Super-Speed Fighting vs. REALITY

Gladiator can hyper-punch yada, yada, yada, smack a head off.
Superman will speed-blitz derrrrr, guts everywhere.
Shazam could speed-rush blah, blah, blah, eyes fall out.
Count Nefaria would ultra-speed-kick/punch duuuhhh, brain into pants.

I hate the entire speedster fighting argument. I have posted a ton of reasons why this is a joke logically, and even if it is sued, why it would be useless or even dangerous to do this against a class 50 or higher fighter.
There are only a few characters that should be able to use this type of attack, and their speed is not the only ability they would need to do it.
I want to hear what you think.
Personally, I wouldn't allow this to be used in a fight I proposed.
But, that's me. But, hey! If I make the thread, I can set up the scenario.
Yay!

I'd like to hear why it's a joke, honestly... In some cases, it really is, but in many others, (the ones you included being good examples, actually)speed alone will end up winning the fight. Look at Flash, honestly. Or even Spiderman. Why can Spiderman beat so many people? They can't touch him. Speed is easily one of the most useful traits one can have in terms of fighting.

The speed fighting gets old for me. Its hardly ever used in comics except for the real speedsters, but in this forum it's the crux for many posts.

The whole Speed Blitz argument is honestly bunk the way someone described it to me. You can't throw haymakers at that speed. I'm trained in Boxing, Kickboxing, and Sambo, so I know how to throw a haymaker. You can't throw multiple ones at a quick speed, no matter how fast you are. The physics just don't work. You could probably jab really fast, but not haymaker. Also, the word is tossed around so much, some people think anyone could do it, i.e. Mider saying Slade could speedblitz someone.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
The whole Speed Blitz argument is honestly bunk the way someone described it to me. You can't throw haymakers at that speed. I'm trained in Boxing, Kickboxing, and Sambo, so I know how to throw a haymaker. You can't throw multiple ones at a quick speed, no matter how fast you are. The physics just don't work. You could probably jab really fast, but not haymaker. Also, the word is tossed around so much, some people think anyone could do it, i.e. Mider saying Slade could speedblitz someone.

It depends. Slade is definitely fast enough to blitz a normal human from a fairly short distance...

And the speedblitz, while it IS the most useful tactic for many, many characters, makes for very boring comics. Even Flash hardly ever utilizes it. The point is never to throw haymakers, except for some circumstances. (IMP, anyone?) Speedblitz is basically running/flying fist first into someone so as to knock them out, or using powers to do the same. (energy blasts and such)

And TS, honestly, even someone like Quicksilver should be able to throw 50 haymakers in the time it takes me or you to get a jab out there. To a point, haymakers are always going to be slow, but speedsters are WELL beyond that point. They can throw one, recover, and throw another and so on, well before you or I could hope to even process the fact taht we just got hit in the face a whole bunch of times. When one moves at mach 10, physics that apply to humans really don't matter that much. I'll agree, the aforementioned Slade or someone like Spiderman probably wouldn't be able to throw more than one very quickly, but Flash? Superman? It's not even comparable.

I'm trained in Boxing, Kickboxing, and Sambo, so I know how to throw a haymaker.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I'd like to hear why it's a joke, honestly... In some cases, it really is, but in many others, (the ones you included being good examples, actually)speed alone will end up winning the fight. Look at Flash, honestly. Or even Spiderman. Why can Spiderman beat so many people? They can't touch him. Speed is easily one of the most useful traits one can have in terms of fighting.

two words to explain Flash and Kid Flash and almost all of the speedsters in DCU doing what they do: Speed Force. Pick up a Flash comic Horrificus!

As I posted in the thread of Triathlon vs. Captain America in response to Batdude123:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by batdude123
^ Actually, if you re-read some of the posts, Triathlon can run over 100mph. And besides, you realize that during the fight, Triathlon is gonna have three times the reaction time and three times the reflexes as Captain, right?

