arrows shot into his stomach, its impossible to tell exactly where on his body they imacted and how deep they penitrated. they could have hit his tenticles, or gone about a centrement into his skin. or even gone into his mouth and grased his toungue while causing no real damage. he was shot in the stomach, where the utrom resides, but thats as far as we know. it could be a huge feat with the arrow almost impaling him, but it could be a simple stratch with no real significance to his durability.

the only reason i think jack robots are brought up is their durability, becuase heihachi defeated them does not mean he could defeat he shredder, but it does mean he has the ability to damage him without a great deal of trouble.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Yeah, cut to ribbons....and i suppose the utron stood getting hit with a katana too?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And i hardly call getting caught by a c4 class explosion just brute force

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
and neither does getting thrown into a ravine.........unless of course that ravine is smooth.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Is that too hard to figure. Cause he's inferior, that's why.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What's the matter getting frustrated and resulting to insults?

honestly? yes and yes... your total lack of ability to follow a simple damn train of thought is aggrivating as all hell...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Here we are again not reading the posts. When did i say anything about replicating Martial arts skill. I said feats and not skill such as his durability. And before you try to twist logic again, it was comment against the utron and him in the shredder armor.

you must have a comprehension problem too... again.. the feats you asked him to replicate require martial arts.. he can't do martial arts without his exo.. is that really so hard to figure out? 🤨

You should specify which kind of feats first next time then... i have already given multiple feats of durability... I'm not twisting anything you just can't keep your shit straight.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Which Shredder also has in abundance in the first place

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Blah, blah, blah...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The sword of tengu's power didn't decapitate shredder. IIRC they went melee, something the sword doesn't grant you extra powers with. The only reason shredder survive is that leonardo didn't use the sword where the utron is and instead the head.[B]

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
[B]And then i asked for more....which you can't give btw.

well for one shredder's not shown outside of his exo all that much limiting the feats to give...

two he's been shown to survive the vacuum and cold of outerspace..

and three why the hell should I give any more? this thread has nothing to do with shredder without his suit, it's like if I asked you to give me feats of H without his arms and legs.. not only are you gonna have trouble finding some, but even if you did they would be pretty much moot for this debate seeing as he'll have his arms and legs in this fight... pffft.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Also, did i say anything about him not being in his armor. If your argument pertains to the discussions about the utron, i recall saying/implying that Heihachi could take his armor out from the midsection and rip the utron there.

I was simply giving info out there for those who were unaware....
H "MAY" be able to do that.. but it's just as simple for shredder to gut him silly..

Originally posted by jinzin
shredder has taken quite a bit of imalings and slashes (with armor on) but seeing how H doesn't have a katana and shredder DOES have blades, I don't see how this matters....

impalings and slashes that wasn't in the area the utron is. Heihachi doesn't need a Katana cause Tekken fighters are far superior even without. The only thing that came close were arrows that were probably stripped of their piercing force from the armor.

Originally posted by jinzin
how about concussive force?....

Or the flames..

Originally posted by jinzin
more of the same.

*Yawn* That's what i've telling you about your posts

Originally posted by jinzin
I know he's inferior.. that's my argument.. you've been trying to support that he can bring shredder down all by his lonesome...

😆 😆 😆 you really think that statement pertains to Heihachi. And yes, heihachi can and will take him down by his lonesome

Originally posted by jinzin
honestly? yes and yes... your total lack of ability to follow a simple damn train of thought is aggrivating as all hell...

It's alright, you don't have pretend being able to comprehend it...

Originally posted by jinzin
you must have a comprehension problem too... again.. the feats you asked him to replicate require martial arts.. he can't do martial arts without his exo.. is that really so hard to figure out? 🤨

You should specify which kind of feats first next time then... i have already given multiple feats of durability... I'm not twisting anything you just can't keep your shit straight.

😆 😆 😆 Did you even read the post. Funny blindspot you have there only seeing what you want to see. MA necessary for Durability? Bullshit.

