Thing vs Colossus

Originally posted by capt it up
Really even though martial arts is just the general definition of disciplined fighting styles which boxing is……..

Boxing actually one of the best fighting styles to learn for street fights……

i don't get into many street fights (not in a few years anyway, and even when i did i didn't punch much) so i wouldnt know... 😛

Yes I do and it not as much as you think

yet it was enough to allow him to match people like ord, or danger, and thats only recently...

Lets see here. First I did not contradict any thing.

you said that picking up something is different to mastering, and in the same breath mentioned kitty learning everything she knows from logan... and kitty is a damn good h2h fighter...

You purly speculating that Cyclopes taught him ton’s of martial art. Cyclopes is not even that skilled of a martial artist.

it's widely accepted that cyclops is highly proficient in judo and aikido...

It never been shown once that Cyclopes has personally trained colossus one on one in h2h combat.

the x-men train for several hours a day five days a week... even the students at the school are thought martial arts... hell, given that they're a superhero team, i'd say its a requirement...

Wolverine and shadow cat’s relationship is very different then colossus and wolverines. Wolverine thinks of kitty as his daughter. He has personally trained her in h2h combat, but only her in private lesions. She also was given martial art knowledge beyond her years by Ogun. Colossus could not even hope to be her skill level she had years of study given to her by super natural means.

of course she's superior to colossus, nobody could debate that... that doesnt diminish colossus' ability as a fighter though...

Storm not that skilled. When has you ever seen bishop teach colossus how to fight?

storm actually is a good h2h fighter... as much as i hate to say it, ask one of the storm fans dotted around, i'm sure they'd have the scans handy...

and its bishop... the guy grew up training to take down mutants just like the x-men... even sparring with wolverine he showed that he had studied their fighting styles...

you think in all the danger room sessions the x-men do, colossus and bishop never trained together?

So does ben and ben has the experience of using his fighting skills in war time with out the aid of powers.

colossus has had plenty of combat experience with his powers... obviously not as much as ben (ben has a good few years on him after all), but peter is a very capable fighter, who imo is a bit more cerebral than grimm, and that can help him big time...

not to mention colossus' advantages in speed, agility, and strength and durbaility (imo)

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I know boxing isn't a traditional martial art such as karate or jujitsu, but Bruce Lee had enough respect for boxing to use several components of it when he was developing Jeet Kun Do. I think Bruce Lee has more right to decide what matters in fighting than just about anybody else... ever.

considering how much bruce lee stuff i've watched, i feel like a complete douche for missing that... 🙁

Originally posted by pr1983
i don't get into many street fights (not in a few years anyway, and even when i did i didn't punch much) so i wouldnt know... 😛

Originally posted by pr1983
yet it was enough to allow him to match people like ord, or danger, and thats only recently...

Originally posted by pr1983
you said that picking up something is different to mastering, and in the same breath mentioned kitty learning everything she knows from logan... and kitty is a damn good h2h fighter...

Originally posted by pr1983
it's widely accepted that cyclops is highly proficient in judo and aikido...

Originally posted by pr1983
the x-men train for several hours a day five days a week... even the students at the school are thought martial arts... hell, given that they're a superhero team, i'd say its a requirement...

Originally posted by pr1983
of course she's superior to colossus, nobody could debate that... that doesnt diminish colossus' ability as a fighter though...

Originally posted by pr1983
storm actually is a good h2h fighter... as much as i hate to say it, ask one of the storm fans dotted around, i'm sure they'd have the scans handy...

Originally posted by pr1983
and its bishop... the guy grew up training to take down mutants just like the x-men... even sparring with wolverine he showed that he had studied their fighting styles...

Originally posted by pr1983
you think in all the danger room sessions the x-men do, colossus and bishop never trained together?

