Namor is the second oldest hero in comics. Only one that predates him is Superman.
Tell those people to check to first issues one more. Aquaman is not the orginal sea hero.
Hell, Namor even had telepathy before him. Namor is also the first character to have telepathic powers. Namor also flew before Superman did. That makes him the first character to have flying powers too.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor is the second oldest hero in comics. Only one that predates him is Superman.Tell those people to check to first issues one more. Aquaman is not the orginal sea hero.
Hell, Namor even had telepathy before him. Namor is also the first character to have telepathic powers. Namor also flew before Superman did. That makes him the first character to have flying powers too.
Could Namor kick aqaumans ass
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
2n1 #28 doesn't count, since Namor was not fighting nearly to his fullest. And was trying to talk sense to Thing. And was cheapshotted.Sorry.
Didn't really help him much though, did it?
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4425/thelp4uv.gifSorry, all you two have is one issue. While I have dozens.
😆 😆 😆
What is it that makes 2n1 #28 not count because "YOU" say Namor wasn't fighting to his fullest... 😆 😆 😆
Does Namor throw his battle cry "IMPERIUS REX" out alot when he's not really trying in a fight...?
I'd REALLY like to see the dozens of issue #'s that you have that Namor has kicked Bens ass in a completed fight...
💃
Originally posted by Tony Stark
😆 😆 😆What is it that makes 2n1 #28 not count because "YOU" say Namor wasn't fighting to his fullest... 😆 😆 😆
Does Namor throw his battle cry "IMPERIUS REX" out alot when he's not really trying in a fight...?
I'd REALLY like to see the dozens of issue #'s that you have that Namor has kicked Bens ass in a completed fight...
💃
*sigh*
When Namor said Imperious Rex, they were already on the plan. Moot point. All those laughing faces don't make your argument sound better - especially when you are wrong.
And if you like it or not, Namor didn't clearly want to fight at all from the beginning, and was trying to talk sense into Thing during the entire match. Not fighting to his fullest.
And Namor has more wins over Ben then Ben has for Namor, and in other of their battles he has upper hand 80% of the time. Namor simply is better then Ben in most things.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I personally don't think thing was ever a 5 toner.
These stats are from the 80's...
😄
INFORMATION
Thing
Real Name: Benjamin Jacob Grimm
Occupation: Professional adventurer; former test pilot, adventurer and wrestler
Identity: Publicly known
Legal Status: Citizen of the United States with no criminal record
Other Aliases: None
Place of Birth: New York City
Marital Status: Single
Known Realatives: Daniel (father, deceased), Elsie (mother, deceased), Daniel Jr. (brother, deceased), Jacob ("Jake," uncle), Alyce (aunt, deceased), Pentunia ("Penny," aunt, Jacob's second wife)
Group Affiliation: Fantastic Four, formerly Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation
Base of Operations: Pier Four, New York City
First Appearance: FANTASTIC FOUR #1
History: Benjamin J. Grimm was born on Yancy Street on Manhattan's Lower East Side, where he grew up in poverty. His father, an alcoholic, was unable to hold a job. Much of the family's income came from Grimm's older brother, Daniel, who obtained funds illegally as leader of the Yancy Street Gang. Grimm, who idolized his brother, became embittered against the world when Daniel was killed in a battle between rival gangs. Grimm was only 8 years old at the time; within 10 years, he had succeeded his brother as leader of the Yancy Street Gang. After his parents died, Grimm was taken in by his Uncle Jake, who had risen from poverty to become a successful physician. At first, Grimm resisted his new guardians' kindness toward him. But eventually, he came to return their love. He left his life with the Yancy Street Gang behind, entered high school, and became a football star there. While he was a senior at Stuyvesant High School, Ben received a football scholarship to Empire State University.
Grimm's freshman year roommate was the brilliant science student Reed Richards, who became his closest friend. During their first meeting Richards confided in Grimm his intention someday to build a starship for interstellar travel. Grimm jokingly promised that he would pilot the starship for Richards if he ever built it.
Upon graduating Grimm went into the U.S. Air Force and became a highly skilled test pilot and astronaut. In the meantime Richards went ahead with his project to build a starship, using both his own fortune and funding from the Federal government. On the day that Grimm left the military, Richards came to Grimm to remind him of his promise to pilot the starship.
