Can you give a logical reason why Omega Red has a chance since Wolverine has beat Omega Red and Hulks faster stronger tougher has a healing factor equal to or better then Wolverine and the skin strong enough to withstand a Nova Blast by Human Torch or a Nuclear Bomb. Or come back from a near skeletal form?
Red's pheromones don't affect the Hulk. He's too strong to be affected by anything like that. Red is powerful but not enough to kill or knock out the Hulk. Hulk's healing factor would counter the effects of the pheromones. Hulk has taken stronger things than Red's pheromones and not been hurt one bit. Hulk's got this one in the bag.
Originally posted by golem370
Can you give a logical reason why Omega Red has a chance since Wolverine has beat Omega Red and Hulks faster stronger tougher has a healing factor equal to or better then Wolverine and the skin strong enough to withstand a Nova Blast by Human Torch or a Nuclear Bomb. Or come back from a near skeletal form?
As far as I know, Wolverine has NEVER beat Omega Red. Unless ofcourse theres an instance i dont know about. When did Wolvie beat Red? Looking at most fights, Hulk doesnt show to be much faster than Red, if faster at all. Also, im sure we all know that strength doesnt always equal victory in comic fights.
In a previous post, ive mentioned that Hulk is among the best in Marvel when it comes to healing factors. What you may not know, it that Omega Red has a healing factor as well thats slightly below Wolverines. When Red uses the Death Factor, his healing factor surpases Wolvies and goes to Deadpool status or maybe slightly below that.
Hulk taking one attack doesnt automatically mean he can withstand a different attack with the same results. Hulk may be able to take a Nova blast from Torch, but he cant even take a stab from Wolvie. 2 different attacks. Hulk may be able to come back from near skeletal form, but Red drains to the skeletal form and beyond.
Hulk's regen factor is among the best in Marvel. Debated if its better than Dp's though. Either way, i take it you didnt read my post too well. I stated that AT FIRST, Hulk would feel the effects of the Phermones. That would make him woozy and make it easier for Red to deal out the Death Factor on Hulk, making him weak and susceptible to the 15-25 cl hits.
No , Red's pheromones take damn near AGES to effect normal humans (a day from what i hear) and that's too kill them. Hulk overrides the pheromones in near enough a minute and is still in tip-top condition , he'd have to have been around Red all day (and his healing factor becoming non-existent) for him to become weak enough for their puny blows to even graze him.
Im not mentioning the Phermones making Hulk weak to be susceptible to the 15-25 cl hits. Im mentioning the Phermones effectiveness early in the fight, which would allow Red to use the Death Factor and have and even easier effect.
And i've already said how their useless in previous post's
See above. That would indeed be enough to take Hulk down. Especially after having his energy/life drained from him at a rapid rate.
No , he will ether keep on going before tearing a tentacle off (I believe Red get's the best amount of drain from his tentacles ? ) or he get's pummeled before he can drain a decent amount of life force , his healing factor is lower then wolverines and a class ninety knocked out wolverine. Red is going to get whomped.
Hulk would have a hard time downing Sabes as it is. The majority of Hulk fights dont have him moving at high speeds. I dont think Kaine is going to be daydreaming while fighting Hulk. That may be an assumption on your part.
Yes , but their are examples of him moving at top speeds , and yes Kaine will be day-dreaming. His powers are Enhanced versions of Spider-Man's powers, notably a spider-sense which triggers full precognitive visions, and the ability to use his wall-sticking power to cause a characteristic scarring on the victim's face
He's be standing their , going through the pre-cog vision , and get splattered.
Red draining life from Hulk wouldnt be a try. Hell, Hulk touching Red can drain his life force. Making keeping Red at peak potential. Plus with Red doing that, his healing factor becomes better than Sabes and possibly Deadpools/Hulks as well. I highly doubt it would cause him to explode.
And when Hulk touches red , red's head explodes. See absorption is all well and good , but when the fist that your absorbing from has 100 + ton strength behind it your head is going to explode.
Originally posted by grey fox
No , Red's pheromones take damn near AGES to effect normal humans (a day from what i hear) and that's too kill them. Hulk overrides the pheromones in near enough a minute and is still in tip-top condition , he'd have to have been around Red all day (and his healing factor becoming non-existent) for him to become weak enough for their puny blows to even graze him.
