Originally posted by Blair Wind
so long as the original is connected to him, they are just like an extension of himself.This diagram sort of explains it
Which is exactly why i was against this sort of thing as far back as the draft threads
Power copying characters (except Mimic) were all limited to copying only one single power at a time
You freely admit that the dupes are all part of Duplicate Boy:
"an extension of himself."
Therefore when the dupes use different powers than the original... the one single character is using multiple powersets at once
Originally posted by Dizzle
MM's limitation extends to his dupes as well, meaning that the loop effect would also not be happening. The same applies for DB
Exactly
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Basically since they already have knowledge on the powers, and having the masters in it teaching them, the experience factor is a non-issue
They have extremely limited knowledge and only an hour or so to practice .... Experience is a huge factor
Get the greatest martial artist on earth to teach a noob how to fight for only an hour or two .... send him into the Ultimate Fighting Championship ring and he'll still get owned by everyone
Experience is your biggest weakness... the only reason you're trying to dismiss it is that you know that
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I do keep ignoring the Wendigos..... mainly because any single character on my team can handle 5 or 6 retarded Wendigos solo.... plus they can't fly or aren't fast enough to catch anyone on my team
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Your only advantage - numbers - isn't much of an advantage at all.... the wendigos are useless, the dupes are complete noobs with their powers and will make huge mistakes under pressure, DBP is totally vulnerable and neither Powerhouse nor Crystal can take a punch (or a debilitating sonic attack)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Power copying characters (except Mimic) were all limited to copying only one single power at a timeYou freely admit that the dupes are all part of Duplicate Boy:
"an extension of himself."
I admit that is what MM calls them. However they are perfect duplicates of himself. Therefore they are perfect duplicates of Duplicate Boy.
They have extremely limited knowledge and only an hour or so to practice .... Experience is a huge factor
and hour? how about the prep time from the different fights plus the battle experience?
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I do keep ignoring the Wendigos..... mainly because any single character on my team can handle 5 or 6 retarded Wendigos solo.... plus they can't fly or aren't fast enough to catch anyone on my team
flung by gravity man. Its a non physical fastball special.
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Your only advantage - numbers - isn't much of an advantage at all.... the wendigos are uselessFLUNG LIKE DARTS
the dupes are complete noobs with their powers
NOT WITH CRYSTAL AND POWERHOUSE TEACHING THEM, PLUS BATTLE EXPERIENCE
DBP is totally vulnerable
LEGION RING AND BODYGUARD
and neither Powerhouse nor Crystal can take a punch (or a debilitating sonic attack)
THATS FUNNY, POWERHOUSE CAN LOWER THE GRAVITY AROUND HIMSELF MEANING THAT YOUR PUNCHES GET TO ME MUCH SLOWER, AND ONE CRYSTAL IS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO TAKE ON THE TEAM BY HERSELF AND GIVE YOU A RUN FOR YOUR MONEY.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
and hour? how about the prep time from the different fights plus the battle experience?
They spent a lot of time as Monoliths and whatnot, which, in the context of this match, was time wasted
At the very maximum they've got 3 hours worth of experience using their powers
Up against a team of pros they don't have the skills necessary to compete
Originally posted by Blair Wind
POWERHOUSE CAN LOWER THE GRAVITY AROUND HIMSELF MEANING THAT YOUR PUNCHES GET TO ME MUCH SLOWER
How does a small area of lowered gravity slow down anything?.... if anything the reduced resistance will increase the force of the attacks.... and gravity variances of any kind wont affect TS's mace in flight
Originally posted by Scoobless
They spent a lot of time as Monoliths and whatnot, which, in the context of this match, was time wastedAt the very maximum they've got 3 hours worth of experience using their powers.
plus the very essential battle experience.
With the masters as their teachers they do. Plus the fact that Powerhouse and Crystal ARE masters with their powers. Powerhouse and Crystal are both too versitile for your team.
How does a small area of lowered gravity slow down anything?.... if anything the reduced resistance will increase the force of the attacks.... and gravity variances of any kind wont affect TS's mace in flight
😕
damn.....I was thinking....doesnt matter what I was thinking. INCREASED Gravity WILL effect TS ARM tho.....if he cant move it effectively then the mace is of no concern.
Plues trying to deal with 600,000 gallons of water mixed with 4 hurricane force winds is really gonna mess with your team.
Gravity fields are a killer and with Charcoal under my control I could just make him molten slug and throw him on TS. He would then block his vision. Ironman is being burnt to a crisp from the oxygen in the suit.
hermod has no chance going through the gravity. There really is no way you can win....
hmm, while i don't necessarily see crys being able to CONTROL charcoal per se, even scoob admitted she might be able to fight him for some control. if he's fending her off like that, he's really not gonna be too effective in the battle.
