What is the Sacred realm anyway, if hes sealed away, he still wont die, it doesnt sound such a bad place, "sacred realm" ime not too sure he would mind, also the Lich King is above a God, so the Gods of Hyrule will not be able to protect Link enough from such a fate, also there isnt alot of portection against mind powers, i mean you cant block something you cannot see or touch or feel,you need special power or a natural immunity to mind control, also seals dont last forever, sooner or later the Lich King with his omintiace and great mind power will figuire a way if the sealing works on him at all that is, although there is no proof, he is a Godlike being with unsurmountable mind power so, also hes two beings fused into one body, so if you send Arthas to the Sacred Realm its possible that the Lich Kings Dark soul will stay put, and may possess one of them, i mean he needs a body to possess doesnt he 🙂
When Ganondorf is trapped, we se him alone in an all white room, not being able to move his arms or legs. Also, everytime Ganondorf has gotten out of there he has been freed by someone who knew how to get him out of there. (Twinrowa for example, two very old witches who knew Ganon, and knows even more then he does about the triforce and the gods). He would not be able to get out of there without help, and he would grow weaker in there (just like Ganon did).
And what says one god = every other god? There is a difference, the gods we see in Warcraft is on the ground, walking around and stuff....Could The Lich King kill someone or a whole land when someone begged him too?
I remember that Zelda, Link and Ganondorf all has a triforce part each, when they combine them they can make a wish, for example, kill these guys. Then they die....
wishes are all very well, but i dont remeber anyone saying they have all the tri forces, anyway who's to say it will work, the lich king has no proof to his power becasue he has only just been created in the story line as such a powerful being at the END of the game, the only thing we can really do is w8 until they add him to WoW OR presume like i do, add all his feats together and times them by ten or a hundred depending on his power increase and that will show the Lich Kings new power now he is complete, also just becasue Ganondorf needs help doesnt mean the Lich king will, also he has alot of allies to set him free, the whole of the scourge army for instance
also in answer to "Could The Lich King kill someone or a whole land when someone begged him too?" i belive he could, if the eye of sargerus could blow up the roof of the world and this Lich King is supposed to be stronger than it then i belive he could, also take into account that outside of this battle he has prossibly one of the largest Armies known in a mythical world, countless hordes of undead, every thing they kill adds to their numbers, i think any mythical/fantasy land from almost any Mythical/fantasy game would be sh@ting themselves at the sight of the Lich king army
Also just becasue the Warcraft Gods are on the actualy World doesnt make them any weaker, C,Thun can fire a beam capable of burning straight through london and melting it down, Ragnaros can burn the place down with his fire and smash basically anything to rubble with his hammer.
Play WW....
This is the exact same thing, you say his mind control will absolutley work on Link, but when it comes to something like this, there doesen't even seem to be the sligthest possiblility that it will work....
And yes I agree we have to wait, which is why I am not debating in the Lich King's favour....And this is not Lich King + his army, this is the Lich King. I remember someone saying that killing is not the only option, so trapping him would be another. For what we know, these battles could be held in another universe where they could not find him, and what could the scourge possibly do, they don't even know where he is anymore...
Proof? If the Lich King could then he probably would, at least take over parts. He has not shown such feats and we should not start assuming because "someone else did it"...
Still not as powerful as the Zleda god's who created the land from "nothing" and could drown the whole land by being begged to do so. One other thing that was begged was that Link and Zelda would have a future, so by everyone saying "Kain can't die because pf the prophesy" I guess this is the same thing. They can't die until they have lived through their lives.... Link and Zelda was going to drown, but since "they had a future" bubbles where being created out of thin air (bad expression since it's underwater haha).....But I still won't debate that way.....
Got to sleep now, good bye.
Kain cannot die, not only because of the prophesy but because the only weapon that could of killed him is now gone an thats Raziel, who is in the reaver, so Kain cant die, the only way Link can win is if he has the sages seal away Lich King and Kain
where did you say the sages were again, how can they trap anyone in this battle if their not there, makes no sense, and if they are there then they can be killed or Mind controlled, also what does WW stand for?
what do you mean by this again, ive sent you links and proven time and time again that he can control minds.
