Heihachi vs. shredder

Originally posted by jinzin
If all you can do is roll your eyes, and ignore points than there's not much point in this endless drivle...

fact is:
- H IS a human, his HUMAN stamina puttered while fighting those jacks.... shredder has a big advantage in that his stamina is indefinite...

😆 The first fact you've mentioned and it's already flawed. He is human, but that's funny that you're actually comparing him to one. Tekken's reality hardly adheres to common logic just like most universes. It isn't that hard to accept a human has a high metahuman stats considering it's feasable to attain in their universe just like many others.

Originally posted by jinzin
-all the "irrelevant" feats I've brough up can be traced back to you having requested them.

See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it?

Originally posted by jinzin
-you don't know anything about fighting if you can't grasp the importance of a psychological advantage..

😆 😆 😆 . You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation.

Originally posted by jinzin
-the sword of tengu does more than use concussive blasts, it nullified the elements and the magic they wield which is extremely powerful.

Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well.

Originally posted by jinzin
- the turtles have yet to beat shredder ONCE in h2h without the sword of tengu.

And the turtles have yet to encounter Shredder by his lonesome without having to worry about Shredder's footsoldiers and bodyguards and encountering them beforehand. Sounds to me the turtles aren't anywhere Fresh everytime they face him.

But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles

Originally posted by jinzin
-splinter took down the dragon with a single kick.. using skill.. it's sad how unfamiliar you are with such matters.. it's not that big of a feat in tmnt-verse...

Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist 😆

I can't help but laugh at that. Not a big feat?......hahahahaha.

But I won't delve to that any further since you've contradicted from the previous post.

Originally posted by jinzin
-Heihachi is 80 years old, and it was a miracle he survived any of the previously mentioned feats.. and even then he only just survived.. it didn't instantaniously walk away from either of those.

he also:

-miraculously survived getting thrown into a deep ravine by Kazuya
-miraculously winning a battle against a supernatural entity, Devil
-from getting assimilated by Ogre to fuse with him
-from getting beaten and smashed to a wall by Devil Jin
-from surviving the mini-nuke level explosion in honshu

That's pretty good for a 80 year old senile geezer like him.

Originally posted by jinzin
-h is not >>> an army of foot ninjas including foot elite.. sorry but that's the biggest load of bull you said yet.. every damn foot is said to be 12x that of the best trained cia, fbi, etc etc... elite foot are equivelent to 20 foot ninjas... shredder's>>>>> army of foot tech ninjas and cyber foot.. I can't possibly see how H even compares.. even though the jack robot battle was impressive he did have Kazuya's help...

Oh boy, what a load of exaggerative nonsense. So i guess that 12x better than the best trained cia, fbi, etc, etc couldn't handle 4 mutant turtles, 1 old mutant rat, 1 guy with sport equipment as a weapon and a reporter. Real nice.

And yes, he did have Kazuya's help. But of course, you do know just how tough a single Jack even at his initial stages is right? And they would've won too if Kazuya didn't betray Heihachi.

And let me rephrase that

Heihachi is >>>>> than any foot soldier or even dozens of them.

See there, i just added some more >

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It's true, but multiple arrows is << than what heihachi could do. We're talking about a guy who can compete with Paul phoenix brick basher feats and takes can take on multiple jacks (well... what mishima couldn't anyway). And i'm only comparing him to jack because of his armor and not his actual skills.

And other than that, what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone....w/o pis or plot device that is.

I'll have to make a note of that, and impede Ironman in the future to fight only as Tony Stark...

Or we could bot hstop grasping at damned straws and drop irrealevent points.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force?

You know what it's obvious with your insisted removal of the exo-armor Shredder has to be handicapped for Heihachi to stand a chance. So on even level grounds Shredder would win.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 😆 😆 . You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation.

Oh look that's now.

Or you know you can't lecture us on ... anything until you holed a degree in it.

Do you hold a degree in TMNT History or Tekken History?

No? Well I guess if you hold the philosophy of

"You can lecture me about this when you hold a degree in such an occupation."

You'd best shut your yap. 😉

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles

Nice circular reasoning you have there. Invalid and thusly false but nice none the less

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist 😆

Originally posted by Creshosk

You're using your own assumptions as support to your arguments?

Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

Originally posted by samishe
Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

turtles hit guys so hard that they send limp bodies through brick walls... they PUNCH OUT DINOSAURS... how is that not a comparible feat?

Originally posted by samishe
Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

turtles would also have their weapons.. just as shredder has his armor... arguing a strict h2h match is irrational.

Originally posted by jinzin
turtles hit guys so hard that they send limp bodies through brick walls... they PUNCH OUT DINOSAURS... how is that not a comparible feat?

Punching Dinosours? Kazuya tore dinosours apart with his bare hand. And Heihachi defeated Kazuya. And even breaking through walls isn't impressing at all comparing to Heihachi.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 The first fact you've mentioned and it's already flawed. He [b]is human, but that's funny that you're actually comparing him to one. Tekken's reality hardly adheres to common logic just like most universes. It isn't that hard to accept a human has a high metahuman stats considering it's feasable to attain in their universe just like many others.[/B]

oh so it's oky for Hiehachi to produce super human feats in spite of being human? bu not for anyone in the TMNT verse?....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The dragon is the only thing that remotely comes close but, one blow. Don't friggin kid me. And you seem to indicate even moreso a lack of logic by telling me he doesn't even have super strength/reflexes to do the job.

