Exar Kun vs 8 Vong Slayers and Vong Supreme Overlord

Originally posted by tdtd
You're really missing the point Deception. Luke's attack which WAS an instakill was possibly designed to combat the force or just created by Luke for kicks. The instakill itself produces so much energy that it could go around that "hole in the force" which surrounds the Vong. At the same time Kun's blasts were NOT an instakill, nor were ever shown to be used on a live, competent force user. And if youre going to use the argument that it could blast through monsters and walls, I'm going to say, so does an AT-AT blast and Luke blocked it.

The Amulet Blasts were created by the Ancient Sith for the sole purpose of harnessing one's force rage, therefore the stronger the user, the more power the Blasts produces. The Blasts depend on each user, and Kun being such a powerful user, would possibly create enough energy as to go around the "hole in the force." You say Kun's blasts weren't able to be used on Force users, and neither has Luke's so therefore that is irrelevant as well as illogical. The At AT blasts are not of the force, they are pure energy generated by techonogly, so your saying a missile that destroys a target is exactly the same as plane crash? They both can destroy a certain place/object and they both have the same effects, however its common knowledge that they are not the same. Just as logically, if you conclude that the Amulet Blasts are almost the same as AT AT blasts, i can also conclude that the Emerald lightning is merely a buffed up version of the regular Lightning, hence it can be blocked with a saber.

They were both blasts that were shown to do the same thing. I'm not saying they are the same thing but we saw Luke block one instance of it, therefore there's a possibility that he could block the other instance. I'm not disputing the lack of information in terms of Luke ever using it on a force user, doesn't mean he can't. For all you know he created the technique specifically for the Vong and didn't need to use it on anybody else. Me saying that the AT-AT blast does the exact same thing as an amulet blast is a logical statement with proof. You can't say they're different unless you're going to state that the amulet blast is more powerful than the AT-AT blast, which there is no evidence for. You saying Emerald lightning is a buffed up version of regular lightning is illogical. If you actually understood what emerald lightning was, you know you couldn't block it with a saber.
1. It's an instakill technique so that in itself makes it different from regular lightning.
2. He doesn't produce green sparks, that's a common misconception. He just holds out his hands and the Vong go down. Block that with a lightsaber.

Originally posted by tdtd
They were both blasts that were shown to do the same thing. I'm not saying they are the same thing but we saw Luke block one instance of it, therefore there's a possibility that he could block the other instance. I'm not disputing the lack of information in terms of Luke ever using it on a force user, doesn't mean he can't. For all you know he created the technique specifically for the Vong and didn't need to use it on anybody else. Me saying that the AT-AT blast does the exact same thing as an amulet blast is a logical statement with proof. You can't say they're different unless you're going to state that the amulet blast is more powerful than the AT-AT blast, which there is no evidence for. You saying Emerald lightning is a buffed up version of regular lightning is illogical. If you actually understood what emerald lightning was, you know you couldn't block it with a saber.
1. It's an instakill technique so that in itself makes it different from regular lightning.
2. He doesn't produce green sparks, that's a common misconception. He just holds out his hands and the Vong go down. Block that with a lightsaber.

Ok, the Lightning that a Destroyed Station produces is comparable to The lightning that Naga Sadow destroyed a star with? Or the lightning that a destroyed droid produces is the same as Force Storm? I never disputed that the AT AT blasts do the same thing as the Amulet Blasts, im merely stating that they are not comparable, the Amulet blasts are thicker than the blade of the Lightsaber, so how can the Saber block it? Try blocking something that exceeds the width of what your blocking it with, it may stop some of the effects but Luke will be severly damage, just as Nai once stated that the Emerald Lightning is likely to be blocked by Kun, but he will just as well sustain severe damage from it.

1) The Amulet Blasts are a result of a Person's force rage, which makes it stronger varying from different users, it is not the techonolgical Laser than at AT AT blast produces.

2) Show that will have effect on a powerful force user such as Kun. If its just blank force, then the chances are Kun can block it

Now youre comparing Naga Sadow's control over the amulet to Kun's? Sadow made that Amulet, Sadow is superior to Kun, there is no comparison..
I never said Luke's instakill would have an effect on Kun.. It may or it may not. It produces enough energy that Kun might not be able to stop it, but that's all debateable. THe point is we have more proof that Luke could possibly stop Kun's blasts, than Kun being able to stop a foreign force technique of enormous energy.

