Joker vs Green Goblin

the way I see it is as follows:

1) No Gadgets for either side, ie, goblin doesnt have his glider, joker doesnt have other items he is commonly seen with

-Joker has human level durability, reflexes, strength, ect whereas goblin has enhanced
-Joker may have an edge is fighting ability, considering he fights batman, but Osborne has enough of a reflex and agility bonus to just be too fast for him.
-Give them basic weapons, like bombs, grenades, guns bats lazers ect. and I still give an advantage to goblin. Joker cant move nearly as fast as Spider-man and he has trouble dodging a barrage of pumpkin bombs.

2) Give them all of their weapons/gadgets

-I'm not sure what this means for Joker? But the Glider for Osborne is a HUGE advantage in this fight. To compete with that and his arsenal, I dont know what the joker is going to be able to do, seeing as he might as well be standing still on the ground.

3) Give them prep

-Both are obviously criminal geniuses, brooding and paitent. Both stalk and get knowledge of their oponents. In this regard, I think they both would probably have some very effective prep time.
-Osborne is a millionaire with knowledge in science and engeneering that rivals people like tony stark. His resourses for plotting a proper defeat of the Joker would be enormous. What does the joker have to contend with this?

I dont think the example of Joker beating the JLA is PIS, in fact, I think it just shows in general how one sided prep can make a fight. Obviously, if he is given enough time to stalk and prep for a fight against the goblin, Joker will dominate. But its not fair in any circumstance to only give the one side prep time, because it allows them to generally exploit the single weakness of the stronger opponent regardless of any other considerations. To be honest, given what is known about Osborne and his capabilities, I wouldn't be suprised if he could PIS a win off against the JLA in the same way that Joker did.

Joker with prep, 8/10
Both with prep, goblin 7/10
gadgets, goblin 9/10
no gadgets, goblin 10/10

Originally posted by Black Adam
joker created Kryptonite from scratch?

Who did he do that?

I'm waiting on the answer to this one myself.

Anyway, this is yet another case where a guys prep is used as an excuse to keep him in a fight he shouldn't be in. Say if this were Joker vs Scorpion. You guys would be justified in using Joker's prep as a viable reason for victory. But like someone pointed out earlier in the thread, his opponent is also great with prep. And a technological genius to boot. GG wins 10/10 w/o prep, 7/10 with prep.

joker wouldnt lose with prep thats the worst thing you can do is give him prep and he doesnt even need much of it to womp the goblin he even had prep against slade he had gotten two guys who took slade down long enough for him to escape and he's outsmarted bats more then once.

Originally posted by inamilist
the way I see it is as follows:

1) No Gadgets for either side, ie, goblin doesnt have his glider, joker doesnt have other items he is commonly seen with

-Joker has human level durability, reflexes, strength, ect whereas goblin has enhanced
-Joker may have an edge is fighting ability, considering he fights batman, but Osborne has enough of a reflex and agility bonus to just be too fast for him.
-Give them basic weapons, like bombs, grenades, guns bats lazers ect. and I still give an advantage to goblin. Joker cant move nearly as fast as Spider-man and he has trouble dodging a barrage of pumpkin bombs.

2) Give them all of their weapons/gadgets

-I'm not sure what this means for Joker? But the Glider for Osborne is a HUGE advantage in this fight. To compete with that and his arsenal, I dont know what the joker is going to be able to do, seeing as he might as well be standing still on the ground.

3) Give them prep

-Both are obviously criminal geniuses, brooding and paitent. Both stalk and get knowledge of their oponents. In this regard, I think they both would probably have some very effective prep time.
-Osborne is a millionaire with knowledge in science and engeneering that rivals people like tony stark. His resourses for plotting a proper defeat of the Joker would be enormous. What does the joker have to contend with this?

I dont think the example of Joker beating the JLA is PIS, in fact, I think it just shows in general how one sided prep can make a fight. Obviously, if he is given enough time to stalk and prep for a fight against the goblin, Joker will dominate. But its not fair in any circumstance to only give the one side prep time, because it allows them to generally exploit the single weakness of the stronger opponent regardless of any other considerations. To be honest, given what is known about Osborne and his capabilities, I wouldn't be suprised if he could PIS a win off against the JLA in the same way that Joker did.

Joker with prep, 8/10
Both with prep, goblin 7/10
gadgets, goblin 9/10
no gadgets, goblin 10/10

You're angel from above for breaking the match in your post. Thank you.

The only thing I will touch on is regarding Joker's wealth. Believe it or not he is very resourceful and rich. He only commits crimes because that's the only way he can challenge Batman's intellengence. His own insanity drives him to be eternally locked in combat with the cape crusader. Joker is chemist and also an evil masterminded criminal. I'll say as far as the resource he and Osborne are pretty equally. With the exception that The Joker keeps his resources on low profile.

how does anyone match the joker with the goblin on the mental plain i never saw the goblin take over half the world with 30 minutes prep or womp the jla using a item not even lex luthor didnt know how to use, i never saw the goblin have the resources to put slade down even for a moment, or just cook up kryptonite as if it was coolaid.

