Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]Ofcourse Revan didnt face the fleet, I dont think anyone is capable of defeating that...'cept DE Sidious 😛
Revan *did* face the the armies within the star forge, remember when Malak says to send all available troops to stop him? After all the troops are wasted, Malak also sends all available sith, which again are all wasted...*After* that, Revan has to fight what Malak called "the full power of the star forge' when he fights all those auto-pumping droid generators. And Revan still has the energy to kick Malaks ass ten times in a row...
Maybe in your game. In MY game I had T3 and Mission Vao kill all the Dark Jedi and troops while Revan stood there. Then I killed the bare minimum of three droids. After that set a bunch of mines for Malak to run into, they exploded, he healed, then we fought. I got my assed kicked like 10 times, but luckily his dead jedi kept healing me! I then finished Malak by chucking a grenade at him.
lol see what revan did there? [/B]
Lol I suppose that is possible...
But the way the game is *supposed* to be played, Revan is a badass that defeats liek everyone. 😐
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Malak believed that there would be no way in hell that Revan would be stopped by the hundreds (or thousands) of dark jedi and advanced battle droids. He believed that they would only be able to slow him down and give Malak the time he needed to prepare for their battle. So it is clear that Malak had a pretty high opinion of him. Yet once Revan defeats him, he states that he had previously UNDERESTIMATED him and that if he had uncovered the secrets of the star forge himself, would have become invincible. So Malak's underestimated idea of Revan would easily be able to battle through a fortress of dark jedi and advance battle droids. Now imagine how powerful Revan really must have been. Now imagine how powerful Revan (during his reign of dark lord of the sith) must have been.
Malak believed that there would be no way in hell that Revan would be stopped by the hundreds (or thousands) of dark jedi and advanced battle droids.
The droids weren't impressive at all. And of course they couldn't stop him! He sent them two at a time! And we don't know how many Dark Jedi were on the Star Forge in the first place. The bare minimum was 6.
He believed that they would only be able to slow him down and give Malak the time he needed to prepare for their battle. So it is clear that Malak had a pretty high opinion of him.
See above.
Yet once Revan defeats him, he states that he had previously UNDERESTIMATED him and that if he had uncovered the secrets of the star forge himself, would have become invincible.
I don't remember him saying the last part. Source.
So Malak's underestimated idea of Revan would easily be able to battle through a fortress of dark jedi and advance battle droids.
You can't quantify the number of Dark Jedi on the Star Forge. There would have most likely been many, but that remained to be seen.
Now imagine how powerful Revan really must have been. Now imagine how powerful Revan (during his reign of dark lord of the sith) must have been.
Weaker as Dark Lord for sure. Stronger once he regained his old knowledge though. Revan is quite powerful. Very powerful. Easily more powerful than Malak, Vrook, and most likely Vandar. But sometimes you guys overestimate.
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]Malak believed that there would be no way in hell that Revan would be stopped by the hundreds (or thousands) of dark jedi and advanced battle droids.The droids weren't impressive at all. And of course they couldn't stop him! He sent them two at a time! And we don't know how many Dark Jedi were on the Star Forge in the first place. The bare minimum was 6.
He believed that they would only be able to slow him down and give Malak the time he needed to prepare for their battle. So it is clear that Malak had a pretty high opinion of him.
See above.
Yet once Revan defeats him, he states that he had previously UNDERESTIMATED him and that if he had uncovered the secrets of the star forge himself, would have become invincible.
I don't remember him saying the last part. Source.
So Malak's underestimated idea of Revan would easily be able to battle through a fortress of dark jedi and advance battle droids.
You can't quantify the number of Dark Jedi on the Star Forge. There would have most likely been many, but that remained to be seen.
Now imagine how powerful Revan really must have been. Now imagine how powerful Revan (during his reign of dark lord of the sith) must have been.
Weaker as Dark Lord for sure. Stronger once he regained his old knowledge though. Revan is quite powerful. Very powerful. Easily more powerful than Malak, Vrook, and most likely Vandar. But sometimes you guys overestimate. [/B]
Ocelot...just give it up...
We arent overestimating him(ignore skyflyer), just giving him his proper due, which includes him being more powerful then Vandarr.
I agree with Great Vengeance here.
How on earth would Revan have gained such a high prestige as one of the greatest force users of his time, the best saber duelist of his time, and one of the most powerful Jedi of all time if he did *not* duel all the dark Jedi and star forge droids.
We know that Mission Vao or Carth would get raped by regular dark Jedi. Malak brushed Carth away with a wave of his hand, and subsequently froze Carth without event he slightest hint of effort. Canonically it would seem Revan dueled them down to the ground. The canon supports gameplay in this direction.
Afterall Revan was credited as a very powerful lightsaber and force user, not as a demolitions expert. 🙄
Originally posted by zephiel7
I agree with Great Vengeance here.How on earth would Revan have gained such a high prestige as one of the greatest force users of his time, the best saber duelist of his time, and one of the most powerful Jedi of all time if he did *not* duel all the dark Jedi and star forge droids.
We know that Mission Vao or Carth would get raped by regular dark Jedi. Malak brushed Carth away with a wave of his hand, and subsequently froze Carth without event he slightest hint of effort. Canonically it would seem Revan dueled them down to the ground. The canon supports gameplay in this direction.