"This is the exact same thing, you say his mind control will absolutely work on Link, but when it comes to something like this, there doesn't even seem to be the slightest possibility that it will work"
he controls Undead, all kinds of monsters and legions of beasts. he wipes the minds of all those who are on his Island that he actually wants to be under his command or who are a threat, he doesn't control the dwarves because they are puny weaklings that he doesn't need, he doesn't need to concern himself with something he knows his Scourge army will take down in the future, which DOES happen, Also he corrupts people who are outside his island, I admit then his powers were not infinite since he cannot control people outside the island, but all things on the island are under his command
He corrupts Arthas, Kelthuzard, Countless others. Although in your opinion you think this is just manipulation, you would be wrong however since he undoubtfully being loosened slowly by the lich King, as soon as the Lich King hit Azeroth from the Sky he chose his Champion, and that was Arthas, and then he slowly corrupts him, of course if Arthas was completely himself he wouldn't destroy an entire city would he, especially since his a paladin
There your proof of mind control anyway, also he is stated as one of the most powerful entities in Azeroths history, that includes all the Gods, most of which are capable of wiping out countires, lands and people. Just because he hasnt been shown to do it yet doesn't mean he cannot
for team 2, which Version of Seph is it? FF7, KH II or advent? Dante's devil trigger dosent heal him nearly fast enough to keep up with Sephiroth if he went after him. Kain cant die? The masamune has the potential to maul anything and everything or at most meteor should do the trick. and artha's has mind control? does he have any melee combat skill? if so again metoer.
I dont see them getting past team 2
Originally posted by Marcellus
for team 2, which Version of Seph is it? FF7, KH II or advent? Dante's devil trigger dosent heal him nearly fast enough to keep up with Sephiroth if he went after him. Kain cant die? The masamune has the potential to maul anything and everything or at most meteor should do the trick. and artha's has mind control? does he have any melee combat skill? if so again metoer.I dont see them getting past team 2
first off, all the Humans would be Mind controlled by Arthas presuming heh as it, also Kain cannot be killed, even blasted into dust, he would still come back, also he can Teleport, telekentic abilities allow him to move people around, so he could crush them, throw them or make Sephiroth kill himself with his sword, unless Arthas doesnt mind control him first and make him cast spells on his allies
i still say this team wins all the matches, trouble is the Lich King is an anomely and can only be presumed to defeat most things considering when he was wekaer he managed to casue destruction with his unsurmountable mind power
Burning T , i dont doubt your word, but in any universe that I know , there isnt anything higher than a god , only other gods, you said that arthas was beyong a simple god??forgive me , but that is just impossible , as I said before, If arthas is a god, the three gods of hryule would probaly protect them from any mind control.Remember that ganondorf could control every kind of monster in the entire hyrule , just like the lich king. Remember that the triforce, when together has the power of the three gods that created zeldas universe .In wind waker , the king wished for hope to link and zelda , the result.An underwater temple , that had a barrier holding the weight of the entire sea ( bigger than in our world , since in wind waker 90% is water) for hundreds of years was broken down with just one wish , and for what I noticed , link and zelda became both a lot stronger after that since ganon was able to defeat link with only his punchs before of the kings wish , but after the kings wish he was able to defeat ganon with zeldas help.
Originally posted by Burning thought
first off, all the Humans would be Mind controlled by Arthas presuming heh as it, also Kain cannot be killed, even blasted into dust, he would still come back, also he can Teleport, telekentic abilities allow him to move people around, so he could crush them, throw them or make Sephiroth kill himself with his sword, unless Arthas doesnt mind control him first and make him cast spells on his alliesi still say this team wins all the matches, trouble is the Lich King is an anomely and can only be presumed to defeat most things considering when he was wekaer he managed to casue destruction with his unsurmountable mind power
Yes teleportation sure is spiffy, have you seen Seph fight in KH II? He teleports far faster than Kain and perhap's even Dante will be able to keep up with. save for quicksilver but that dosent last for ever and Dante dosent have near the...HP...if you will to hang with Seph.
Kain, sure he cant die but is still far from ever coming close to Seph's power. one word SUPERNOVA. Kain is done sure he can come back to life on a non-existint planet. where's the point in that
And Seph isnt Human in that sense, there is no way He can be mind controlled becuase Seph was a WILL in FF7. You cannot mind controll a will that almost became a God.
