Kain, Arthas, Dante run a gauntlet

this is getting tiresome
1. that isnt wat i meant...i meant that now that sageras is now gone, the lich king can take his place as 'one of the most powerful entities', etc..that doesnt mean that he is more powerful..it means that he is powerful enough to take out everyone he is pitted against in this thread.

2. in the LOK world porphecies tend to become true...kain has had his heart ripped out, been 'killed' by the hylden lord, who had used the soul reaver against him. sure he took a while to recover, but the point is that he did recover..kain cannot die, because history wont let him until he has forefilled the prophecy and hasbecome the scion of balance..he is detatched from the wheel of fate until he has done so..

3. neck snapping is neck snapping...the brain is detached from the rest of the body, killing it instantly..it has the same effect as chopping someones head off...

Originally posted by MadMel
this is getting tiresome
1. that isnt wat i meant...i meant that now that sageras is now gone, the lich king can take his place as 'one of the most powerful entities', etc..that doesnt mean that he is more powerful..it means that he is powerful enough to take out everyone he is pitted against in this thread.

2. in the LOK world porphecies tend to become true...kain has had his heart ripped out, been 'killed' by the hylden lord, who had used the soul reaver against him. sure he took a while to recover, but the point is that he did recover..every time kain 'dies' he transforms into a cloud of bats and reforms..kain cannot die, because history wont let him until he has forefilled the prophecy and become the scion of balance..he is detatched from the wheel of fate until he has done so..

Oh belive me, you're not the only one getting tired....

1. So now your opinion is law? Because he can take almost anyone in the WC world he can beat anyone here? Please...

2. You don't get it, you can't use a prophecy as a weapon in this battle, if it is in another world or dimension where that prophecy does not exist, what happenes then? You clearly didn't get anything I compared with anyway....

Do you know why he keeps coming back? Isen't it that the elder gods brings him back and opens a portal for him to come back into? What happenes when the elder gods are not present. (Such as this duel). It is like saying that Tidus cannot die if he is not sent by a summoner to the far planes. So now we suddenly say that Tidus is invincible?

1. im basing this on all the lich king vs. threads there have been here...coupled with the fact that he has powerful allys on his side this time, yes i believe he could 'take' these people

2.the prophecy simply states..the facts are facts...one of kains abilities, along with mist, tk, etc, is that every time he dies, he becomes a cloud of bats and reforms..in the games i dont think kain himself knew how he could never die, despite the fact that he has been struck by the only weapon capable of changing history and sucking souls. kain didnt die, when every other thing in nosgoth would have..on top of that, the heart of darkness was ripped clean from his body...and yet he survived, again.

3. kain also has hundreads of years more experience than any other character here..even the lich king, who is..hang on, scratch that..i cant remember how old ner zul is..

Originally posted by MadMel
1. im basing this on all the lich king vs. threads there have been here...coupled with the fact that he has powerful allys on his side this time, yes i believe he could 'take' these people

2.the prophecy simply states..the facts are facts...one of kains abilities, along with mist, tk, etc, is that every time he dies, he becomes a cloud of bats and reforms..in the games i dont think kain himself knew how he could never die, despite the fact that he has been struck by the only weapon capable of changing history and sucking souls. kain didnt die, when every other thing in nosgoth would have..on top of that, the heart of darkness was ripped clean from his body...and yet he survived, again.

3. kain also has hundreads of years more experience than any other character here..even the lich king, who is..hang on, scratch that..i cant remember how old ner zul is..

1. And those threads are based on what. About this, "The Lich King is said to be around the most powerful so he will beat these guys". not much proof......

2. "As his last act, Raziel rejoined the complete and purified wraith blade with Kain's soul, healing Kain's gaping wound" He was wounded and got a pretty ****ed up sight, but never mind. He was not even aware that he could be reborned? Why is that? Well probably because he himself has nothing to do with it, it is others that control it, possibly gods or the prophecy itself. This is just because he is said to do something, to succeed something. But when that thing is succeeded or when that thing does not exist anymore, will he be reborned, no.

But just for the sake of it, can't we say that he can die? Ganondorf for example, cannot be killed by any of these guys, so it will be an endless battle. But if we say they both are killable, then there is more fun in the duel...

But I gotta go out now, I'll be on tonight..

Originally posted by kamikz
1. And those threads are based on what. About this, "The Lich King is said to be around the most powerful so he will beat these guys". not much proof......