Richards' project was based in Central City, California. When the federal government threatened to withdraw its funding from Richards' project, Richards decided to take the starship on a test flight himself as soon as possible. Grimm was opposed to the idea, warning that the starship's shielding might prove to be inadequate protection from intense radiation storms. Nevertheless, Grimm was persuaded to serve as pilot, and Richards' future wife Susan Storm and her adolescent brother Johnny insisted on accompanying Richards' as passengers. The four friends stole onto the launch facility, entered the starship, and launched it. They intended to travel through hyperspace to another solar system and back. However, unknown to Richards, a solar flare caused Earth's Van Allen radiation belts to be filled temporarily with unprecedented (as far as is known), ultra-high levels of cosmic radiation. Since the ship was designed to shield against ordinary levels of radiation, the cabin interior was subject to intense cosmic ray bombardment which irradiated the four passengers and wrought havoc on the ship's controls. Pilot Grimm was forced to abort the flight and return to Earth.
Over the years the mutations to the Things body have continued to progress slowly. The composition of his epidermis changed from an abnormally dense, somewhat lumpy but still comparatively smooth hide to a flexible, interlocking network of rock-like lumps. His superhuman strength increased considerably over time. Early in Grimm's life as the Thing, he would sometimes revert to his original human form unexpectedly. But neither these changes nor those induced by Richards in his efforts to turn Grimm back to human form ever proved to be permanent. Eventually Grimm always reverted to his monstrous, superhumanly powerful form. Appalled by his appearance, Grimm was at first filled with anger at his situation, but he eventually became resigned to his fate, although he continued to be disturbed by his appearance and to hope for a means of regaining his human form that would last. Instrumental in helping Grimm to adjust to his life as the Thing was the blind sculptress Alicia Masters, with whom Grimm fell in love. Reed Richards eventually discovered that Grimm had reached a state in which he could transform from his Thing form to human form and back at will. However, Grimm feared that Alicia Masters would only love him as the Thing, for she had not known him before his initial transformation. Hence, Grimm suffered from a subconscious mental block that prevented him from becoming human.
The relationship between Grimm and Masters was suffering from strains when Grimm was transported to the distant "Battleworld" by the alien Beyonder for the first of the so-called "secret wars." On that planet Grimm found himself able to change to human form and back. Concealing his discovery of Grimm's mental block for fear of hurting his feelings. Richards claimed that the nature of the planet itself was somehow responsible for Grimm's ability to transform back and forth. Once the "secret war" was over, Grimm remained on the planet for months. Eventually, however, he found himself trapped once again in his monstrous form, unable to change to human form, and he returned to Earth. There Grimm learned that his teammate Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters had become lovers, and that Reed Richards had concealed the information about his mental block from him. Furious and distraught, Grimm quit the Fanatic Four. He worked for a time as a superhumanly strong wrestler for the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation, and also participated in missions with the West Coast Avengers.
Grimm was about to accept membership in the West Coast Avengers when he began to undergo further mutation, becoming, at least in his own mind, still more grotesque. Greatly disturbed, Grimm journeyed to Monster Island, where he had first encountered his foe, the Mole Man. Now, however, the Mole Man befriended the Thing and welcomed him into the society he had organized in his underground realm, composed of physically ugly people like himself who had believed themselves to be outcasts in the surface world. Grimm agreed to help the Mole Man in his attempt to use an earth shifting machine to raise a small continent in the Pacific Ocean to serve as a homeland for the Mole Man's society. While Grimm lived in the Mole Man's realm, his most recent mutations went into remission, leaving him looking little different than before these recent mutations had begun.
Height: 6 ft.
Weight: 500 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: (in fluman form) Brown, (as the Thing) None
Unusual features: The Thing's body is covered with an orange, flexible, rock-like hide. The Thing has no apparent neck. He has only four fingers (including the thumb) on each hand and four toes on each foot. The increase in the volume of his fingers has not decreased his manual dexterity. His skin is apparently susceptible to "drying "or what in a normal human being would be called loss of skin oil, for his skin can be "chipped" under certain circumstances. The Thing has no outer ear structure.