I doubt these three can even break the barrier around the northern crater.
thats all very well Hoshi but Ganon never used to be a an Already Twisted orc Shaman of masterful power and intelligence, then to be taken by a godlike Demon and have his body ripped apart, placed within a frozen casque but given the power of the Demons, increasing his Conciousness 10 000 fold, making his brain so powerful it could wipe the minds of hundreds, and eventually control hundreds of thousand of undead beings. Also take into acocunt this is the weaker Lich King, the new Lich King has now been freed,his power has surpassed the Godlike Demon who had control of him and now the Demon has no knowing of whats happening. Just think that if this guy while stuck in a diomand hard frozen ice can destroy with his armies basically the entire world of Azeroth and enslave them under his command leaving mostly ruins and death in his armies wake controlling all these minds with his will alone, think of what damage he can do now that he is 10x more powerful and free to move at his own will unconquered. 😈
Also how can even a god protect anyone from Mind control, even Gods are weaker than the Lich King, Ragnaros the fire God, C,thun an ancient God who can deal 10,million damage, thats more than any final fantasy chracters in games, he could one hit bascially anything in the FF universe, surely he has the power to blast these gods go yours to pieces. It is said that the Lich King is far more powerful than any of these Gods, i doubt the Gods of hryule will be able to protect them fully, besides just becasue their gods doesnt mean they can protect him against everything, i mean from what i can remeber there is no Mind Control used against Link in the games so its unsure that he can be protected from such a thing, Mind control is unlike spells or physcial power ime sure you understand 🙂
also Marcellus i think Arthas could control Sephiroth becasue basically is a God, not "almost becoming one", he is a god, also is cloud in that team, becasue cloud deifnatley can be controlled , i heard from very reliable sources that clouds biggest weakness is his mind and cloud can beat Sephiroths ass, also Super nova will Kill everyone in this match except perhaps Kain,Ganon and the Lich King, which means an infinate fight
Originally posted by Burning thought
also Marcellus i think Arthas could control Sephiroth becasue basically is a God, not "almost becoming one", he is a god, also is cloud in that team, becasue cloud deifnatley can be controlled , i heard from very reliable sources that clouds biggest weakness is his mind and cloud can beat Sephiroths ass, also Super nova will Kill everyone in this match except perhaps Kain,Ganon and the Lich King, which means an infinate fight
How can they fight on an empty plain? none of them save Sephiroth can be considered an astral being So wouldnt the vacuum of space crush them over and over for eternity?
and the God theory is somewhat a moot point. even if Arthas can mind controll a God, he has only demonstrated this on WoW God's correct?
Sephiroth as a God could potentailly destroy a universe, weara's say..."posiden" could controll water. thats quite a grey area for defining the strength of God's.
And Cloud's reason for defeating Seph is arguable. Cloud faced Seph one on one only once* and that was a battle of will's ((the staged fight at the end of FF7)) where Cloud did prove too have more heart. so to speak.
whereas in KH Sora had to face Sephiroth, someone Sephiroth had no intrest in and attacks relentlessly. Cloud was defeatable where Sephiroth was nearlly unbeatable for most casual gamer's. a point even exaggerated in KH II. IMO Seph is far beyond Cloud in most case's except for heart.
for example Dante and Vergil, after buying the special edition of DM3 Vergil can seem much more destructive than Dante when he can attack with his weapons and summoned swords simultainiusly. even Sparda Dante seem's weak compared to Nelo Angelo Vergil, yet the storyline show's Dante to previal in the end.
*I dont want to use "Advent Children" Sephiroth as a referance for spoiler reason's. I think thats understandable and the showdown of fate's from KH and KH II are rather short and have little plot relvancy
you are refeering only about warcraft gods , as you said yourself, we cant say exactly what are the powers of beings like the lich king or a god . Even if the lich king is stronger than the god of fire , that doesnt mean he is stronger than hyrules gods .We cant say the limits of god protection either .And as you said yourself again , gods arent necessarly stronger than other beings , that is why Marcellus think Arthas cant control seph , and I think he is right .
You guys are forgetting that the Deep Ground Soldiers are involved, that means Rosso, Shelke, Azul, Nero, and Vice.