2. "As his last act, Raziel rejoined the complete and purified wraith blade with Kain's soul, healing Kain's gaping wound" He was wounded and got a pretty ****ed up sight, but never mind. He was not even aware that he could be reborned? Why is that? Well probably because he himself has nothing to do with it, it is others that control it, possibly gods or the prophecy itself. This is just because he is said to do something, to succeed something. But when that thing is succeeded or when that thing does not exist anymore, will he be reborned, no.

But just for the sake of it, can't we say that he can die? Ganondorf for example, cannot be killed by any of these guys, so it will be an endless battle. But if we say they both are killable, then there is more fun in the duel...

Rasiel was the only one who could've killed Kain. At least evryone thought so because there was something uncertain in history of LOK world.

But Kain just can't die. You can't just take that away because it is the way he is. It's one of his powers. And compareing it with SW is just not right.

Originally posted by kamikz
1. And those threads are based on what. About this, "The Lich King is said to be around the most powerful so he will beat these guys". not much proof......

2. "As his last act, Raziel rejoined the complete and purified wraith blade with Kain's soul, healing Kain's gaping wound" He was wounded and got a pretty ****ed up sight, but never mind. He was not even aware that he could be reborned? Why is that? Well probably because he himself has nothing to do with it, it is others that control it, possibly gods or the prophecy itself. This is just because he is said to do something, to succeed something. But when that thing is succeeded or when that thing does not exist anymore, will he be reborned, no.

But just for the sake of it, can't we say that he can die? Ganondorf for example, cannot be killed by any of these guys, so it will be an endless battle. But if we say they both are killable, then there is more fun in the duel...

But I gotta go out now, I'll be on tonight..

2. no-one knows what will happen to kain once he has forefilled the prophecy..or even if he ever does..maybe he'll finnaly, after more than several milenia of life, rest in peace. maybe hell become ruler of nostgoth once again, only now in its golden age....only the develepors would know, and they're taking their time..the point is that he always seems to reborn, and therefore he has a very solid chance of winning..
and its already night here 😈 so ill see you tommorow

Originally posted by kamikz
Where does it say that he cannot die? Why did he escape Raziel so many times, avoiding to be "killed". There was even one time he could have killed him but he chose not to....

Also, apparently he could be wounded hence this quote, "As his last act, Raziel rejoined the complete and purified wraith blade with Kain's soul, healing Kain's gaping wound". But if there is something I'm missing then do tell me.....

And immortal does not mean invincible. The elves in Middle-Earth was immortal, but not near unkillable.

That wound came from when Raziel pulled his heart out in Avernus. It could also be figurative, referring to Kain's corruption from Nupraptor. Kain is also unkillable because according to the game Raziel is the only one with true free will. He was also destined to kill Kain, but stopped because of that free will.

When Raziel entered the sword he purified Kain's corruption, gave him the ability to see the Elder God, and free will. Kain is truly immortal except from Raziel. Proof of this is that when he dies you never get a game over screen, you just go back to the previous checkpoint in the form of bats.

wrong...i think...even to raziel free will was an illusion, he was doomed to be trapped in the soul reaver, be released, and repeat...he could delay it, but never escape that fate..raziel wasnt destined to kill kain..at least thats what i gather as he is both the vampire and hylden champions depicted on the walls of the chambers..but you are right about raziel being the only one capable of killing him, which is now ironic now as he is kains 'servant' again..at least this is what i gathered from the time twisting, history corupting story of nosgoth.

Actually Raziel did have free will. Raziel did get sucked into the soul reaver. The point is he allowed it to happen. Even if somebody had free will doesn't mean that they dictate everything. Raziel was always cautious when people claimed he had free will. It was true that was why he was always manipulated by everybody. Moebius himself said that Raziel had free will. Like I said before, Raziel having free will doesn't mean he controls fate. He can simply change it. He only has the ability to change his fate, not other peoples.

Originally posted by MadMel
1. good point....except for the fact that u left out the parts that did have evidense.....
- the lichking, without arthus, took the minds of hundreds of humans, forcing even the most powerful mages to do his bidding, he then used his plague powers to convert thousands more to undead...and took their minds too...he wiped out an entire species and raised them, and then he took their minds, his army slaughtered hundreds more, of all species and factions and then he raised them as undead, and..well u can kinda guess by now...this was the lich kings power. the only reason he was weakened temporarily because of a plan he devised to allow him to escape from the frozen throne and bond with his most powerful undead unit, arthus..he wouldnt have done it if it would have made him weaker, would it??