Strength Level: The Thing possesses superhuman strength, enabling him to lift (press) 85 tons. The Thing's strength grew considerably over the initial years of his career. At one early point in his life as the Thing, for example, he could only lift (press) 5 tons.
Known Superhuman Powers: The Thing possesses superhuman strength, endurance, and durability. The mutagenic, specific-frequency cosmic ray bombardment caused his musculature, bone structure, internal organ composition, soft tissue structure, and skin to greatly increase in toughness and density. The Thing can exert himself at high levels for about an hour before the build-up of fatigue poisons in his blood impairs his strength. His reflexes have remained at their above average human levels despite his greater mass. The Thing's lungs are of greater volume and efficiency than a normal man's, enabling him to hold his breath underwater for up to nine minutes, The Thing's five senses can withstand greater amounts of sensory stimuli than he could when he was a normal human being, with no reduced sensitivity.
The Thing's body is able to withstand extremes of temperature from -75° to 800° Fahrenheit for up to an hour before exposure or heat prostration occurs. He can withstand the explosive effects of armor-piercing bazooka shells (15 pounds of high explosives) against his skin with no injury. He is still susceptible to colds, disease, and emotional stress.
Unlike in the case of the Hulk, the Thing has suffered no loss of intelligence or change in personality in his transformation into his monstrous form.
Abilities: The Thing is a brilliant pilot of aircraft. He has had a great deal of experience at hand-to-hand combat, and was a formidable opponent in physical combat even before becoming the Thing.
😄
He was overpowering Namor to bring him out of the ocean as a CL5 as i stated...
What do you think he would do to him today at a CL100...?
Seafood is one of Ben's favorites.
And i'm still waiting on the dozens of issue #'s showing Namor conclusively defeating Ben in completed fights. (DC please ablige me)
😄
Originally posted by Tony StarkThat's from the Marvel directory website. I will believe it if you can show a scan from a handbook or something official from Marvel. Class 5 thing should not be able to duke it out with Hulk and pull Namor out of the water.
These stats are from the 80's...😄
INFORMATION
ThingReal Name: Benjamin Jacob Grimm
Occupation: Professional adventurer; former test pilot, adventurer and wrestler
Identity: Publicly known
Legal Status: Citizen of the United States with no criminal record
Other Aliases: None
Place of Birth: New York City
Marital Status: Single
Known Realatives: Daniel (father, deceased), Elsie (mother, deceased), Daniel Jr. (brother, deceased), Jacob ("Jake," uncle), Alyce (aunt, deceased), Pentunia ("Penny," aunt, Jacob's second wife)
Group Affiliation: Fantastic Four, formerly Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation
Base of Operations: Pier Four, New York City
First Appearance: FANTASTIC FOUR #1History: Benjamin J. Grimm was born on Yancy Street on Manhattan's Lower East Side, where he grew up in poverty. His father, an alcoholic, was unable to hold a job. Much of the family's income came from Grimm's older brother, Daniel, who obtained funds illegally as leader of the Yancy Street Gang. Grimm, who idolized his brother, became embittered against the world when Daniel was killed in a battle between rival gangs. Grimm was only 8 years old at the time; within 10 years, he had succeeded his brother as leader of the Yancy Street Gang. After his parents died, Grimm was taken in by his Uncle Jake, who had risen from poverty to become a successful physician. At first, Grimm resisted his new guardians' kindness toward him. But eventually, he came to return their love. He left his life with the Yancy Street Gang behind, entered high school, and became a football star there. While he was a senior at Stuyvesant High School, Ben received a football scholarship to Empire State University.
Grimm's freshman year roommate was the brilliant science student Reed Richards, who became his closest friend. During their first meeting Richards confided in Grimm his intention someday to build a starship for interstellar travel. Grimm jokingly promised that he would pilot the starship for Richards if he ever built it.
Upon graduating Grimm went into the U.S. Air Force and became a highly skilled test pilot and astronaut. In the meantime Richards went ahead with his project to build a starship, using both his own fortune and funding from the Federal government. On the day that Grimm left the military, Richards came to Grimm to remind him of his promise to pilot the starship.
