DE Sidious vs. Ulic Qel Droma

Originally posted by zephiel7
How do you know Qel Droma is a better duelist than DE Luke?

Because DE Luke still isn't that good?

Eh? Sidious lost to a Luke whose powers were being amplified by those of Leia.

Notice how the room gets progressively darker, up until the point we see Sidious pin Luke up against the wall. We then see Leia, surrounded by light, and Luke breaks the lock, as well as the darkness, which is visible through the scattering of the dark in the next panel.

Ah yes, because amplifying Force powers all of a sudden makes him a god of lightsaber combat... oh, wait.

Seriously, explain to me how Leia's assistance suddenly puts Luke at the level of a competant duelist?

The first time they dueled, Sidious put Luke on his ass.

I don't think Palpatine is dramatically out of practice at all. I'll say that he takes it all three times more often than not.

I'm not surprised he put Luke "Strikeout King" Skywalker on his ass, but that doesn't instantly mean that he's still in practice in lightsaber combat. If anything, it shows that, even in a diminished state, Palpatine's training was far more complete than Luke's was at that point.

Originally posted by IKC
Ah yes, because amplifying Force powers all of a sudden makes him a god of lightsaber combat... oh, wait.

Seriously, explain to me how Leia's assistance suddenly puts Luke at the level of a competant duelist?

If you'd actually looked at the panel, you'd see it yourself.

I'm not surprised he put Luke "Strikeout King" Skywalker on his ass,

Of course: the Skywalker sobriquet. I suppose that's to be expected anytime Luke is brought up in this forum. But if you must, at least use one that makes sense.

but that doesn't instantly mean that he's still in practice in lightsaber combat. If anything, it shows that, even in a diminished state, Palpatine's training was far more complete than Luke's was at that point.

I'm sure that's why an earlier incarnation of Luke is capable of attacking at blinding speed with his lightsaber: at least, he is if your vaunted image blurs equate to speed.

As to Palpatine's training being more complete than Luke's, no sh*t. He's only had sixty-five years as of RotS, two additional decades of soaking up what was looted from the Temple, and between four and five more years after his ''fall'' on the Death Star II. Luke first touched a lightsaber. . . ten years prior to DE. Hurray for stating the obvious!

1. If Sidious really moves so fast you can't see him, he beats Ulic.
2. Sidious pwns
3. Sidious wins

Stating that Ulic is better than DE Luke is pure speculation, as usual. Stating Ulic could defeat Palpatine in a saber combat, is opinion. Stating Ulic could defeat DE Sidious in a force battle is pure ignorance at best.

a Luke with 9 years of pretty much self taught training is not going to surpass a Sith Lord who spent their entire life being taught and studying Lightsaber combat.

1) Ulic wins
2) DE Sidious wins
3) DE Sidious takes it more often than not ( Depends if Ulic can close the distance)

Maybe so, actually most likely yea, but what puts Ulic above DE Sidious?

Originally posted by tdtd
Maybe so, actually most likely yea, but what puts Ulic above DE Sidious?

Up until DE, what put Luke ahead of DE Sidious?

Let's not be silly here, if you are ignorant, don't MAKE CONCLUSIONS from ignorance.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Up until DE, what put Luke ahead of DE Sidious?

Let's not be silly here, if you are ignorant, don't MAKE CONCLUSIONS from ignorance.

Who put Luke above DE Sidious? What are you talking about? I'm asking what puts Ulic above DE Sidious?

He isn't *above* DE Sidious, if you recall Dooku is likely a superior duelist to Sidious, but its unlikely he was overall superior. And I'm not saying Ulic will have an easy time to fight Sidious in lightsaber combat, but after a gruelling long battle its likely Ulic comes out on top more often than not.

Really its the 3rd fight that justifies who's superior, and like most people have stated DE Sidious is superior.

Originally posted by tdtd
Who put Luke above DE Sidious? What are you talking about? I'm asking what puts Ulic above DE Sidious?

Doh. Let's try to understand analogies here.

What did Luke (as of DE) have on DE Sidious? Not much, yet he still managed to cut off his hand.

Ulic demonstrated a more impressive saber feat than Luke did up until that point.

Originally posted by Deception
He isn't *above* DE Sidious, if you recall Dooku is likely a superior duelist to Sidious, but its unlikely he was overall superior. And I'm not saying Ulic will have an easy time to fight Sidious in lightsaber combat, but after a gruelling long battle its likely Ulic comes out on top more often than not.

Really its the 3rd fight that justifies who's superior, and like most people have stated DE Sidious is superior.

Dooku was superior to ROTS Sidious, and unless you're sayin ROTS Sidious=DE Sidious, then that's not a valid response, as DE Sidious was beyond ROTS/ROTJ Sidious...

Originally posted by Illustrious
Doh. Let's try to understand analogies here.

What did Luke (as of DE) have on DE Sidious? Not much, yet he still managed to cut off his hand.

Ulic demonstrated a more impressive saber feat than Luke did up until that point.

You're right Illustrious, Leia's battle meditation played no part in this fight..

In terms of Lightsaber combat we have nothing but speculation, its clear that he was in terms of Force Power. But Dooku being the Makashi master he is, has a better chance of winning.

Another point is you state that he moves faster than the eye can see, its unsupported hyperbole from Leia, so thus it cannot be considered "proof" that Sidious was superior to his ROTS counterpart in terms of Lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Up until DE, what put Luke ahead of DE Sidious?

Let's not be silly here, if you are ignorant, don't MAKE CONCLUSIONS from ignorance.

Ignorance is tdtds way of life. Do be tolerant of other peoples beliefs, Illustrious.

Originally posted by tdtd
You're right Illustrious, Leia's battle meditation played no part in this fight..

Leia's battle meditation gave Luke lightsaber skills?

Right but I can turn around and say he was younger with even more force knowledge than before.

Originally posted by tdtd
You're right Illustrious, Leia's battle meditation played no part in this fight..

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Ignorance is tdtds way of life. Do be tolerant of other peoples beliefs, Illustrious.

How many times do you have to embarass yourself, and how many times do I have to embarass you? Don't type unless you want to be laughed at.

And Illustrious I was pointing out that although DE Sidious was the better fighter, the battle meditation gave Luke more confidence, since that is what it does.

Battle Meditation doesnt it give more focus and concentration on top of more confidence?

That's my point.