5 cl75 wendigos (contrary to what scoob says about any of his characters being able to beat them all . . .) would certainly be enough to keep ts busy.
i've still seen no reason to believe crys couldn't just steal the O2 from inside tony's suit or just fry him almost immediately. it seems like IM would be about the first to fall. winds and rain from another crys would make sonics less then effective.
so IM (the biggest threat for sure) is out and still a huge numbers advantage to BW. i see no way to even REACH dbp to eliminate him.
sorry scoob -- it really is NOT a jla/authority thing. there's just too damn many. the experince thing was a good angle, but even if they are only fumbling for a little while they can still do a hell of a lot with 3 of her and 5 cl75 savage beasts . . . and with tony gone . . . 🙁
gotta say BW.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
There really is no way you can win....
No way that you would be willing to accept .... but that's fine... your job here is to disagree with me (regardless of how flawed your reasoning is 😛 )
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Simple unavoidable facts:
The Dupes are super powered noobs trying to work with very complex powersets = a very ineffective mix
Wendigos wont act as part of a team due to their lack of intellect.... and they're easily avoidable
Crystal and Powerhouse aren't durable enough to survive a single direct hit from any of my team
DBP cannot defend himself and his bodyguard is just another inexperienced noob
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, while i don't necessarily see crys being able to CONTROL charcoal per se, even scoob admitted she might be able to fight him for some control. if he's fending her off like that, he's really not gonna be too effective in the battle.
And if she's trying to do that then it'll take all her concentration and she wont be able to do anything else in the fight
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This thing must be close to ending now.... have we gone over everything yet?
I'm begining to feel like we're just repeating ourselves
Originally posted by Scoobless
No way that you would be willing to accept .... but that's fine... your job here is to disagree with me (regardless of how flawed your reasoning is 😛 )
thats what I say 🙄
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The Dupes are super powered noobs trying to work with very complex powersets = a very ineffective mix
battle experience makes men hard, fast. Add experienced teachers and you have a very effective combination.
Wendigos wont act as part of a team due to their lack of intellect....
they dont need to. Wendigos make trouble with the gravity enhanced fastball special.
Crystal and Powerhouse aren't durable enough to survive a single direct hit from any of my team
when it comes to energy Powerhouse is the master. The only non energy attack you really have is the mace and gravity takes care of TS's arm.
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This thing must be close to ending now.... have we gone over everything yet?
I'm begining to feel like we're just repeating ourselves
I feel the same.....wanna call it?
Both of you guys put up a damn good fight 👆 , it's too bad we have to pick between you two 🙁
First there is the issue of Charcoal. He just seems to come up against the wrong opponents in Crystal and her copies. She *might* be able to fight him for control somewhat which would reduce his effectiveness and if not I just don't see what he is going to do against a team full of elementals.
If Crystal has in fact got past the Invisible Woman's shield, I can't see why she can't bypass IM's. Add to the fact that BW has shown her demonstrating a great deal of control over all of the air molecules for 30 miles and she is just an incredibly tough opponent to deal with. I would tend to think that IM could still take her out at a distance if he acted quickly enough (I think the dupes would be able use her basic powers but not anything close to her top feats). However BW has Powerhouse and his dupes who can absorb energy.
The issue is similar to the one with Duplicate Boy "Prime". Scoobless is right that he could be a weak point in BW's team but to get to him Scoobless would have to plow through nearly every member of BW's team as long range energy attacks have a energy absorber to get through.
Also having 5 class 75 crazed beasts who have healing factors being thrown at you would be a sizable distraction to deal with. Hermod or Thunderstrike could take them but that would just force Scoobless to attack BW's team with one fewer team member.
If it was just Crystal, one Wendigo, Powerhouse, and one Duplicate Boy I would tend to think that Scoobless would win more often than not. His team seems to bring more firepower to bear. BW would have to decide who to attack and who to protect thereby leaving openings that Scoobless could exploit. But given the shear numbers on his team BW doesn't really have to do that. The dupes may not be as good as the originals, but even if they can just do the basics then they tip the scales significantly.
I have to give my vote to Blair Wind. Given the cap limits in this tourney, the number advantage BW has is almost impossible for any team to overcome with members under said cap, imo.
oh wow....
this was ridiculous
Both of you made amazing arguments, its sincerly difficult for me to decide. To be honest I'm glad I'm not judging this round, simply because its almost too close to call.
However... The dupes may just swing it for me. While they wouldnt have access to all of Crystal's high end feats, they certainly would contribute to the disorienting effects that BW has them and PH performing
IMHO, BW 5.5/10..... lol
nothing personal here.... could easily go either way...