Originally posted by pr1983
colossus has had plenty of combat experience with his powers... obviously not as much as ben (ben has a good few years on him after all), but peter is a very capable fighter, who imo is a bit more cerebral than grimm, and that can help him big time...

not to mention colossus' advantages in speed, agility, and strength and durbaility (imo)

yes it common knowledge that bruce lee highly respected boxer's

Originally posted by capt it up
Ben is always listed as more skilled then colossus in any hand book.

he also has military training. he been stated by wolverine along with many other as beeing very skilled.

he an exspert in wrestling and boxing. He skilled in other forms of fighting as well.

The dude was the top boxer in the air force if I am not mistaken.

he has far more training and has been a skilled fighter since before he became the thing.

colossus is not ben superior in skill. He not even ben equal in skill.

colossus wins, but it not due to skill

Colossus has trained extensively with Wolverine, Cyclops, and Nightcrawler. If I recall correctly, he's a master (or exceptional) of judo. He knows more as well, as he's exhibited a few times fighting against other super-strong opponents.

Ben has military training and is a trained boxer and wrestler.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus has trained extensively with Wolverine, Cyclops, and Nightcrawler. If I recall correctly, he's a master (or exceptional) of judo. He knows more as well, as he's exhibited a few times fighting against other super-strong opponents.

Ben has military training and is a trained boxer and wrestler.

knows more? judo not that effective of a style. Most of the effective moves judo has come up with is practice in many styles. It however as a style is purely deffensive. Also colossus has never been stated as master or being exceptional at it.

actaully he trained extensivly with night crawler however he not trained extensivly with logan in martial arts nor scot.

he never mastered any forms of martial arts.

Ben has two mastered forms both of which are extremely usefull in there area's.

Ben is always consider the superior fighter in term of skill. He loses however since the skill gap is not great enough and colossus is superior in other area's that more then make up for the difference.

Originally posted by capt it up
knows more? judo not that effect of style. Most of the effect moves judo has come up with is practice in many styles. It however as a style is purely deffensive. Also colossus has neevr been sttaed as master or being exceptional at it.

actaulyl he trained extensivly with night crawler however he not trained extensivly with logan in martial arts nor scot.

he never mastered any forms of martial arts.

Ben has two mastered forms both of which are extremely usefull in there area's.

Ben is always consider the superior fighter in term of skill. He loses however since the skill gap is not great enough and colossus is superior in other area's that more then make up for the difference.

I don't know how you can sit there and say that Judo won't be effective against Thing's BOXING and WRESTLING. Being purely defensive is not a disadvantage. In fact, his Judo would be extremely effective against Thing. 😐

Piotr is an extremely accomplished fighter. He doesn't need to be a master of any one form. He knows many abilities from several martial arts. I'd give him the better odds here, especially given his other attributes.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't know how you can sit there and say that Judo won't be effective against Thing's BOXING and WRESTLING. Being purely defensive is not a disadvantage. In fact, his Judo would be extremely effective against Thing. 😐

also ben level of skill in both area surpass colossus knowledge of judo.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Piotr is an extremely accomplished fighter. He doesn't need to be a master of any one form. He knows many abilities from several martial arts. I'd give him the better odds here, especially given his other attributes.

Did you not ehar me when i stated colossus wins due to his other attrubutes.

I was never argueing that thing would win i was arguing the fact that he is infact the more skilled.

funny how things work out. I first argued thing fans that colossus was indeed skilled fighter and that fightign skills was not the deciding factor in this fight

Then I argued against colossus that thign was in fact more skilled lol.

The fact is thing is more skilled however colossus is close enough in skilled that things skill advantage is limited and will not be the deciding factor

also colossus acrobatic and agility mixed with skill easily turns the table into an even if not an advantage to colossus.

The add in colossus superior durability and strength and the fight becomes quite one sided.

colossus wins at least 8 out of 10 times

Originally posted by capt it up
it not actaully. Judo would be quite enffective vs a boxer. wrestler again knows judo moves and again would be ineffective. Wrestler would take a judo guy to the ground and it over. boxer would enevr be taken to the ground by a judo praction on average.

also ben level of skill in both area surpass colossus knowledge of judo.