Red Phermones take damn near ages to effect normal humans? You couldnt be more wrong. Humans as well as mutants get effected within seconds. If you actually look at the instances where Red does them, youd know this. The Phermones can kill a regular human if exposed to them for too long. Not days but SECONDS. Once again, Hulk has never been exposed to reds Phermones so he wouldnt be immune to them off the bat. It would take a few seconds for that. Those few seconds are capable of making Hulk feel woozy/dizzy until the healing factor kicks in making him immune to it. That coupled with the Death Factor is easily talking Hulk out of his game and likely reverting hm. Your telling me while Hulk is geting his life drained to nothingness, blows from a 25 and 10 cl wont effect him? Your mistaken.
Originally posted by grey fox
And i've already said how their useless in previous post's
Obviously thats not the case.
Originally posted by grey fox
No , he will ether keep on going before tearing a tentacle off (I believe Red get's the best amount of drain from his tentacles ? ) or he get's pummeled before he can drain a decent amount of life force , his healing factor is lower then wolverines and a class ninety knocked out wolverine. Red is going to get whomped.
Tearing a tentacle off? If Hulk hasnt ripped a limb off wolverine yet, hes not tearing any tentacles off (Red can drain from the tentacles or body, but uses tentacles more often.). If Red is draining Hulk life force while keeping him wrapped in the tentacles with Kaine and Sabes attacking at the same time, Hulkisnt pummeling Red at all. Once again, like ive said in previous posts. Reds healing factor is slghtly below Wolvies. When he uses the Death Factor, his healing factor jumps past Wolverines level of healing. You mention a cl 90 knocking out Wolvie, yet Havok knocked Hulk out reverting him back to Banner. Iceman froze Grey Hulk(who still gets stronger as he gets angrier) and Hulk was to cold to concentrate to get stronger to break free. If Red's draining Hulk, while hes being attacked by 2 other opponents, Hulk isnt breaking free.
Originally posted by grey fox
Yes , but their are examples of him moving at top speeds , and yes Kaine [b]will be day-dreaming. His powers are Enhanced versions of Spider-Man's powers, notably a spider-sense which triggers full precognitive visions, and the ability to use his wall-sticking power to cause a characteristic scarring on the victim's faceHe's be standing their , going through the pre-cog vision , and get splattered. [/B]
Hulks examples of him moving at high speeds dont hold much relevance in this fight considering that 98% of his fights dont have him fighting at high speeds. Can you show any instances of Kaine daydreaming and or going thrugh pre-cog vision while in battle?
Originally posted by grey fox
And when Hulk touches red , red's head explodes. See absorption is all well and good , but when the fist that your absorbing from has 100 + ton strength behind it your head is going to explode.
Red head is going to explode? Like Wolvies does? Like Thing's, Daredevil's, Strange's, Ironman's did? You do know that Red's skeleton is laced with Carbonadium right? SLIGHTLY less durable than Adamantium. Secondly, Hulk doesnt even start off at 100 cl. More like 80-90 cl. Either way, hes not making Red's head explode.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Red Phermones take damn near ages to effect normal humans? You couldnt be more wrong. Humans as well as mutants get effected within seconds. If you actually look at the instances where Red does them, youd know this. The Phermones can kill a regular human if exposed to them for too long. Not days but SECONDS. Once again, Hulk has never been exposed to reds Phermones so he wouldnt be immune to them off the bat. It would take a few seconds for that. Those few seconds are capable of making Hulk feel woozy/dizzy until the healing factor kicks in making him immune to it. That coupled with the Death Factor is easily talking Hulk out of his game and likely reverting hm. Your telling me while Hulk is geting his life drained to nothingness, blows from a 25 and 10 cl wont effect him? Your mistaken.Obviously thats not the case.
Tearing a tentacle off? If Hulk hasnt ripped a limb off wolverine yet, hes not tearing any tentacles off (Red can drain from the tentacles or body, but uses tentacles more often.). If Red is draining Hulk life force while keeping him wrapped in the tentacles with Kaine and Sabes attacking at the same time, Hulkisnt pummeling Red at all. Once again, like ive said in previous posts. Reds healing factor is slghtly below Wolvies. When he uses the Death Factor, his healing factor jumps past Wolverines level of healing. You mention a cl 90 knocking out Wolvie, yet Havok knocked Hulk out reverting him back to Banner. Iceman froze Grey Hulk(who still gets stronger as he gets angrier) and Hulk was to cold to concentrate to get stronger to break free. If Red's draining Hulk, while hes being attacked by 2 other opponents, Hulk isnt breaking free.
