darth vader metal form or GG

Started by DePWNZOR3 pages

Grievous doesn't have petty emotions like Vader.

And anyway, Vader didn't "love Luke enough to die for him ". Obviously, since he was FIGHTING HIM he didn't love him that much.

Grievous doesn't have petty emotions like Vader.

He doesn't? We've never seen GG react to a family member before... Remember, Vader acts more hardass than GG when Luke isnt around.

And anyway, Vader didn't "love Luke enough to die for him ". Obviously, since he was FIGHTING HIM he didn't love him that much.

He was conflicted indeed, but he could have beaten Luke rather easily. Vader is 80% as powerful as ROTJ Sidious (who would be a step up from ROTS Sidious). I doubt boy with minimal training > 80% of Sidious.

Originally posted by Faunus
For once, I agree. You have Vader depicted very well in RoDV, struggling with his new identity and handicap, and in Purge - taking place at the same time, give or take a couple of weeks - he's wrecking Jedi Masters. With a few months or years, yeah, but Purge was queer. . .

Yeah, thanks Faunus. By the OT Vader might have been able to take out those Jedi, especially if he was saved my Clones like in Purge.

Purge DID take place AFTER RODV, so it's not that bad. He was just getting used to the suit in RODV. By Purge, I guess he was warmed up. I mean, he was confident enough to take on a whole bunch of Jedi Masters alone.

btw, Appo was not in Purge.


I heard that Appo was in Purge. Which means Purge took place before RODV as Appo died in Purge. Can someone (Faunus maybe) confirm that Appo wasn't in Purge? And either way, at the end of RODV, Vader had quite a bit of trouble with Roan Shryne, who can't be any better than Tsui Choi.

I heard that Appo was in Purge. Which means Purge took place before RODV as Appo died in Purge. Can someone (Faunus maybe) confirm that Appo wasn't in Purge? And either way, at the end of RODV, Vader had quite a bit of trouble with Roan Shryne, who can't be any better than Tsui Choi.

There was a "Commander" in the comic, but I dont remember them specifying whether it was Appo or not.

swcomics.com has the whole thing.

Just "commander"

Yep, that has to be post-RoDV: Appo gets killed in Dark Lord, and considering he's Vader's second-hand man, I doubt his presence would be lacking after the fight of Vader's life.

Also note than Vader had to get his sorry ass saved by Clones while on Hypori it was the Jedi that the ARC troopers had to save and Grievous still emerged un injured.

Didn't Grievous take 3 Masters and 1 Knight, as apposed to 8 Masters?

Regardless, OT Vader has 25+ of Sith Training.

Eight masters? Lol, he takes one because she runs towards him like a lunatic and he takes the others because they don't seem to see that he's using a cortosis blade. The remaining three WTFpwn him...

Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Tsui Choi is pretty awesome.

Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Lucas never specified Force Powers. Stop making up facts.

Slow and clunky? He's a bit less agile, but Grievous is barely impressive in saber combat. It took Obi-Wan less than 30 seconds to cut one arm off, and a grand total of 4 minutes to pwn his ass with a force push. And unless you're going to argue Obi-Wan ROTS is 80% of Sidious in (let's do it your way) "force powers only", Grievous gets pwned.

This isn't even ROTS Sidious either. OT Sidious had 24 years to study the force and devote a large portion of his life to the Dark Side.

Barely impressive? Kenobi won because he was a Soresu master. He was the person most suited to destroying Grievous, and whilst I'd agree that Vader kills him with the force, the 80% thing is unquantifiable and nonsensical to use in a debate.

The quote was mainly there to have the audience recognize that the Emperor was superior to Vader. For a long time people thought Palpatine only had a "mental" domination on Vader.

Vader wins, he would lay a beat down on Greivous in a lightsaber match, especially if he was using the force. By the time of Purge, Vader was confident enough to take on Kenobi, and then went on to kill a few Jedi, one of which used a cortosis blade against him. He only lost the upper hand because three Jedi were throwing crap at him.

By the OT Vader has perfected his style, isn't particularly slow, and would rip Greivous' metal arms out of their sockets.

Didn't Grievous take 3 Masters and 1 Knight, as apposed to 8 Masters?