My Reply:
He is still going to exist, so the effects of his mass with gravity and momentum are still going to happen.
We aren't talking about a special speed power. Just three times the stuff as captain america.
He can't run around in tight circles at 100 mph, hitting and kicking.
It has nothing to do with reaction time or strength. It has to do with everything from your feet up, getting thrown off balance.

Try this-
Stand up in your living room, and run around as fast as you can in little circles, punching and kicking into the middle of the circle.
(here's a tip: Be ready to call 911, and don't let anybody see you)

With the Flashes it would make sense. It wouldn't make much sense for Superman or Wonderwoman.

Superman cause he's plenty durable with his bio-aura. and do i really need to explain Wonder Woman and her powers that were MAGICALLY-endowed and given to her by THE GREEK GODS.

and really if you try to put realworld science or logic into comics why is Wolverine not some giant Cancer blob due to his enhanced regenerative powers? and how did Bruce Banner survive the Gamma Bomb in order to become the Hulk or how the heck is Batman not like breaking his leg every time he kicks a brick wall or a tree. there are an endless number of them. no point in trying it for one power and not other heroes. its just all in the imagination.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
two words to explain Flash and Kid Flash and almost all of the speedsters in DCU doing what they do: Speed Force. Pick up a Flash comic Horrificus!

As you can see with my thread, I agree that they, and SOME other characters can potentially do this stuff. But, it has to do with more than just being fast.
But, thanks for the "Pick up a comic Horrificus!" jab! That one never gets old, no matter how many times I see people use it in these forums.
You have, evidently, seen through my facade, and are privy to the fact that I know nothing of comics, nor am I one to PICK ONE UP, as it were.
I am reduced to a crushed, pitiful Wannabe Comic Bookier, (as it is referred to in Europe).
Bravo!

That's actually a very good point. I don't think you should've added fliers into the equation, as, while it is a bit of a cheap win, a speedblitz with guys like Superman is not only possible, it's the easiest thing for him to do in most cases.

However, even with Triathlon, I'd think that he could probably run in a circle and punch and kick the middle of it moderately fast. Not at his top running speed, but I don't think any speedsters really do. For guys like Flash, vibrating intangible is like hopping back and forth casually to us. For Triathlon, what is sprinting in a circle and punching and kicking the middle is walking in a circle and punching and kicking the middle. As long as he gets his foot down to change his direction, I don't see why he couldn't conceivably keep up a pretty good pace while dancing around Cap. I agree that Quicksilver should never be clocked at his absolute potential (mach 10ish) while hitting someone repeatedly, but to me or you, what IS the difference between mach 2 and mach 10? The only problem I see with your logic is that it assumes all speedsters always operate at a full out, maximum speed sprint. Other than that, it really is something to think about...

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and really if you try to put realworld science or logic into comics why is Wolverine not some giant Cancer blob due to his enhanced regenerative powers? and how did Bruce Banner survive the Gamma Bomb in order to become the Hulk or how the heck is Batman not like breaking his leg every time he kicks a brick wall or a tree. there are an endless number of them. no point in trying it for one power and not other heroes. its just all in the imagination.

Why did Batman kick a tree? Plus, he has Bat Legs! Hehe.

Anyway, I thought that at one time, the Hulk's physique was actually described as being basically cancerous in nature.

And, I don't think Wolverin is even a real person. He is probably just a comic book character, so I'm not really interested in how this argument effects him.

😉

no i'm not trying to make fun of you or offend you in any way but seriously how could you think know anything about the flash and ask all these questions about the nature of his powers when it is explained away, kind of half heartedly with no science, but it should suffice enough to answer your question. In all seriousness you mustn't either do your research and/or read any Flash books to ask such a question. thats all i am saying. no point in trying to put real world logic in worlds created with the intent to make money by taking people out of our reality to worlds where such laws and concepts such as gravity and logic can be broken. :end philisophical ramble: 😄