Vice can fuse himself with Omega. Omega drains the life out of every single being in the world. So he'd e draining the life out of Arthas, Kain and Dante. Chaos Vincent would OWN Dante. Sephiroth and Cloud would then proceed to fight Arthas who gets weaker by the moment. And then the others fight Kain and wait for Vincent, Cloud, and sephiroth to come finish the job
well the problem is i cannot say much about the new lich King simply becasue he is seen only at the end of the story line and will not be heard of again until they add him to the WoW MMORPG, which means we cannot really see his true power till then, but in the game he is considered above all the gods, so either way even if Hyrules gods are just as strong or stronger, it doesnt mean they can protect link from the Lich King, it just means that they PORBABLY can, we just dont know
Kain cannot lose this match, he cannot die, so no matter if you supernova him, drain the life from him, blast him wih all the power of the universe, he will still be alive, also thats another strong point for the Lich King, if ime correct the Deep ground soldiers are Human, all it takes is a bit of Will from the Lich King and he can control them and make them use all their powerful own weapons against Sephiroth, and the rest of their allies
Also Seph is only a mere genetically improved human, sure id agree with you Hoshi if he was Demon, Angel, monster, or a force of good other than a God, but still from seeing sephiroth fight, all he has is Speed, he doesnt have that many powers, also if ime correct Sephiroths Super nova only destorys the Sola System not the universe and only does this when he controls the Sun from that sola system and i think he destroys it or moves it out of Orbit or somethin, a little rusty
Trouble is this battlefield isnt described so we dont know if theres a Sun here at all or what sort of Terrain were fighting on.
And It just occured to me. That Ansem could simply throw Kain arthas and dante into another dimension. With a single thought. Or Diz could blast Kain with the huge ray gun, which wont kill Kain, it'll just make him into dust particles and keep them frozen in time like a vacume. He wont die but he wont be able to move from his dust like state either.
Originally posted by Burning thought
well the problem is i cannot say much about the new lich King simply becasue he is seen only at the end of the story line and will not be heard of again until they add him to the WoW MMORPG, which means we cannot really see his true power till then, but in the game he is considered above all the gods, so either way even if Hyrules gods are just as strong or stronger, it doesnt mean they can protect link from the Lich King, it just means that they PORBABLY can, we just dont knowKain cannot lose this match, he cannot die, so no matter if you supernova him, drain the life from him, blast him wih all the power of the universe, he will still be alive, also thats another strong point for the Lich King, if ime correct the Deep ground soldiers are Human, all it takes is a bit of Will from the Lich King and he can control them and make them use all their powerful own weapons against Sephiroth, and the rest of their allies
Also Seph is only a mere genetically improved human, sure id agree with you Hoshi if he was Demon, Angel, monster, or a force of good other than a God, but still from seeing sephiroth fight, all he has is Speed, he doesnt have that many powers, also if ime correct Sephiroths Super nova only destorys the Sola System not the universe and only does this when he controls the Sun from that sola system and i think he destroys it or moves it out of Orbit or somethin, a little rusty
Trouble is this battlefield isnt described so we dont know if theres a Sun here at all or what sort of Terrain were fighting on.
This is again why I don't stand on the Lich King's side, because all is assumptions. And when WoW is playing out, it has been 4 years since that time.....
And there is again nothing that proves that his mind control is instant. Has he ever showed it to be instant? No....
And if the dwarves, with their brains, technology (actually got guns and airplanes) and muscles are useless, what are the frost spiders on that island huh?
The six sages could trap him.....(Kain)
WW stands for Wind Waker, and there, Zelda, Ganondorf and Link has all the triforce shards, actually, they all got it in all games..... If they combine it then the others are toast. And the six sages are in the sacred realm, and when called they will trap them inside it (into the place called the dark world I think....) and they will not get out.
"And there is again nothing that proves that his mind control is instant. Has he ever showed it to be instant? No....
And if the dwarves, with their brains, technology (actually got guns and airplanes) and muscles are useless, what are the frost spiders on that island huh?"