No you don't, but vs a man who has mastered two forms of combat is not good for him. He fighting a guy who his superior in fighting though it a slight gap.

Did you not ehar me when i stated colossus wins due to his other attrubutes.

I was never argueing that thing would win i was arguing the fact that he is infact the more skilled.

Capt, I can read. I know exactly what you're saying. I see that you agree Colossus wins. Clearly, I'm aruging over another topic, whose skill is superior?

You just assume that Ben's level of skill in both boxing and wrestling automatically surpass that of Colossus' judo and other fighting skills.

I don't think you know enough about judo. And no, I'm not underrating boxing nor wrestling.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Capt, I can read. I know exactly what you're saying. I see that you agree Colossus wins. Clearly, I'm aruging over another topic, whose skill is superior?

You just assume that Ben's level of skill in both boxing and wrestling automatically surpass that of Colossus' judo and other fighting skills.

I don't think you know enough about judo. And no, I'm not underrating boxing nor wrestling.

colossus is a very well rounded fighter it true. He knows quite a few styles however only pieces of the styles.

thing has mastered two styles of combat. This an advantage since he is extremely skilled in both becuase of his mastery over them. He also due to military training and he was highyl trained h2h fighter. he was taught many different styles as well.

so like colossus he knows many styles however unlike colossus he has mastery over two of them which gives him the skill advantage.

also in military training judo is tought. Thing knows judo as well.

to tell you all the truth I am very umimpressed by the basic h2h combat taught by the air force. It quite effective vs the average person however vs some one with fighting experience it quite ineffective. Thats just my opinion though it really has nothing to do with this fight lol.

though thing is the more skilled h2h fighter

colossus is the better weapon fighter

WOW, boxing in underrated!

1: Kung-Fu
2: Boxing
3: Karate
4: The rest

My opinion on the listing of martial arts effectivity😉

Most proffesional boxers would own Bruce Lee

Ben wins.

Stronger, more skilled, more durable.
And to answer a person a few pages back...yes, yes a Nova Blast from Johny pwns the **** out of Havok's attacks.

It's funny to see the Colossus fanboys say he's stronger and more durable...but they offer up no proof whatsoever for either except two fights that both come down to circumstances.

Still waiting on Piotr's strength feats that put him above Thing.

Originally posted by BaptizedAtheist
WOW, boxing in underrated!

1: Kung-Fu
2: Boxing
3: Karate
4: The rest

My opinion on the listing of martial arts effectivity😉

Most proffesional boxers would own Bruce Lee

your an idiot if you honestly believe that.........

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well I am not gonna say Colossus is more skilled but I will say he is equal or damm close. He was trained by Wolverine himself and trained 6 hours a day for five days a week in the danger room.

Damn right. And what has Ben Grimm done? Sit his fantastic ass on the couch.

And for the record - boxing's a martial art. Also for the record - Colossus has been stated to be VERY proficient at Judo, maybe exceptional, I can't recall the panel word-for-word off the top of my head.

ALSO for the record - Judo is NOT overrated. To anyone who believes so...I have only one word; Kimura.

Originally posted by Soljer
Damn right. And what has Ben Grimm done? Sit his fantastic ass on the couch.

And for the record - boxing's a martial art. Also for the record - Colossus has been stated to be VERY proficient at Judo, maybe exceptional, I can't recall the panel word-for-word off the top of my head.

ALSO for the record - Judo is NOT overrated. To anyone who believes so...I have only one word; Kimura.