I'm confused, but perhaps I'm mistaken, wasn't NJO Luke able to overcome more Vong than this? I am aware that he killed the Supreme Overlord after decimating several Vong in combat. Based on that, I do not see these Vong surviving - especially if Kun is supposedly more powerful than Luke.

Kun isn't more powerful than Luke. But Kun could take these down with a saber. The real question is can Kun use his amulet blasts like Luke used his emerad lightning, which either was designed to combat a non force entity, or had tremendous energy that could go around the hole.

I was about to say. As far as I'm aware (and I'm not the scholar on Exar Kun like IKC is, so he will have to verify this), Kun ranks among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy's history. I believe he annihilated Master Vodo in a saber duel, despite Vodo being recognized for his considerable dueling ability - and then he was Ulic's master, chosen by Marka Ragnos as the more powerful of the two.

I thought Kun could do this very easily.

Yea but at the same time we don't know how good Vodo is so despite being the GrandMaster, it doesn't speak volume's for Kun's skill. His ability to create a new saber and form does though.

Originally posted by tdtd
Now youre comparing Naga Sadow's control over the amulet to Kun's? Sadow made that Amulet, Sadow is superior to Kun, there is no comparison..
I never said Luke's instakill would have an effect on Kun.. It may or it may not. It produces enough energy that Kun might not be able to stop it, but that's all debateable. THe point is we have more proof that Luke could possibly stop Kun's blasts, than Kun being able to stop a foreign force technique of enormous energy.

No we have proof that Luke can block an energy bolt which resembles the Amulet Blasts it terms of effect and perhaps look, but we have no evidence that his saber can block a blast that is physical manifestation of the force, which in its own right is an enormous amount of energy, Force lightning does the same things to certain objects as AT AT Blasts, your merely comparing because they look alike and they do the same thing, whereas the force lightning they do the same thing, but they dont look alike.

So no we dont have more proof in Luke blocking it, consider that you wouldn't neccesary say that if Kun's blasts came out like purple lightning.

That would really depend, because the Amulet blasts, whilst concentrates force rage, it would depend on how power Kun, possesed and thus making each Amulet Blast stronger.

It is my opinion that Kun will be able to do it, due to the fact, that his power is immense meaning that his Blasts will be enormous amounts of energy, and more than likely to go around the "hole in the force"

True, Kun curbstomping Vodo does not speak volumes, but it still puts him above most other Dark Lord of the Sith's although not Luke, how many Sith Lords have been able to defeat a Grand Master in a matter of seconds?

Originally posted by Escape81
I was about to say. As far as I'm aware (and I'm not the scholar on Exar Kun like IKC is, so he will have to verify this), Kun ranks among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy's history. I believe he annihilated Master Vodo in a saber duel, despite Vodo being recognized for his considerable dueling ability - and then he was Ulic's master, chosen by Marka Ragnos as the more powerful of the two.

I thought Kun could do this very easily.

I don't know about ''easily,'' but depending on the location, he could either scrape by or - to a degree - own the Vong.

Welcome back again, btw.

Originally posted by Deception
That would really depend, because the Amulet blasts, whilst concentrates force rage, it would depend on how power Kun, possesed and thus making each Amulet Blast stronger.

It is my opinion that Kun will be able to do it, due to the fact, that his power is immense meaning that his Blasts will be enormous amounts of energy, and more than likely to go around the "hole in the force"

True, Kun curbstomping Vodo does not speak volumes, but it still puts him above most other Dark Lord of the Sith's although not Luke, how many Sith Lords have been able to defeat a Grand Master in a matter of seconds?

Again his blasts are enormous yes but that still doesn't mean he could get through that hole in the wall, and his technique is not an instakill while Luke's is an instakill and most likely requires more energy than Kun's blast. Using the AT-AT example we have evidence that Luke can block a powerful blast that resembles Kun's amulet blast. That says a lot more for him than it does for Kun being able to block an instakill. ANd again the lightning and Luke's instakill are not even close to being the same thing.