Richards' project was based in Central City, California. When the federal government threatened to withdraw its funding from Richards' project, Richards decided to take the starship on a test flight himself as soon as possible. Grimm was opposed to the idea, warning that the starship's shielding might prove to be inadequate protection from intense radiation storms. Nevertheless, Grimm was persuaded to serve as pilot, and Richards' future wife Susan Storm and her adolescent brother Johnny insisted on accompanying Richards' as passengers. The four friends stole onto the launch facility, entered the starship, and launched it. They intended to travel through hyperspace to another solar system and back. However, unknown to Richards, a solar flare caused Earth's Van Allen radiation belts to be filled temporarily with unprecedented (as far as is known), ultra-high levels of cosmic radiation. Since the ship was designed to shield against ordinary levels of radiation, the cabin interior was subject to intense cosmic ray bombardment which irradiated the four passengers and wrought havoc on the ship's controls. Pilot Grimm was forced to abort the flight and return to Earth.
Over the years the mutations to the Things body have continued to progress slowly. The composition of his epidermis changed from an abnormally dense, somewhat lumpy but still comparatively smooth hide to a flexible, interlocking network of rock-like lumps. His superhuman strength increased considerably over time. Early in Grimm's life as the Thing, he would sometimes revert to his original human form unexpectedly. But neither these changes nor those induced by Richards in his efforts to turn Grimm back to human form ever proved to be permanent. Eventually Grimm always reverted to his monstrous, superhumanly powerful form. Appalled by his appearance, Grimm was at first filled with anger at his situation, but he eventually became resigned to his fate, although he continued to be disturbed by his appearance and to hope for a means of regaining his human form that would last. Instrumental in helping Grimm to adjust to his life as the Thing was the blind sculptress Alicia Masters, with whom Grimm fell in love. Reed Richards eventually discovered that Grimm had reached a state in which he could transform from his Thing form to human form and back at will. However, Grimm feared that Alicia Masters would only love him as the Thing, for she had not known him before his initial transformation. Hence, Grimm suffered from a subconscious mental block that prevented him from becoming human.
The relationship between Grimm and Masters was suffering from strains when Grimm was transported to the distant "Battleworld" by the alien Beyonder for the first of the so-called "secret wars." On that planet Grimm found himself able to change to human form and back. Concealing his discovery of Grimm's mental block for fear of hurting his feelings. Richards claimed that the nature of the planet itself was somehow responsible for Grimm's ability to transform back and forth. Once the "secret war" was over, Grimm remained on the planet for months. Eventually, however, he found himself trapped once again in his monstrous form, unable to change to human form, and he returned to Earth. There Grimm learned that his teammate Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters had become lovers, and that Reed Richards had concealed the information about his mental block from him. Furious and distraught, Grimm quit the Fanatic Four. He worked for a time as a superhumanly strong wrestler for the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation, and also participated in missions with the West Coast Avengers.
Grimm was about to accept membership in the West Coast Avengers when he began to undergo further mutation, becoming, at least in his own mind, still more grotesque. Greatly disturbed, Grimm journeyed to Monster Island, where he had first encountered his foe, the Mole Man. Now, however, the Mole Man befriended the Thing and welcomed him into the society he had organized in his underground realm, composed of physically ugly people like himself who had believed themselves to be outcasts in the surface world. Grimm agreed to help the Mole Man in his attempt to use an earth shifting machine to raise a small continent in the Pacific Ocean to serve as a homeland for the Mole Man's society. While Grimm lived in the Mole Man's realm, his most recent mutations went into remission, leaving him looking little different than before these recent mutations had begun.
Height: 6 ft.
Weight: 500 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: (in fluman form) Brown, (as the Thing) None
Unusual features: The Thing's body is covered with an orange, flexible, rock-like hide. The Thing has no apparent neck. He has only four fingers (including the thumb) on each hand and four toes on each foot. The increase in the volume of his fingers has not decreased his manual dexterity. His skin is apparently susceptible to "drying "or what in a normal human being would be called loss of skin oil, for his skin can be "chipped" under certain circumstances. The Thing has no outer ear structure.Strength Level: The Thing possesses superhuman strength, enabling him to lift (press) 85 tons. The Thing's strength grew considerably over the initial years of his career. At one early point in his life as the Thing, for example, he could only lift (press) 5 tons.