Exactly. On all counts. 👆

Originally posted by capt it up
I see. I have not been in a fight in…….2 month or so. I got in a little scuffle with a couple kids in my school……..I never been much for kicking I am not very good at it lol.

i'm actually too tall to really kick effectively... its all knees for me... 😆

Did you even read the issue? Danger beat the shit out of him. Ord he attacked from behind and was not using skill he was using pure rage……..

danger only beat him when he turned to human form to protect kitty... once the x-men started fighting unpredictably, they were actually doing damage...

ord defeated the best warriors on his own planet to win the right to come to earth... he beat cyclops, logan, beast, emma and shadowcat by himself... colossus got one hit in before they fought, and he still kicked his ass all over the place... and not long afterwards, colossus still had the strength to throw wolverine miles to catch ord's ship...

Because they are different. Picking up some thing and mastering it is completely different. Yes and she was taught it by logan who personally trained her in advance martial arts. He taught her to master the art of bishudo. These sessions were not some thing he teaches to any one else……….Not to mention the who Ogun thing……..

i'm not saying kitty isnt more skilled, of course she is... but colossus trains daily with kitty, logan and cyclops... even if he's just picking shit up, he's still going to be a better than average fighter, capable of hanging with alot of people...

Yes and……….mastering and proficient are to totally different things……..

highly proficient... like steven segal is highly proficient... 😬

That was true in the past not any more. They are taught basic martial arts…….They get schooled by a boxing exspert.

its part of basic training... cyclops and logan oversee training, even as lately as astonishing #13...

It sorta does actually. You were trying to imply he as skilled as thing because kitty is really skilled when kitty was taught personally by wolverine. Colossus has not been trained in the same manner as kitty has been.

i'm not implying a thing... i'm saying that if anyone, be it you, or me, or colossus trained with those three people for hours every single day, i can guarantee you if we'd any natural aptitude, and spent that long learning, we'd be damn good fighters...

we're talking years of training with some very skilled fighters...

Again she good, but not a master of any form. She again was privately taught by wolverine.

yet she beat callisto one on one...

and how do we know colossus wasnt trained by wolverine?

Ya and why does this matter? Bishop not colossus. Also he was trying all out vs a wolverine was sparring……..

all i was suggesting was that maybe colossus had learned from bishop too...

Again even if they did they were taining with there powers not martial arts. Also all you have to go on is pure speculation.

no, logical deduction... there's a difference... and won't peter and ben be using powers in this fight?

I said colossus wins for those reason dam do you listen to a word I say……..

i do, and i wasnt actually addressing you specifically, i was just reiterating my stance on the fight...

yes it common knowledge that bruce lee highly respected boxer's

i know that, i just always thought that it was an outside thing... like, a sprinter respecting a footballer sort of thing...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Ben wins.

Stronger, more skilled, more durable.

prove it...

And to answer a person a few pages back...yes, yes a Nova Blast from Johny pwns the **** out of Havok's attacks.

a full power, surface of the sun blast, while colossus has his arms wrapped around him?

It's funny to see the Colossus fanboys say he's stronger and more durable...but they offer up no proof whatsoever for either except two fights that both come down to circumstances.

pot. kettle. black.

Still waiting on Piotr's strength feats that put him above Thing.

and vice versa...

colossus is as skilled is every one happy now........

not sure how that changes the out come though.

also soljier I was saying on average. Not that there are not exceptional fighters in that style.

there are exceptional fighters in every form of martial arts.

take nunchuck masters for example. It a rather bad weapon overall however there are people who are immensly skilled with it to the point of being able to defeat many of the best fighters with superior weapons.

Originally posted by capt it up
colossus is as skilled is every one happy now........

not sure how that changes the out come though.

also soljier I was saying on average. Not that there are not exceptional fighters in that style.

there are exceptional fighters in every form of martial arts.

take nunchuck masters for example. It a rather bad weapon overall however there are people who are immensly skilled with it to the point of being able to defeat many of the best fighters with superior weapons.

so how is it a bad weapon?

any weapon is only as good as the user... 😛

Originally posted by pr1983
so how is it a bad weapon?

any weapon is only as good as the user... 😛