2. no-one knows what will happen to kain once he has forefilled the prophecy..or even if he ever does..maybe he'll finnaly, after more than several milenia of life, rest in peace. maybe hell become ruler of nostgoth once again, only now in its golden age....only the develepors would know, and they're taking their time..the point is that he always seems to reborn, and therefore he has a very solid chance of winning..
and its already night here 😈 so ill see you tommorow

1. So he can corrupt minds thanks to his army, that's good, except it won't help him in this fight. And I never ment he became weaker with Arthas combined with him, no vice versa, it is just that both were getting weaker and weaker. Though both, pretty powerful they still would not combine into something so awefully powerful it could take down anything. I don't see which powers will help him in this fight or a fight versus another powerful being.

2. But I still don't go with prophecys. They work for the games and that dimension itself, but when it is forced into another the same rules should not be used. There is also always a higher power for a prophecy, a prophecy doesen't just "exist". So in a neutral versus match on neutral grounds, I don't think that a prohpecy should be taken in the fight. Ganondorf is pretty invinsible against these guys too though, so no one will win even if Kain is unkillable....

Originally posted by samishe
Rasiel was the only one who could've killed Kain. At least evryone thought so because there was something uncertain in history of LOK world.

But Kain just can't die. You can't just take that away because it is the way he is. It's one of his powers. And compareing it with SW is just not right.

1. So he is killable? But Rasiel didn't just had the ability to kill him by defult did he? Wasen't it the elder gods who gave it to him? So the prophecy can be broken?

Oh but I can compare it to SW. It has the exact same thing, that Anakin "must" destroy the sith because he is the chosen one, chosen by the force (which surrounds everything, everything that happenes is the will of the force). And still, I don't go around saying, "Anakin pwns all".
And the point was that Ganondorf can't be killed by normal means either, especially not by "dark" powers, so we will have no winner, except if it shows up that Kain can be killed.....

Originally posted by kamikz
1. So he is killable? But Rasiel didn't just had the ability to kill him by defult did he? Wasen't it the elder gods who gave it to him? So the prophecy can be broken?

Oh but I can compare it to SW. It has the exact same thing, that Anakin "must" destroy the sith because he is the chosen one, chosen by the force (which surrounds everything, everything that happenes is the will of the force). And still, I don't go around saying, "Anakin pwns all".
And the point was that Ganondorf can't be killed by normal means either, especially not by "dark" powers, so we will have no winner, except if it shows up that Kain can be killed.....

No it's not the same. Dont compare Kain to SW.

Kain is not going to live because he is suppost to do something or because he is a chosenone. It's just been written in the history that Kain will live, so he never dies no matter what happens to him.

also anyone who thinks this team will lose will have to think about whether or not some of these characters have a brain or conciousness, since Arthas/Lich King has Mind power capable of controlling basically everything and that was when he was weakebed in the frozen throne and now he has a body no telling what he can control, bascially what ime saying is, is that Ganondorf probably has a brain and so could probably be controlled along with most characters pitted agaist these guys, death is not the only answer to everything 😮‍💨

Also Kain would not die, so even if for some strange reason some of the opponents could not be killed or mind controlled they still could not kill Kain, also it is debatable if the Lich King can actually be harmed since no one has seen his power as of yet, since he is undead and they are not usually harmed by natural means it is safe to say he could possibly be indestructible also, as well as the power he gets from having a body 😄

Originally posted by samishe
No it's not the same. Dont compare Kain to SW.

Kain is not going to live because he is suppost to do something or because he is a chosenone. It's just been written in the history that Kain will live, so he never dies no matter what happens to him.

In that case I say don't compare his prophecy with other dimensions that does not have prophecys.....

Yes, the Prince of Persia had it written in the timeline that he would die, but he changed his fate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
also anyone who thinks this team will lose will have to think about whether or not some of these characters have a brain or conciousness, since Arthas/Lich King has Mind power capable of controlling basically everything and that was when he was weakebed in the frozen throne and now he has a body no telling what he can control, bascially what ime saying is, is that Ganondorf probably has a brain and so could probably be controlled along with most characters pitted agaist these guys, death is not the only answer to everything 😮‍💨

Also Kain would not die, so even if for some strange reason some of the opponents could not be killed or mind controlled they still could not kill Kain, also it is debatable if the Lich King can actually be harmed since no one has seen his power as of yet, since he is undead and they are not usually harmed by natural means it is safe to say he could possibly be indestructible also, as well as the power he gets from having a body 😄

He cannot control anyone, and I don't think he can control Ganon either. And how would, combining his body with Arthas, improve his mind controling?