Known Superhuman Powers: The Thing possesses superhuman strength, endurance, and durability. The mutagenic, specific-frequency cosmic ray bombardment caused his musculature, bone structure, internal organ composition, soft tissue structure, and skin to greatly increase in toughness and density. The Thing can exert himself at high levels for about an hour before the build-up of fatigue poisons in his blood impairs his strength. His reflexes have remained at their above average human levels despite his greater mass. The Thing's lungs are of greater volume and efficiency than a normal man's, enabling him to hold his breath underwater for up to nine minutes, The Thing's five senses can withstand greater amounts of sensory stimuli than he could when he was a normal human being, with no reduced sensitivity.
The Thing's body is able to withstand extremes of temperature from -75° to 800° Fahrenheit for up to an hour before exposure or heat prostration occurs. He can withstand the explosive effects of armor-piercing bazooka shells (15 pounds of high explosives) against his skin with no injury. He is still susceptible to colds, disease, and emotional stress.
Unlike in the case of the Hulk, the Thing has suffered no loss of intelligence or change in personality in his transformation into his monstrous form.
Abilities: The Thing is a brilliant pilot of aircraft. He has had a great deal of experience at hand-to-hand combat, and was a formidable opponent in physical combat even before becoming the Thing.
😄
He was overpowering Namor to bring him out of the ocean as a CL5 as i stated...
What do you think he would do to him today at a CL100...?
Seafood is one of Ben's favorites.
And i'm still waiting on the dozens of issue #'s showing Namor conclusively defeating Ben in completed fights. (DC please ablige me)
😄
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossusunderwater.jpg
(Colossus punches through a steel wall underwater)
When judging the influence certain fights between characters should have we must keep in mind not only the age of the issue but also the way the characters are portrayed. Thankfully, the sophistication of comics has increased over the years. However, this necessarily means that there was a time when comics were considered (even by their writers) to be little more than entertainment for a young audience.
This necessitated putting logic and reason behind telling an appealing story to their audience. Earlier comics may not withstand the scrutiny that modern fans would subject moder comics to. If having the Thing beat Namor fitted the story, then I doubt the older writers would have checked to see what strength class the two characters were.
This ties into the way characters are portrayed in the fight. Given the fact that Marvel has been publishing comics for decades many of their characters have fought each other multiple times with varying outcomes for the fights. If we are to make any sense of this long and sometimes contradictory history, we must take a more objective view and admit that logic still does not always trump a writer's story.
As we know characters are not always portrayed as fighting to their full ability. But thankfully PIS isn't allowed on this forum so we can disregard as these instances relate to fights. A comic containing a class 5 Thing pulling Namor out of the water should neither be surprising given the age of the comic nor should it have any bearing on this fight. But that is just my opinion.
Originally posted by TheKahnWell I think that it is internet hoopla about Thing being class 5 when he first came out. He was doing stuff that he couldn't have done. And as far as I know there is no official Marvel publications stating he was 5 tons. So I think the feat with him overpowering Namor in the water is not PIS cause of who wrote the story.
When judging the influence certain fights between characters should have we must keep in mind not only the age of the issue but also the way the characters are portrayed. Thankfully, the sophistication of comics has increased over the years. However, this necessarily means that there was a time when comics were considered (even by their writers) to be little more than entertainment for a young audience.This necessitated putting logic and reason behind telling an appealing story to their audience. Earlier comics may not withstand the scrutiny that modern fans would subject moder comics to. If having the Thing beat Namor fitted the story, then I doubt the older writers would have checked to see what strength class the two characters were.
This ties into the way characters are portrayed in the fight. Given the fact that Marvel has been publishing comics for decades many of their characters have fought each other multiple times with varying outcomes for the fights. If we are to make any sense of this long and sometimes contradictory history, we must take a more objective view and admit that logic still does not always trump a writer's story.
As we know characters are not always portrayed as fighting to their full ability. But thankfully PIS isn't allowed on this forum so we can disregard as these instances relate to fights. A comic containing a class 5 Thing pulling Namor out of the water should neither be surprising given the age of the comic nor should it have any bearing on this fight. But that is just my opinion.
That and Stan Lee wrote the story. If we start calling Stan Lee stories PIS I think it's time to get a new hobby. Stan is the man.