Neither are the Amulet Blasts and the AT AT blasts close to the same thing, you need to sort out that bit of logic. Considering that Traya had an instakill that originated from the Ancient Sith, and its more than likely that Sadow had one within his teachings, meaning there is a bigger possibilty that Kun would know how to block instakills, however it is speculation just as your speculating that Luke may be able to block the Amulet Blasts. His Blasts were an instakill, it tore living organisms into dust with each Blasts, and consider these are creatures much more massive that the Vong.

Based on the evidence we are given...
1. the blasts do the exact same thing whether one is a manifestation of the force or not.
2. the amulet blast was used once and was never shown to be used against a live, competent force user.
3. Nothing suggests Kun learned even a fraction of Sadow's teachings.
4. Kun's blasts were not an instakill, show me where he killed living competent force users with one shot, or anyone with one shot.
5. Luke being able to develop a technique to instakill beings outside of the force is a lot more impressive than Kun blasting beasts.
6. If Kun's blasts are a manifestation of the force, there's nothing to show it could be used against an enemy like the Vong.
7. Kun's blasts were NOT an instakill, Traya's technique was.. And that's even speculation that it was a technique. It wasn't so much as a technique but as a result of forcing a life bond with a would in the force(the exile). IF you remember, Nihilus has the same technique on a much greater scale.

Originally posted by tdtd
Based on the evidence we are given...
1. the blasts do the exact same thing whether one is a manifestation of the force or not.
2. the amulet blast was used once and was never shown to be used against a live, competent force user.
3. Nothing suggests Kun learned even a fraction of Sadow's teachings.
4. Kun's blasts were not an instakill, show me where he killed living competent force users with one shot, or anyone with one shot.
5. Luke being able to develop a technique to instakill beings outside of the force is a lot more impressive than Kun blasting beasts.
6. If Kun's blasts are a manifestation of the force, there's nothing to show it could be used against an enemy like the Vong.
7. Kun's blasts were NOT an instakill, Traya's technique was.. And that's even speculation that it was a technique. It wasn't so much as a technique but as a result of forcing a life bond with a would in the force(the exile). IF you remember, Nihilus has the same technique on a much greater scale.

1) So now your saying that Traya's instakill is the same as Luke's?
2) Same with the lightning, it was shown to be used once and never used again
3) Nothing? So i guess that Kun's freezing spell is his own invention.
4) Show me where the Emerald lightning willl work anywhere outside of the Vong, for all you know the lightning will only affect beings outside of the force
5) i never disputed that it was more impressive
6) And if Luke's Emerald Lightning isn't, then i can speculate that it will only work on beings outside of the force
7) Yeh and it originated from the Ancient Sith, and perhaps they could block it. But then again that is again speculation. As is your last comment.

1. No I'm not, Traya's instakill was a pure instakill that was a fluke.
2. Right but Luke wasn't afraid to use it, we know Kun thought it would kill him if he used his blast again.
3. No, I didn't say nothing. the sith spell was most likely one of the things, but you were assuming he learned a lot of things from Sadow and I'm saying he didn't learn that much, he wasn't alive long enough.
4. I didn't say the lightning would necessary work on a force user, but there is no technique that would JUST work out on beings outside of the force, that doesn't even make sense, because the technique is still a manifestation of the force..
6. Luke used the force, period.. He developed a force technique that was powerful enough to work on a none force user..
7. My statement is actually logical considering the proof we have from KOTOR II. Nihilus was a result from the wound in the force(exile), so was his technique(fluke). Traya tied her life bond to the exile and was only shown to use her instakill in his presence.

Originally posted by tdtd
1. No I'm not, Traya's instakill was a pure instakill that was a fluke.
2. Right but Luke wasn't afraid to use it, we know Kun thought it would kill him if he used his blast again.
3. No, I didn't say nothing. the sith spell was most likely one of the things, but you were assuming he learned a lot of things from Sadow and I'm saying he didn't learn that much, he wasn't alive long enough.
4. I didn't say the lightning would necessary work on a force user, but there is no technique that would JUST work out on beings outside of the force, that doesn't even make sense, because the technique is still a manifestation of the force..
6. Luke used the force, period.. He developed a force technique that was powerful enough to work on a none force user..
7. My statement is actually logical considering the proof we have from KOTOR II. Nihilus was a result from the wound in the force(exile), so was his technique(fluke). Traya tied her life bond to the exile and was only shown to use her instakill in his presence.