And yes, W/o the exo, he's basically helpless. You seem to help the argument against him even more trying to defend him.

Originally posted by jinzin
not when he's going h2h with the turtles... not on average.. unless you consider his exo, and armor plot devices...

It happened and the turtles are a several notches below Heihachi.

Originally posted by jinzin
yep that's just about all you've been saying in this thread.

Probably cause that's what you deserve...

Originally posted by jinzin
I suppose you know exactly what the sword does and doesn't do then? in spite of it still being mysterious in the series... 🙄

Here we go. Keep on exaggerating. The ol' mysterious so untouchable logic.

Originally posted by jinzin
let's look at the facts.. every time shredder throws down with the turtles he kickes their collective ass... the one time he gets beat in a h2h fight is when leo has the sword of tengu which has outwordly powers yet to be explained..... and until they are.. leo hasn't beaten shredder 1on1 without a plot device in his favor.. something you also neglected was the fact that the sword gives a psychological advantage which can be everything in a fight.

Psychological advantage 😆

mysterious, psychological advantage, well that's 2 seriously flawed argument already...

Originally posted by jinzin
well for one shredder's not shown outside of his exo all that much limiting the feats to give...

Of course he isn't. And the time that he did, the only thing he tries to do is escape.

Originally posted by jinzin
two he's been shown to survive the vacuum and cold of outerspace..

And that's relevant here how?

Originally posted by jinzin
and three why the hell should I give any more? this thread has nothing to do with shredder without his suit, it's like if I asked you to give me feats of H without his arms and legs.. not only are you gonna have trouble finding some, but even if you did they would be pretty much moot for this debate seeing as he'll have his arms and legs in this fight... pffft.

If Heihachi ripped the utron from Shredder's abdomen, does this thread still has nothing to do with him not being on his suit? Your analogy is flawed simply because the shredder armor isn't invincible and the shredder being just an exo-skeleton being his weakness still stands.

Originally posted by jinzin
I was simply giving info out there for those who were unaware....
H "MAY" be able to do that.. but it's just as simple for shredder to gut him silly..

🙄

Tekken feats

1 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/b/tek3bry.htm

2 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/a/tekpaul.htm

3 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/a/tek2paul.htm

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
impalings and slashes that wasn't in the area the utron is. Heihachi doesn't need a Katana cause Tekken fighters are far superior even without. The only thing that came close were arrows that were probably stripped of their piercing force from the armor.

and the arrow was in that face, if you knew anything about utrom shredder, you would know that the utrom exo doesn't cover the lil guy in the stomach area....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Or the flames..

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 😆 😆 you really think that statement pertains to Heihachi. And yes, heihachi can and will take him down by his lonesome..

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it's alright, you don't have pretend being able to comprehend it...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 😆 😆 Did you even read the post. Funny blindspot you have there only seeing what you want to see. MA necessary for Durability? Bullshit.

KEEP UP...

it's necessary to produce an MA feat which is what you asked if he could do without his suit....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And yes, W/o the exo, he's basically helpless. You seem to help the argument against him even more trying to defend him.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It happened and the turtles are a several notches below Heihachi.

It happened when LEO had the sword of tengu EVERY other time they've tried to tengo with shred head on he's kicked their collective ass.. and as far as being several notches below... why because you say so?
these guys are EACH battle nexus champions.. they've simultaneously fought off an entire swat team and foot army singlehandedly , they take down dinosaurs with single blows, splinter KOed a dragon using ONE friggin leg and he's not even boasting the super strength/reflexes the turtles have... you're seriously underestimating these guys...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Here we go. Keep on exaggerating. The ol' mysterious so untouchable logic.

the facts are simple...
LEO only EVER beat shred h2h when he had the sword of tengu... every other time he's been beaten down rather handily...

you think the sword didn't make a difference I say the fact that that was the ONLY time shredder had someone get the better of him in h2h DOES make it make a difference... whether it was psychological or due to the ARMY OBLITERATING powers that the sword is said t possess as yet to be documented...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Psychological advantage 😆