Dwarves are usless, why would undead want Guns and technology, THEY BEAT THE GUNS AND TECHNOLOGY 🤣 , so much good all that brains and technology did them, they were wiped from the island, and the spiders are very useful becasue they use a magical poison attack, burrow and bring along other unique bonuses, the Lich King army is basically undefeatable so i doubt he needs silly dwarves, also stated earlier in this forum or another is that Ganon and all those that the sages have tried to imprison within the sacred realm have needed to be weakened to be imprisoned, theres nothing where they can easily just imprison anyone, their opponent needs to be weakened apprently and Kain will never be weakened in this match, trust me, he can Teleport, has massive endurance and has a soul drinking blade, he will simply outmenuver his enemies
also his mind control is proven to be instant
"effortlessly he enslaved the minds of the trolls, wendigo and beasts"
this shows he enslaved them with his mind, and they stay under his control, i doubt hed take a long time doing it, if it did, it wouldnt say "effortlessly"
also can i have a link describing Ansems ability please Tallis, not that i dont belive you but ime interested in it 🙂 also who does he do it to, unless he does it to a "god" then it will prove he is powerful enoguh to do it to these three, ofcourse if he doesnt do it to a god then there's no proof it will definatley Work against Kain and Arthas who are bascially Gods, especially Arthas
anyway, once again take into account he has power greater than the eye of sargerus which can shatetr the roof of the world, and i even remeber you using that Kamikz to state the lich Kings power in the Magneto vs the Lich King thread, so this could probably kill most of the combatants in the matches
Originally posted by Burning thought
"And there is again nothing that proves that his mind control is instant. Has he ever showed it to be instant? No....
And if the dwarves, with their brains, technology (actually got guns and airplanes) and muscles are useless, what are the frost spiders on that island huh?"Dwarves are usless, why would undead want Guns and technology, THEY BEAT THE GUNS AND TECHNOLOGY 🤣 , so much good all that brains and technology did them, they were wiped from the island, and the spiders are very useful becasue they use a magical poison attack, burrow and bring along other unique bonuses, the Lich King army is basically undefeatable so i doubt he needs silly dwarves, also stated earlier in this forum or another is that Ganon and all those that the sages have tried to imprison within the sacred realm have needed to be weakened to be imprisoned, theres nothing where they can easily just imprison anyone, their opponent needs to be weakened apprently and Kain will never be weakened in this match, trust me, he can Teleport, has massive endurance and has a soul drinking blade, he will simply outmenuver his enemies
also his mind control is proven to be instant
"effortlessly he enslaved the minds of the trolls, wendigo and beasts"
this shows he enslaved them with his mind, and they stay under his control, i doubt hed take a long time doing it, if it did, it wouldnt say "effortlessly"
also can i have a link describing Ansems ability please Tallis, not that i dont belive you but ime interested in it 🙂 also who does he do it to, unless he does it to a "god" then it will prove he is powerful enoguh to do it to these three, ofcourse if he doesnt do it to a god then there's no proof it will definatley Work against Kain and Arthas who are bascially Gods, especially Arthas
anyway, once again take into account he has power greater than the eye of sargerus which can shatetr the roof of the world, and i even remeber you using that Kamikz to state the lich Kings power in the Magneto vs the Lich King thread, so this could probably kill most of the combatants in the matches
What? A spider and a big troll is better than a thinking individual that can shoot with GUNS and fly AIRPLANES? No way. Last time I checked, we changed from swords and shields to guns, and swords and shields are much more effective than claws and spikes... And how can it be to many? If he can effortlessly control them, why doesen't he? They are much better than most of the creatures, and 1 races more is only better, it woulden't trouble him to do it....So this is not proof that it is instant. And the trolls, wendingos are not thinking individuals, they could not resist it. And you also notice that the quote ONLY speeks for the wendingos and such, not for "everyone".....
Where is the proof about weakening? Zelda could call them, but everytime they fought, she was defensless (trapped inside that crystal, behind a fire, beliving Ganondorf was dead etc.). And Ganon had spent his whole life thinking about how he would take the world, and he knew alot about them, he even personally ensalved them inside temples, of course he would know how to defend himself against them too, if not, then the first one explains it..... And now they know about the fight and doesen't need to be called...
Wow, Link has defeated godlike creatures too, so I guess he can't be mind controlled....Seriousley, saying someone is a god is not enough too prove that he can be immune to something or defeat someone...
Yes I did, and that was not today, or last week, or the week before that. It was a pretty long time ago, and I do not think that way anymore, because I realized myself that there was no proof he could do it...