Super-Speed Fighting vs. REALITY

cool your alright man. one of the nicest yet objective people on this forum. But i'm better 😉 😛 😄

Originally posted by inamilist
dude, you are preaching to the choir here

check the quote in my sig, there have been countless times i have gotten dragged into pointless arguments about comic physics, or who should be able to do what

while yes, quicksilver hitting iron man on the BEST day at normal speeds should hurt his hand, there is a certain level of disbelief that needs to be suspended in these arguments.

My favorite example would be batman, a peakhuman, SNAPPING the neck of a trained attack jaguar. Honestly........ BARF

I'm not sure where the line between comic physics and real physics should cross, so I do appreciate your argument, and i encourage it in threads (gotta keep it interesting😛), but, comics aren't or shouldn't be attempting to recreate reality. Its the fact that they are sureal and imaginative that we, or at least I, really enjoy them. I don't need the writers to hold 4 degrees in chemestry and physics, but, on the same note, it is nice when it does come down to earth and isnt just "person X has this genetic mutation"

I agree.
I just don't like the speed-fighting tactic to always be a catch-all.
Whenever a character is outmatched, if possible, somebody pulls the speed-card, and makes some crazy claim that has either never happened before, never happened before to their character, or never happened before to the character being attacked by the speedster, so there is no evidence of it being a possible tactic.

Ah, for a perfect world...

As long as everybody is now arguing and agitated,

my work here is done...

Originally posted by inamilist
dude, you are preaching to the choir here

check the quote in my sig, there have been countless times i have gotten dragged into pointless arguments about comic physics, or who should be able to do what

Hey, that's a sweet quote... (sorry, had to)

while yes, quicksilver hitting iron man on the BEST day at normal speeds should hurt his hand, there is a certain level of disbelief that needs to be suspended in these arguments.

This is definitely the best anti-speedster argument out there- Why in hell don't they kill themselves? Flash is protected by the speed force, but other than that, there really is no explanation for it. Quicksilver has enhanced durability in his hands, feet, and eyes as well, but there's definitely others who should really just splatter themselves whenever they start attacking a high durability foe. (Northstar does come to mind...)

My favorite example would be batman, a peakhuman, SNAPPING the neck of a trained attack jaguar. Honestly........ BARF

It was an attack leopard. 😐 And it bit Batman's glove, so Batman pulled its head to the side and snapped its neck. Given what a peak human entails, I see that being pretty feasible. (the physical act of snapping its neck, not the leopard being stupid enough to let the hold it had on a glove be the thing to kill it) The better one was where Batman jumped on the back of a trained tiger and choked it. Or downed an entire hallway full of physically and mentally enhanced (they were smart) gorillas. Why does he do this? He's Batman, and they're comics.

I'm not sure where the line between comic physics and real physics should cross, so I do appreciate your argument, and i encourage it in threads (gotta keep it interesting😛), but, comics aren't or shouldn't be attempting to recreate reality. Its the fact that they are sureal and imaginative that we, or at least I, really enjoy them. I don't need the writers to hold 4 degrees in chemestry and physics, but, on the same note, it is nice when it does come down to earth and isnt just "person X has this genetic mutation"

Agreed. There's a fine line between what one does in comics and what one SHOULD be able to do, based on their powers. Within a comic based forum, I'd typically opt to go with comic physics instead of real world ones, but that's just me.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree.
I just don't like the speed-fighting tactic to always be a catch-all.
Whenever a character is outmatched, if possible, somebody pulls the speed-card, and makes some crazy claim that has either never happened before, never happened before to their character, or never happened before to the character being attacked by the speedster, so there is no evidence of it being a possible tactic.

Ah, for a perfect world...

absolutly

your motorcycle comparison is perfect, if someone can move fast, it by no means shows that they can fight fast

there is an argument for reflexes and reaction or whatever, but its really moot and im not in the mood to nit pick 🙂

cheers

Don't yall know??! Momentum died in comics years ago. The only ones who worry about its ghost nowadays are the badguys.....Goodguys can't be bothered with such a trivial law of movement.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Hey, that's a sweet quote... (sorry, had to)

😛 self indulgent bastard.....

Originally posted by Dizzle
This is definitely the best anti-speedster argument out there- Why in hell don't they kill themselves? Flash is protected by the speed force, but other than that, there really is no explanation for it. Quicksilver has enhanced durability in his hands, feet, and eyes as well, but there's definitely others who should really just splatter themselves whenever they start attacking a high durability foe. (Northstar does come to mind...)[/B]

lol, that QS durability thing really makes me laugh. Personally, I think they shouldn't even bother, its more silly imho for a hero to have such token durability just so that people cant make fun of it than for him to just be a speedster...

Originally posted by Dizzle
It was an attack leopard. 😐 And it bit Batman's glove, so Batman pulled its head to the side and snapped its neck. Given what a peak human entails, I see that being pretty feasible. (the physical act of snapping its neck, not the leopard being stupid enough to let the hold it had on a glove be the thing to kill it) The better one was where Batman jumped on the back of a trained tiger and choked it. Or downed an entire hallway full of physically and mentally enhanced (they were smart) gorillas. Why does he do this? He's Batman, and they're comics.[/B]

lol, he is batman....