I'm taking a wild guess and coming to the conclussion you know just as much about fighting as you do the tmnt don't you? ❌

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Of course he isn't. And the time that he did, the only thing he tries to do is escape.

do you ever get tired of making an asshat out of yourself... Ironically the one time he was completely on his own and out of the suit he almost killed rapheal and then it was the turtles that ran to get out of the impending explosion....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And that's relevant here how?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
If Heihachi ripped the utron from Shredder's abdomen, does this thread still has nothing to do with him not being on his suit? Your analogy is flawed simply because the shredder armor isn't invincible and the shredder being just an exo-skeleton being his weakness still stands.

How the hell is H going to know that shredder's an utrom? hell not even his closest henchmen knew he was an utrom until he took off earth to go get his vengeance on the utron race.

the possibility of H ripping him out from his exo are WAAAY slimmer than H being gutted by shredhead....

(At this point I would also like to adress that the shredder armor as been seen taking lasers at close range and having them simply deflect off him.)

and no my argument isn't flawed.. shredder being invincible IS NEVER an argument I've tried to make here.... and him being covered in armor in an exo suit is way less a weakness than having guts in this case... again.. shredder wins.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
🙄

right back atcha 🙄

H will heave a heart attack mid fight, like in T5 when I faught him as...that black guy. All the arguing really is usless...

Originally posted by jinzin
this proves you're talking out your ass here... TMNT have such precision that they can pierce the armor when nothing else can... even then they didn't get but an inch or two deep into the armor before their momentum stopped...

Can you guys spell BULLSHIT? Not only is it bullshit but also irrelevant considering the difference between Heihachi and the turtles in terms of physical stats and the damage they can inflict.

Originally posted by jinzin
and the arrow was in that face, if you knew anything about utrom shredder, you would know that the utrom exo doesn't cover the lil guy in the stomach area....

Riiiiiiiight

Originally posted by jinzin
seeing as he was set aflame after the initial explosion.

And the burns....

Originally posted by jinzin
lol.. trains of thought.. try to keep up... you were arguing for leonardo in this part of the debate remember.. how it pretains to H? I don't know you're the one who brought it up....

actually I can comprehend that you can't follow trains of thought just fine... hell you just proved me right above.

Trains of thought? what trains of thought? You mean those irrelevant facts that you have been blurting out? pffft

Originally posted by jinzin
TRAINS OF THOUGHT...

KEEP UP...

it's necessary to produce an MA feat which is what you asked if he could do without his suit....

=shit

Why would you need to produce information about something remotely different from the one that i was talking about?

Originally posted by jinzin
HE HAS HIS ARMOR. so your point is null and void.. but his near victory over rapheal out of his armor and his reputation as the most dangerous criminal in the universe certainly would lead one to believe that "helpless" probably isn't a word to describe him....

And did i say anything about him not having the armor? Near victory 😆

And btw, raphael <<< Heihachi

Originally posted by jinzin
It happened when LEO had the sword of tengu EVERY other time they've tried to tengo with shred head on he's kicked their collective ass.. and as far as being several notches below... why because you say so?
these guys are EACH battle nexus champions.. they've simultaneously fought off an entire swat team and foot army singlehandedly , they take down dinosaurs with single blows, splinter KOed a dragon using ONE friggin leg and he's not even boasting the super strength/reflexes the turtles have... you're seriously underestimating these guys...

Once again, you accept simple facts. There is nothing to indicate the sword of Tengu does anything to empower Leonardo, to boost his skill or to even help him anywhere in melee combat. The only thing we've seen from it was blasting a concussive force emanating from it and nothing more.

SWAT TEAM <<< Heihachi
FOOT ARMY <<< Heihachi

But heck, not only that but they do it mostly with teamwork and solely.

The dragon is the only thing that remotely comes close but, one blow. Don't friggin kid me. And you seem to indicate even moreso a lack of logic by telling me he doesn't even have super strength/reflexes to do the job. If he doesn't have those, then tell me how he did it. The only only thing that would remotely be feasable enough to accept would be weak areas and that would amount more to skill rather than physical stats, something Tekken combatants overly exceeds them.