Originally posted by Mider
how does anyone match the joker with the goblin on the mental plain i never saw the goblin take over half the world with 30 minutes prep or womp the jla using a item not even lex luthor didnt know how to use, i never saw the goblin have the resources to put slade down even for a moment, or just cook up kryptonite as if it was coolaid.

Thats because The Green Goblin doesn't exist in the DC universe Mider 😉

so what if we get into who dont exist here and there then we wont have a single darn debate, green goblin in the DCU id love to see that, he'd get his butt handed to him so badly its not even funny

green goblin tries his flying around crap then gets shot out of the sky by lex luthor who is tired of his laugh

The Goblin and the Joker, regardless of their "similarities" are very different kinds of characters. The Joker is an archetypical psycho nightmare who has gotten as far as he has almost entirely on PIS. His feats dont really make sense, its just that the writers suspend all logic and reason when he's involved in a plot. The Goblin gets where he does based on his abilities, i.e. strength, intelligence, durability, etc. The Joker has gotten away with giving the JLA trouble...how does the Joker give Martian Manhunter a hastle? Someone that people compare to the Silver Surfer in Marvel! Would the Joker or Goblin give SS trouble in a Marvel series? HELL NO! Purely PIS. When using reason, in a fight with no prep, the Joker would get killed by a handful of thugs that would just shoot him in the head. However, the Goblin can logically give people like Spiderman, Venom, Wolverine, Blade, Beast, etc. a challenge cuz he is just as powerful, at least. Joker took over DC Earth...so what, it doesnt mean I think he would beat Jean Grey in 50% of their fights cuz reason would lead me to believe that Jean would smash him to a pulp or fry his brain. Same thing with GG, he just severely out guns him. Yes Joker has some big feats, but the writers do it because its ironic...u dont expect him to beat any serious heroes, but ur surprised when he does...thats why its interesting!!!...joker's crazy, and so r his feats, thats what makes him interesting...

Logically tho, GG would just blow his ass up.

So Lex Luthor is part of the Joker's standard arsenal 🙄 .

You guys equate craziness as some sort of tactical advantage, now thats just plain stupid. Even if we throw logic out of the window and assume that being crazy does provide some advantages, the Joker's craziness advantage is not enough to overcome the Goblin's advantages in physical stats, standard gear and resources.

Emperor Joker, Last Laugh; textbook examples of pure unadulterated PIS. It shows you how much a comicbook company is willing to push to the limit, if not completely disregard, the suspension of disbelief of its readers, just in order to milk it most popular villain (When Batman become Batgod, i bet DC felt that his rogues are getting left behind). Give any random thug as much pampering and prep as the Joker and he would wipe the floor with the JLA.

i didnt say lex luthor was part of the jokers arsenal i was saying that if goblin was in the DC trying to start crap he would be taken down quiet fast by some of the big dogs. who even said he was part of jokers aresenal DERRR and PIS i dont think you can say its PIS its an combo of super intelligence, and just plain insanity

im so sure you can prove that Joker's feats are PIS since he does them so many times, is it just that you dont want goblin to lose, so what if he has gadgets and junk if you give joker resources he can plan something that would totally get the goblin off gaurd

Originally posted by Mider
im so sure you can prove that Joker's feats are PIS since he does them so many times, is it just that you dont want goblin to lose, so what if he has gadgets and junk if you give joker resources he can plan something that would totally get the goblin off gaurd

Anything Joker could do with prep, Goblin could do better.
The reason why this wont happen is because GG is not that insane.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You're angel from above for breaking the match in your post. Thank you.

The only thing I will touch on is regarding Joker's wealth. Believe it or not he is very resourceful and rich. He only commits crimes because that's the only way he can challenge Batman's intellengence. His own insanity drives him to be eternally locked in combat with the cape crusader. Joker is chemist and also an evil masterminded criminal. I'll say as far as the resource he and Osborne are pretty equally. With the exception that The Joker keeps his resources on low profile.

I guess you learn something new everyday 🙂

Maybe with enough time then Joker could split or even take slight majority out of 10, though imho the mobility and stat differances give osborne enough of an advantage in most other situations to dominate

Cheers

If Joker was allowed ever bit of tech he's used then he has a greater chance of a win . Considering that he has used a giant moving robo-doll that was smacking supes around.

so goblin could take over half the world with 30 minutes prep?

^^^ with the right writer im sure 😛

sounds pretty dumb if you ask me since he aint nothing more then a street level punk and never shown to be anything else

Spider-Man said once that if he wouldn't have started Goblin stuff he would had already found out cure for cancer. Plus he stated that Osbourn is at least twice as intelligent as he is.

And street level punk he may be, but Class 10 strength, bulletproof skin, flight, bombs and gloves that blast electricity will pwn Joker anywhere without prep.

Originally posted by Mider
sounds pretty dumb if you ask me since he aint nothing more then a street level punk and never shown to be anything else

If you ask me Joker taking over the world or taking JLA is also dumb.