1) A fluke, show me where it was demonstrated to be a fluke
2) True, but we did not see Luke ever using it again, therefore we cannot say Luke will use it, if we say Kun wont
3) I was assuming, but there is no proof, neither is their proof that the Blasts will be able to be blocked by Luke, like i said, if the blasts looked like purple lightning you would not compare it to the AT AT blasts.
4) And that is another assumption, the technique was shown to be used only on the Vong, and there are weaponry and techniques designed to work specifically on a race or object, ie Suncrusher only being able to destroy Stars
5) Where does it say non for user? It only worked on the Vong
6) It was only "Shown" wow, that doesnt mean she cant do it again, so if Revan was only shown to have visions of his past life in Bastila's presence does that make it so? No.

1. The minute Traya tied her life to the Exile after he became a wound in the force. She was never able to use it before it, without him, and nothing says she ever used it again.
2. My point is that Kun might not use it because he's afraid of his power, which is clearly stated. Luke not using it for whatever reason is up in the air, but it was stated as having tremendous energy, that's about all.
3. I'm comparing the blasts because yes, there's no proof that he could use it on a live, competent force user, and because the blasts do the exact same things which means Luke COULD possibly block it. Doesn't mean he can but it's a logical assumption.
4. Yes but this is a force attack bro, therefore everyone inside the force would be affected by it, whether they can block it or not.
5. Huh?
6. Ok absence of proof isn't proof of absence, but with your logic I can just say the same for Kun, and the same for Luke and his instakill. The fact remains that she used it only around the exile, there was no evidence of her using it without him, nor before he became wound in the force. My logic is based on storyline.

Originally posted by tdtd
1. The minute Traya tied her life to the Exile after he became a wound in the force. She was never able to use it before it, without him, and nothing says she ever used it again.
2. My point is that Kun might not use it because he's afraid of his power, which is clearly stated. Luke not using it for whatever reason is up in the air, but it was stated as having tremendous energy, that's about all.
3. I'm comparing the blasts because yes, there's no proof that he could use it on a live, competent force user, and because the blasts do the exact same things which means Luke COULD possibly block it. Doesn't mean he can but it's a logical assumption.
4. Yes but this is a force attack bro, therefore everyone inside the force would be affected by it, whether they can block it or not.
5. Huh?
6. Ok absence of proof isn't proof of absence, but with your logic I can just say the same for Kun, and the same for Luke and his instakill. The fact remains that she used it only around the exile, there was no evidence of her using it without him, nor before he became wound in the force. My logic is based on storyline.

1) Like i said, where is the proof for it? Although its likely to be true, nothing dictates she cant use it again
2) True but we dont know how drained Luke may be? IF he were to use it and become to weak to combat Kun then why would he?
3) And Kun can possibly block Luke's lightning, if we assume he learnt most of Sadow's teachings, that is just as logical and like i said speculation just as your comparison of the AT AT blasts is logical speculation
4) There are some attacks designed to be used for specific purposes. True it may affect others, but it doesnt mean it would be an instakill for normal SW people.
5) ???
6) Based on non-canon gameplay, nothing dictates that she can't use it again. For all you know, the Exile might not have been present there. Gameplay is non-canon

One more thing, the Vong are not completely non-existent to the force, Omini, one of the Vong has been shown to be able to use the force, it could be like other creatures, the Vong developed an immunity to most of the force, and perhaps they lived without it in them, but Omini shows that the Vong too were once part of the force. If you use gameplay, remember how Kreia states that the SW galaxy could exist without the force, and the Exile was living proof.

Originally posted by tdtd
Kun isn't more powerful than Luke. But Kun could take these down with a saber. The real question is can Kun use his amulet blasts like Luke used his emerad lightning, which either was designed to combat a non force entity, or had tremendous energy that could go around the hole.

How can you say definitively that Kun "isn't more powerful" than Luke if you keep trying to reiterate that there's no evidence whenever your pinned?