Originally posted by jinzin
the facts are simple...
LEO only EVER beat shred h2h when he had the sword of tengu... every other time he's been beaten down rather handily...

A loss is a loss and it happened. Not only that, but before Leo even manage to defeat him, Shredders lackeys always fight them first along with everytime they met. Then he comes in afterward often a grudgingly difficult battle they've fought. Read above on my posts telling you the Sword of Tengu doesn't help that much.

Originally posted by jinzin
you think the sword didn't make a difference I say the fact that that was the ONLY time shredder had someone get the better of him in h2h DOES make it make a difference... whether it was psychological or due to the ARMY OBLITERATING powers that the sword is said t possess as yet to be documented...

That what you say, and i don't really buy it considering the lack of proof.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm taking a wild guess and coming to the conclussion you know just as much about fighting as you do the tmnt don't you? ❌

Actually i do know about them and watched their episodes before and wouldn't be debating this if i didn't. I could say the same thing for you regarding Tekken.

Originally posted by jinzin
do you ever get tired of making an asshat out of yourself... Ironically the one time he was completely on his own and out of the suit he almost killed rapheal and then it was the turtles that ran to get out of the impending explosion....

Asshat? how colorful....did you make it yourself?

Originally posted by jinzin
I was obliging your request.. you tell me how it's relivant... you asked for durability feats.. his body can survive the vacuum of space indefinitely.... that's a feat jeesh.. FOLLOW ALONG....

vaccum of space? that's the best you've got? Sheesh.

Well thank you for Obliging to my request then...

Originally posted by jinzin
How the hell is H going to know that shredder's an utrom? hell not even his closest henchmen knew he was an utrom until he took off earth to go get his vengeance on the utron race.

He doesn't. Considering the probability of a godfist to connect in Shredder midsection, that chances of him puncturing it and going all the way to Utron is almost pretty certain.

Originally posted by jinzin
the possibility of H ripping him out from his exo are WAAAY slimmer than H being gutted by shredhead....

Riiiight.

Originally posted by jinzin
(At this point I would also like to adress that the shredder armor as been seen taking lasers at close range and having them simply deflect off him.)

Very good. Now how does Laser and heat come into play here?

Originally posted by jinzin
and no my argument isn't flawed.. shredder being invincible IS NEVER an argument I've tried to make here.... and him being covered in armor in an exo suit is way less a weakness than having guts in this case... again.. shredder wins.

Really? his armor has been damaged before and has a weakness of being just an exo. I don't see why not.

Originally posted by jinzin
right back atcha 🙄

Whatever 😗

If all you can do is roll your eyes, and ignore points than there's not much point in this endless drivle...

fact is:
- H IS a human, his HUMAN stamina puttered while fighting those jacks.... shredder has a big advantage in that his stamina is indefinite...

-all the "irrelevant" feats I've brough up can be traced back to you having requested them.

-you don't know anything about fighting if you can't grasp the importance of a psychological advantage..

-the sword of tengu does more than use concussive blasts, it nullified the elements and the magic they wield which is extremely powerful.

- the turtles have yet to beat shredder ONCE in h2h without the sword of tengu.

-splinter took down the dragon with a single kick.. using skill.. it's sad how unfamiliar you are with such matters.. it's not that big of a feat in tmnt-verse...

-Heihachi is 80 years old, and it was a miracle he survived any of the previously mentioned feats.. and even then he only just survived.. it didn't instantaniously walk away from either of those.

-h is not >>> an army of foot ninjas including foot elite.. sorry but that's the biggest load of bull you said yet.. every damn foot is said to be 12x that of the best trained cia, fbi, etc etc... elite foot are equivelent to 20 foot ninjas... shredder's>>>>> army of foot tech ninjas and cyber foot.. I can't possibly see how H even compares.. even though the jack robot battle was impressive he did have Kazuya's help...