Afterall Revan was credited as a very powerful lightsaber and force user, not as a demolitions expert. 🙄
Exactly, going by in-game references to Revans abilities, it is silly to think Revan went through the star forge the way Ocelot did in a canon timeline.
How on earth would Revan have gained such a high prestige as one of the greatest force users of his time, the best saber duelist of his time, and one of the most powerful Jedi of all time if he did *not* duel all the dark Jedi and star forge droids.
It's a solid bet that he did duel and defeat Dark Jedi on the star forge, but he was aided. 2 pairs of hands are a great help, even when you're as powerful as Revan.
As for the droids, no one knew how he disposed of them, so I doubt that contributed to his reputation.
We know that Mission Vao or Carth would get raped by regular dark Jedi. Malak brushed Carth away with a wave of his hand, and subsequently froze Carth without event he slightest hint of effort. Canonically it would seem Revan dueled them down to the ground. The canon supports gameplay in this direction.
Both then there are people like Jolee and Juhani, two other force users. HK47, a Jedi killer and Canderous, someone who can gun down a Jedi. I do not believe T3 and Mission did everything on the Star Forge. That would be foolish. However, game mechanics should not count as canon. Using his reputation to reinforce game events is one thing, but citing how you played the game as canonfact is another. Revan didn't even have to have had a lightsaber.
Again, don't get me wrong. Revan was most likely > Vandar. But the topic is about Vrook and Malak.
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]How on earth would Revan have gained such a high prestige as one of the greatest force users of his time, the best saber duelist of his time, and one of the most powerful Jedi of all time if he did *not* duel all the dark Jedi and star forge droids.It's a solid bet that he did duel and defeat Dark Jedi on the star forge, but he was aided. 2 pairs of hands are a great help, even when you're as powerful as Revan.
As for the droids, no one knew how he disposed of them, so I doubt that contributed to his reputation.
We know that Mission Vao or Carth would get raped by regular dark Jedi. Malak brushed Carth away with a wave of his hand, and subsequently froze Carth without event he slightest hint of effort. Canonically it would seem Revan dueled them down to the ground. The canon supports gameplay in this direction.
Both then there are people like Jolee and Juhani, two other force users. HK47, a Jedi killer and Canderous, someone who can gun down a Jedi. I do not believe T3 and Mission did everything on the Star Forge. That would be foolish. However, game mechanics should not count as canon. Using his reputation it one thing, but citing how you played the game is another. Revan didn't even have to have had a lightsaber.
Again, don't get me wrong. Revan was most likely > Vandar. But the topic is about Vrook and Malak. [/B]
Then what *exactly* are you trying to argue here...Please dont waste our time.
Ocelot, then you agree Revan was duelling all the Jedi in the Star Forge. Admittedly, he may have had the contribution of two members from his team, but the victory would not possibly have happened if he weren't there. Two of Revan's helpers don't seem to stand much chance against an army of dark Jedi and a near unlimited supply of Star Forge droids credited for being able to kill regular Jedi Kngihts.(yes this includes people like Juhani and Jolee)
Also account for the fact that he was isolated in a room where the Star Forge droids literally surrounded him. Revan battled them all alone (so this accounts again that the early fights were won LARGELY due to his prescence)
Again, don't get me wrong. Revan was most likely > Vandar. But the topic is about Vrook and Malak.
Agreed
Ocelot, then you agree Revan was duelling all the Jedi in the Star Forge. Admittedly, he may have had the contribution of two members from his team, but the victory would not possibly have happened if he weren't there. Two of Revan's helpers don't seem to stand much chance against an army of dark Jedi and a near unlimited supply of Star Forge droids credited for being able to kill regular Jedi Kngihts
Of course I agree.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
You want proof Revan faced an army? Play the game...You want proof Vandarr couldnt do the same? There is no hard proof, but its illogical to think Vandarr has the kind of power Revan had. I think your basing your argument on the fact that Vandarr is the same species as Yoda and that he has the same 'uber powers' but that is an invalid stance to take without, like you said, seeing Vandarr in any kind of combat.
First, I played The Empire Strikes Back for SNES... omg... Did Luke beat a million storm troopers and jawas? I played Jedi Academy... omg... did Jaden Korr kill hundreds of storm troopers, mercenaries, sand people, and saber users? They must be GODS!
Really, there IS such a thing as a game play mechanic. There is no CANONICAL evidence of Revan defeating anyone other than Bastila and Malak on the Star Forge. What does that mean? It means he could have possibly snuck past them, tricked them, let the jedi knights take the brunt of the attack, butchered them all... we don't know. But instead of assuming that he DID kill all of them and that the enemies we fight in game aren't just filler and part of the gameplay mechanic is called being ridiculous. I mean, if you want to take gameplay mechanics as canon, none of the vendors had wares on their shelves, yet when you talk to them, three dozens weapons and items pop up. Apparently, they keep all their wares in a small subdimensional pocket. zomG! teh gaem kanon!
Second, provide the logic that states conclusively that Vandar cannot be powerful enough to defeat Revan or hold his own in similar circumstances. Until you do that, you have NO case.
Third, don't try and "read into" my posts and procure shit I didn't say. I pointed out before that I wasn't voted for or against Vandar; only pointing out that you have no case either way. You cannot just make a mound of assumptions on Vandar's power, say he could never hold a candle to Revan, and then say Malak pwns because of that.