Yes they are, Humans defeated armys of undead. And that is a GIANT assumption, "because he increased in power he can likley not be killed"

Ill agree with you Kamikz, COMPLETLY

Originally posted by kamikz
He cannot control anyone, and I don't think he can control Ganon either. And how would, combining his body with Arthas, improve his mind controling?

Yes they are, Humans defeated armys of undead. And that is a GIANT assumption, "because he increased in power he can likley not be killed"

what do you mean by sayng he cannot control anyone, thats a ridiculous thing to say, he controls Arthas in the frozen throne,thousands if not millions of undead minds and mages, i should think most opponents here would be completly under the lich kings command as slaves.

also i didnt really mean to sound like his mind powers would increase from getting a physcial body, i just meant to say his overall power would increase. for instance, just by thinking it he created a corrupt plague inside the frozen throne, and this was when he had first begun learning his new powers, this plague bascially destroyed most of the human kingdoms and created an army for him. If he can do that then, then now combined with physcial existance before his enemies and the increase in power from years of training and filling his mind with the dead he is perhaps capable of Godlike power.

also keep in mind the undead the humans destroyed were mere flesh and bone whose souls were fragile and kept alive by a small amount of necromantic power, weras the lich king is an immortal age old being given demonic powers, combined with godlike mind power its doubtful he has anywhere near the fragile nature of mere zombies and skeletons 🤣

IMO he could probably simply control Ganon and all those with a mind and make them either destroy themselves or just become slaves in his bidding, Ganon can be made into a little blood farm for kain to feast on daily 😆

Originally posted by Burning thought
what do you mean by sayng he cannot control anyone, thats a ridiculous thing to say, he controls Arthas in the frozen throne,thousands if not millions of undead minds and mages, i should think most opponents here would be completly under the lich kings command as slaves.

also i didnt really mean to sound like his mind powers would increase from getting a physcial body, i just meant to say his overall power would increase. for instance, just by thinking it he created a corrupt plague inside the frozen throne, and this was when he had first begun learning his new powers, this plague bascially destroyed most of the human kingdoms and created an army for him. If he can do that then, then now combined with physcial existance before his enemies and the increase in power from years of training and filling his mind with the dead he is perhaps capable of Godlike power.

also keep in mind the undead the humans destroyed were mere flesh and bone whose souls were fragile and kept alive by a small amount of necromantic power, weras the lich king is an immortal age old being given demonic powers, combined with godlike mind power its doubtful he has anywhere near the fragile nature of mere zombies and skeletons 🤣

IMO he could probably simply control Ganon and all those with a mind and make them either destroy themselves or just become slaves in his bidding, Ganon can be made into a little blood farm for kain to feast on daily 😆

But he worked on Arthas for a long time to make him do anything to save his people AND get revenge. He didn't corrupt him until he took the blade, which cursed his mind. And beside Arthas, he hasen't shown to be able to corrupt any of the big guys really. And more and more people freed themselfs from the Lich Kings grasp....

And this is not really something that will help him. I highly doubt that the fights start, and BOM, Ganon is taken over. Comon, he has to manipulate him and even through that I doubt he can control him. I bet that over time, The Lich King is one of the best leaders/manipulators there is in any category, but in a fight, I doubt those skills would help him much.

And when was the last time The Lich King moved? Must be pretty fragile himself after have been frozen in that throne for years and years.... And do you guys forget that Ganondorf at will can trap anyone into those crytals, which does not disappear until Ganon is defeated....

are you kidden, arthus may have beleived he had control of himself before he took frostmourne, but he was playing right into the undead kings hands. arthus was already under the lich kings control, even if he didnt know it. frostmourne only increased his power significantly and made him a death knight.
the lich king became weaker because of his plan to join with arthus and become more powerful than his demons masters..he pushed frostmourne from the frozen throne, and that left a crack that made him weak..therefore, frostmourne would be weak, and therefore , arthus would be weak..the weakness was only temporary, as the lich king was freed from the frozen throne, rejoined with frostmourne that made him full strength, and on top of that he also got the body of his most powerful servant, arthus, which as he planned would have made him even more powerful..
oh and btw the lich king couldnt have moved anywhere because he was ner zul's soul trapped in a suit of armour, which was trapped in a huge block of ice...that why he needed arthus in the first place..

i say they lose to teams 2 3 4