Originally posted by Horrificus
Excellent.
You actually picked my two examples of speed-fighting actually being possible.
Spiderman - Super speed, super strength to help him catch himself, keep his balance and recover. And, what makes it all possible?
The the power that allows him to get a Super Grip with his feet and hands. This, with his strength, would allow him to to redirect his weight and direction instantly. No slipping, no momentum carrying him away from the target. But, then again, we don't see him moving as fast as he can, like a battering ram, and plowing into anybody. This would probably be very bad for him.
Flash - Actually has control of "Speed". This is not just a "fast guy". Flash has control of speed at an almost metaphysical level. He actually controls where and how he interacts with space.
But, one of the problems I see with this type of character and this type of attack, would be:
We always see that when a character does the thousands of superfast punches thing being able to break through armor, metals, and doing damage on super strong, durable guys.
Why isn't it also pulverizing the hands of the speedster? Logic would say that these guys would actually have to be more durable, and tougher than the guys they are hitting.
In other words, the Flash would have to be more durable and denser than Superman, if this was to work on Superman.
Get me?
Other guys that could potentially pull this off, would be guys that control gravity, space, magnetism, and the like. But we still have the toughness problem I described.

dude, you are preaching to the choir here

check the quote in my sig, there have been countless times i have gotten dragged into pointless arguments about comic physics, or who should be able to do what

while yes, quicksilver hitting iron man on the BEST day at normal speeds should hurt his hand, there is a certain level of disbelief that needs to be suspended in these arguments.

My favorite example would be batman, a peakhuman, SNAPPING the neck of a trained attack jaguar. Honestly........ BARF

I'm not sure where the line between comic physics and real physics should cross, so I do appreciate your argument, and i encourage it in threads (gotta keep it interesting😛), but, comics aren't or shouldn't be attempting to recreate reality. Its the fact that they are sureal and imaginative that we, or at least I, really enjoy them. I don't need the writers to hold 4 degrees in chemestry and physics, but, on the same note, it is nice when it does come down to earth and isnt just "person X has this genetic mutation"

yeah its all fake anyway no need to talk about the physics of the powers.

Originally posted by Dizzle
That's actually a very good point. I don't think you should've added fliers into the equation, as, while it is a bit of a cheap win, a speedblitz with guys like Superman is not only possible, it's the easiest thing for him to do in most cases.

However, even with Triathlon, I'd think that he could probably run in a circle and punch and kick the middle of it moderately fast. Not at his top running speed, but I don't think any speedsters really do. For guys like Flash, vibrating intangible is like hopping back and forth casually to us. For Triathlon, what is sprinting in a circle and punching and kicking the middle is walking in a circle and punching and kicking the middle. As long as he gets his foot down to change his direction, I don't see why he couldn't conceivably keep up a pretty good pace while dancing around Cap. I agree that Quicksilver should never be clocked at his absolute potential (mach 10ish) while hitting someone repeatedly, but to me or you, what IS the difference between mach 2 and mach 10? The only problem I see with your logic is that it assumes all speedsters always operate at a full out, maximum speed sprint. Other than that, it really is something to think about...

I see where you are coming from, but I'mnot assuming that characters are always using full speed. Actually, part of my argument is how forum members use the full speed of the characters as part of the equation of a fight.
As you saw, somebody basically described how Triathlon would run around Cap at 100 mph, (which I suppose is Triathlons fastest).
After I pictured it in my head, and stopped laughing, I came up with the argument that you can't use the top speeds of most of these people in a fight.
That is like saying that, because my motorcycle can go 145 mph on a straight-away, I should also be able to use it on a battlefield, with a sword, and go round and round, sword fighting at 145 mph.
And, I have tried it. I got hurt.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
no i'm not trying to make fun of you or offend you in any way but seriously how could you think know anything about the flash and ask all these questions about the nature of his powers when it is explained away, kind of half heartedly with no science, but it should suffice enough to answer your question. In all seriousness you mustn't either do your research and/or read any Flash books to ask such a question. thats all i am saying. no point in trying to put real world logic in worlds created with the intent to make money by taking people out of our reality to worlds where such laws and concepts such as gravity and logic can be broken. :end philisophical ramble: 😄

Dude, I'm just messing with ya. Having fun. Don't worry, stomp on my toes all ya want. This is all in good fun!