Four Masters (two were council members) and two knights. Five. Plus he killed a few ARC's and the Jedi didn'
didn't have to get his ass saved by Clones.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Lucas never specified Force Powers. Stop making up facts.
[/B]


In the special features of RotS, Lucas does state that before being maimed, Vader was twice as powerfull as the Emperor, but lost a great deal of his power once he lost his arms and legs, so is almost as strong as the Emperor.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Slow and clunky? He's a bit less agile, but Grievous is barely impressive in saber combat. It took Obi-Wan less than 30 seconds to cut one arm off

In the novelization of RotS, it clarifies the point that in his duel with Grievous, Obi-Wan allowed Grievous to overpower his defences so that he would in effect, sever his own limbs and lightsabers against Obi-Wan's blade. Had Obi-Wan tried to agressively strike at Grievous, the move would have been countered. Also, lets not forget that in RotS Grievous was damaged, and not operating at the full capacity that he was in Clone Wars where he was more than capable of standing up to the five Jedi, and for the purpose of this debate, it was said that Grievous' damage/injuries would be fixed, so that would mean he was once more operating at full capacity. Given how Vader's artificial limbs are an encumberence and something he has to force to move at a normal pace (as said in RoDV) it is fair to say that he would not be able to match Grievous' pace, and even if it was Vader 20 years later, he might have adapted to the new limbs, but 20 years is still going to have taken it's toll on him physically, and Luke was only able to beat him down by using the Dark Side, without it, Vader was still the superior fighter.

No.... Grievous was not "damaged". Just hours before ROTS as in Labyrinth of Evil he was still perfectly capable of kicking ass. But when the situation is that Grievous doesn't have the element of shock and surprise, his exotic nature tends to wear thin. Notice Mace almost beat the living shit out of him in Labyrinth of Evil even despite a shock and surprise assault.

But if a force choke to his organ sack somehow effects his nonorganic body's performance in a battle, that's news to me.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
No.... Grievous was not "damaged". Just hours before ROTS as in Labyrinth of Evil he was still perfectly capable of kicking ass. But when the situation is that Grievous doesn't have the element of shock and surprise, his exotic nature tends to wear thin. Notice Mace almost beat the living shit out of him in Labyrinth of Evil even despite a shock and surprise assault.

But if a force choke to his organ sack somehow effects his nonorganic body's performance in a battle, that's news to me.


Yes, Grievous was damaged. I've not read Labyrinth of Evil, but, in the final episode of the Clone Wars, (which lead directly into the events of RotS) Mace used a Force Choke against Grievous, and that is why he developed his cough. (This is also confirmed by the director in the special features). In RotS, Grievous was coughing almost constantly as a result of that attack, and his combat skills were suitably diminished as a result. In the episode of Clone Wars where he is fighting five Jedi, he is able to do so without having to split his arms and use all his sabers. He only does that in the final episode of Clone Wars because his primary hands where occupied, and it gave him a surprize advantage. In RotS however, he had to split his arms and use all his sabers just to face off against a single Jedi, so it is clear that the damage done by the Force Choke (in Clone Wars it was possible to see the chest plates buckling, which resulted in the cough) had also affected his fighting skills in some way.

Grievous is certainly exemplary under any circumstances - Count Dooku noted him as being particularly difficult to out-spar - but yes, he excels under the said conditions, when surprise and terror are on his side. I think I remember the thread where I first posted my original statement on this matter.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Yes, Grievous was damaged. I've not read Labyrinth of Evil, but, in the final episode of the Clone Wars, Mace used a Force Choke against Grievous, and that is why he developed his cough. (This is also confirmed by the director in the special features). In RotS, Grievous was coughing almost constantly as a result of that attack, and his combat skills were suitably diminished as a result. In the episode of Clone Wars where is is fighting five Jedi, he is able to do so without having to split his arms and use all his sabers. He only does that in the final episode of Clone Wars because his primary hands where occupied, and it gave him a surprize advantage. In RotS however, he had to split his arms and use all his sabers just to face off against a single Jedi, so it is clear that the damage done by the Force Choke (resulting in the cough) had also affected his fighting skills in some way.

That would be contradicted by LoE, in which. . . a hell of a lot of things happen way differently.