I don't know if i agree with you about the leopard though. However, its been shown many times before that the term "Peakhuman" has little to do with "human"

Originally posted by Dizzle
Agreed. There's a fine line between what one does in comics and what one SHOULD be able to do, based on their powers. Within a comic based forum, I'd typically opt to go with comic physics instead of real world ones, but that's just me. [/B]

yup. I'm unhappy that there was a big move to sort of justify all the scientific paradoxes of superpowers....(especially on marvel, I really only read their stuff until recently, and really only sporatically before then, so if I'm off here, let me know). It sorta cheapens the genre for me... but then again... I do love science.... 😉 😆

bam!

This is what I think of speed blitzing. shit

Well in comics Supes has been clocked at faster than light speed. So since it is an on panel feat, then he is able to use it as a tactic in the vs fights on this forum.

I am not saying full potential Superman can exceed light speed if he were correctly written, or if full potential flash yada yada yada.

On panel, Supes has speedblitz capabilities that exceed light speed, so as stated by forum rules, all characters bloodlusted, supes can and will use speedblitz and kill.

So many people say Supes can beat this guy up but he loses because he is too moral. Well bullshit, it doesn't count on this forum.

As for the physics, It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't have to because its all fictional...
Unless there is such a thing as the speedforce and power cosmic... 😉

I think what we need to do is look at some of the feats on here and register whether they're PIS or not, or if someone is moving to their fullest potential. That way we can sift through the crap.

Superman can easily travel sublight speeds without much effort. This is much faster than the speed of thought.

Superman has also been shown to be able to travel faster than the speed of light.

Flash of course is freaking fast.

and so the list keeps going on and on.

Speedblitz is a legit tactic since it is a legit power that can be called upon.

I am not saying it is fair or fun, but if I could insta-speedblitz-kill I would use the power (for good). 🙄

Reality and super speed fighting in comics are about as comparable as horses are to flying fire-breathing hippopotami.

Hmm...couple of things.

First of all, I think even worse than superspeed fighting is this "vibrating through stuff" bit. Where an Earth did This idea originate?? At least speed fighting has a lower-order analogy in what we ordinary mortals can do. But moving so fast that you can move through things?? wtf? This is pure comic physics...which is okay (more/less), as is the whole superspeed fighting thing to begin with. I mean, if a guy is superfast, he's gonna use it.

But possibly, it is not used as often as it "should be" because, maybe, it is a more difficult power for a speedster to use (eg, in Superman's case, it uses up proportionally more of his solar energy than his superstrength does). It may be "more natural" for Spiderman to fight fast than it is for Superman, though Superman can move faster.

Secondly, when an object moves very fast (approaching lightspeed), it increases in mass. Frankly, if Flash is gonna hit someone at 99%c, it only has to be once because his arm will be as massive as a mountain, all this velocity-induced density also keeping his arm from being reduced to pulp (that is, even if there was no speedforce already protecting him).

Speedblitz is legitimate, for better/worse, even if it would make for less exciting stories. But then, this Is, Was and Always Will Be the problem with superpowerful characters. PIS/CIS is inevitable, otherwise you simply can't keep writing fun fighting scenarios.

for true super speedsters its a totally different story...cuz wally west has said on many ocassions that life is like a dvd player to him and he's the remote, he can stop, slow motion and fast forward time at will... cus his perceptions is that advanced. even when he was foot racing superman, supes was nipping at his heels and flash was like his perceptions hasnt cuaght up to mine yet...even in that spiderman movie after tobey got bit and he was fighting flash in the hallway and he was dodging his punches, you see all the movements he was making in the short amount of time..

...the moral of the story is comic book speedsters sensory perceptions are hieghtened to such a ridiculous measure that they actually see the world in slow motion, just like flys do in the real world, and thier bodies are adapted to move to the extent to keep up with thier minds.. thats why you've heard the likes of slade, spiderman superman and flash make mention that they see things in slow mo.

Originally posted by Mindship
Hmm...couple of things.

First of all, I think even worse than superspeed fighting is this "vibrating through stuff" bit. Where an Earth did This idea originate?? At least speed fighting has a lower-order analogy in what we ordinary mortals can do. But moving so fast that you can move through things?? wtf? This is pure comic physics...which is okay (more/less), as is the whole superspeed fighting thing to begin with. I mean, if a guy is superfast, he's gonna use it.

But possibly, it is not used as often as it "should be" because, maybe, it is a more difficult power for a speedster to use (eg, in Superman's case, it uses up proportionally more of his solar energy than his superstrength does). It may be "more natural" for Spiderman to fight fast than it is for Superman, though Superman can move faster.

Secondly, when an object moves very fast (approaching lightspeed), it increases in mass. Frankly, if Flash is gonna hit someone at 99%c, it only has to be once because his arm will be as massive as a mountain, all this velocity-induced density also keeping his arm from being reduced to pulp (that is, even if there was no speedforce already protecting him).

Speedblitz is legitimate, for better/worse, even if it would make for less exciting stories. But then, this Is, Was and Always Will Be the problem with superpowerful characters. PIS/CIS is inevitable, otherwise you simply can't keep writing fun fighting scenarios.

But, just as an FYI, you proved my point.
If Flash's arm has become as massive as a mountain, you now have to explain how Flash can carry a mountain at the speed of light.

Have there been ant instances when Superman or Gladiator have used their speed on the ground in a battle? Just wondering.

Originally posted by Horrificus
But, just as an FYI, you proved my point.
If Flash's arm has become as massive as a mountain, you now have to explain how Flash can carry a mountain at the speed of light.

If a starship were accelerating, as it flew faster it would get heavier. In turn it would require ever more energy to accelerate. The ship better be carrying its own fuel source (highly impractical) or get it from space (eg, Bussard ramjet).

Flash would need terajoules of energy. He's lucky he has that speedforce.