Anyway's you missed the point... hiehachi MAY be able to produce feats of superhuman levels but his stamina still gives out because he's HUMAN... shredder's doesn't plain and simple.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 😆 😆 . You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well.

what the sword produces>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>simple concussive force as you claimed.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And the turtles have yet to encounter Shredder by his lonesome without having to worry about Shredder's footsoldiers and bodyguards and encountering them beforehand. Sounds to me the turtles aren't anywhere Fresh everytime they face him..

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist 😆

well..... yeah....

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjakick2wi.jpg

honestly, how long CAN you go without sticking your foot in your mouth? it's pathetic.. really....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I can't help but laugh at that. Not a big feat?......hahahahaha.

It would seem laughing is ALL you can do when faced against a superior argument...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
but I won't delve to that any further since you've contradicted from the previous post.

don't point out the contradiction or anything just claim I've made one eand hope that that's enough... 🙄

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he also:

-miraculously survived getting thrown into a deep ravine by Kazuya.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-miraculously winning a battle against a supernatural entity, Devil.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
--from getting assimilated by Ogre to fuse with him.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
---from getting beaten and smashed to a wall by Devil Jin.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-from surviving the mini-nuke level explosion in honshu

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-That's pretty good for a 80 year old senile geezer like him.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, what a load of exaggerative nonsense. So i guess that 12x better than the best trained cia, fbi, etc, etc couldn't handle 4 mutant turtles, 1 old mutant rat, 1 guy with sport equipment as a weapon and a reporter. Real nice.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And yes, he did have Kazuya's help. But of course, you do know just how tough a single Jack even at his initial stages is right? And they would've won too if Kazuya didn't betray Heihachi..

you're aware how tough cyber foot ninjas are right? TMNT>>>>>cybers...
shredder>>>TMNT... that simple.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Heihachi is >>>>> than any foot soldier or even dozens of them...

Originally posted by samishe
Punching Dinosours? Kazuya tore dinosours apart with his bare hand. And Heihachi defeated Kazuya. And even breaking through walls isn't impressing at all comparing to Heihachi.

robot dinosaurs.. in a non canon cartoon.... hell if we're allowed to use whatever media wewant though.. hell I choose anime shredder.. he's a threat on a planetary level... so long hiehachi...

Originally posted by jinzin
robot dinosaurs.. in a non canon cartoon.... hell if we're allowed to use whatever media wewant though.. hell I choose anime shredder.. he's a threat on a planetary level... so long hiehachi...

If you wanna go by games only ok.

WEAKEST punch from Heihachi is capable of breaking through meter thick wall. His hardest punch is twenty times stronger than his weakest punch. So his hardest punch is capable of killing Shredder instantly.

Originally posted by samishe
If you wanna go by games only ok.

WEAKEST punch from Heihachi is capable of breaking through meter thick wall. His hardest punch is twenty times stronger than his weakest punch. So his hardest punch is capable of killing Shredder instantly.

LOL okay we go by video games then.. shredder transforms into supes and STILL kills hiehachi with all his strange and random superpowers...

Originally posted by jinzin
LOL okay we go by video games then.. shredder transforms into supes and STILL kills hiehachi with all his strange and random superpowers...

Mmmm... isn't it from that old dendy game? I thought he transformed because of a mutagen?

Originally posted by samishe
Mmmm... isn't it from that old dendy game? I thought he transformed because of a mutagen?

naw.. in a number of th SNES and sega games he transformed at the end of the game at will...

his super powers included
super strength, super speed, levitation. warping, napalm attack (fire came out of the ground), random lighting bolts that rained from the heavens, and his MA skills...

Your knowledge of old snes games is something unbelievable😄

Still i doubt he could take combo from Heihachi and stay alive.
Oh and i used to watch that old turtles cartoon.

Originally posted by samishe
Your knowledge of old snes games is something unbelievable😄

Still i doubt he could take combo from Heihachi and stay alive.
Oh and i used to watch that old turtles cartoon.

what do you based that doubt on? I mean arguing against the classic turtles is almost worse than arguing against the current ones... classic ninja turtles tore robotic machines apart with their bare hands, dodged continuous lazer fire on a consistant basis and punched rock soldiers from demension x unconsious....

Originally posted by jinzin
what do you based that doubt on? I mean arguing against the classic turtles is almost worse than arguing against the current ones... classic ninja turtles tore robotic machines apart with their bare hands, dodged continuous lazer fire on a consistant basis and punched rock soldiers from demension x unconsious....

...And Feng Wei desatroyed entire mountain with his bare hands. Still he lost the Tekken tournament.

canon? nope...

Originally posted by jinzin
canon? nope...

I bet you, i bet you that if Feng will appear in tekken 6 he'll posses those Dragon powers and still will lose the tournament.
BTW if he didn't won the tournament it still doesn't mean that video isn't canon.

Like King's ending in tekken 4, or Brian's ending, or many others.

and it's not factual evidence until it's later confirmed by another game...

Originally posted by jinzin
and it's not factual evidence until it's later confirmed by another game...

May be not. But it doesn't matter, those dragon powers didn't made him much stronger than he already was. I'm going according to game. If he could break through walls with minimum efforts i believe if he gives his best punch he could break mountain even without those powers.