Hulks examples of him moving at high speeds dont hold much relevance in this fight considering that 98% of his fights dont have him fighting at high speeds. Can you show any instances of Kaine daydreaming and or going thrugh pre-cog vision while in battle?
Red head is going to explode? Like Wolvies does? Like Thing's, Daredevil's, Strange's, Ironman's did? You do know that Red's skeleton is laced with Carbonadium right? SLIGHTLY less durable than Adamantium. Secondly, Hulk doesnt even start off at 100 cl. More like 80-90 cl. Either way, hes not making Red's head explode.
Ok let's work with the basics,
Omega Red is a mutant with superhuman strength and the ability to emit lethal pheromones from his body (death spores). These spores result in the weakness or death of humans in his near vicinity. The severity of the effect is based on the endurance, health, and relative proximity of the victims. Normal humans would be killed in a matter of seconds of exposure, while beings with heightened endurance can withstand it for minutes or hours.
Now let me see ...what has hulk endured....
Re-entry through the earths atmosphere -
....i could show more but it would be redundant. The spores have no effect or will have no effect in the slightest.
Omega Red possesses retractable tendrils housed within his arms made of carbonadium, an artificial alloy that is the former Soviet Union's attempt at creating adamantium. Carbonadium is more malleable than adamantium and, while being vastly stronger than steel, is not as durable as adamantium. Omega Red is able to use the tentacles as highly effective offensive weapons, often brandishing them like whips during combat
Hulk has broken type B adamantium , these tentacles will be snapped off easily , also you state that 'Hulk touching Red can drain his life force'. Bullshit. In all of the bio's i have seen he has never been stated to be able to do that (You might be getting him confused with rouge) he can only drain life-energy through his carbonadium tentacles.
Oh and i made a mistake Omega red is a class ten . Team long hair just got even weaker.
Originally posted by grey fox
Ok let's work with the basics,Omega Red is a mutant with superhuman strength and the ability to emit lethal pheromones from his body (death spores). These spores result in the weakness or death of humans in his near vicinity. The severity of the effect is based on the endurance, health, and relative proximity of the victims. Normal humans would be killed in a matter of seconds of exposure, while beings with heightened endurance can withstand it for minutes or hours.
It seems if if your having trouble comprehending what im saying. The Phermones kill humans in seconds. Those who have heightened endurance or healing factors feel woozy/dizzy for the first minute or so. Afterwards, they build up an immunity to the Phermones. they withstand it to the point where it doesnt knock them out or kill them like it would normal humans. you do know that Red has the Phermones and the Death Factor which are 2 different things. Wolverine is immune to the Phermones after being exposed to them already. In his first encounter, that wasnt the case ujntil he got used to them. Same woul be Hulks case.
Originally posted by grey fox
Now let me see ...what has hulk endured....Re-entry through the earths atmosphere -
....i could show more but it would be redundant. The spores have no effect or will have no effect in the slightest.
Posting pics of what Hulk has endured in the past doesnt help him much in this fight. That have been things that Hulk hasnt done so well against and have gotten lucky.
Couldnt get angry enought to break out of Icemans iceblock(traped for hours)
Mentioned how Gladiators heat beams could kill him. Got lucky and found a reactor. Wasnt doing to well.
Going against Wolverine. Lucky for him, Wolvie hesitated.
Basically its been proven Hulk has problems fighting with people with healing factors and things that effect his thought or skin. The Death Factor will definately effect Hulk to the teams advantage. Plus Sabes and Reds healing along with Sabes claws, Kaines speed will give Hulk horrible odds to win.
Originally posted by grey fox
Omega Red possesses retractable tendrils housed within his arms made of carbonadium, an artificial alloy that is the former Soviet Union's attempt at creating adamantium. [B]Carbonadium is more malleable than adamantium and, while being vastly stronger than steel, is not as durable as adamantium. Omega Red is able to use the tentacles as highly effective offensive weapons, often brandishing them like whips during combatHulk has broken type B adamantium , these tentacles will be snapped off easily , also you state that 'Hulk touching Red can drain his life force'. Bullshit. In all of the bio's i have seen he has never been stated to be able to do that (You might be getting him confused with rouge) he can only drain life-energy through his carbonadium tentacles.[/B]
Bios can be very misleading. Whats type B Adamantium? The metal the fake Ultrons were made out of? I heard Wonder Man was busting that as well if im not mistaken. Caps shield has also been said to be a mimc of adamantium. Come to find out, its really vibranium. Not sure if its been retconed and changed. Point is the bio says Carbonadium is less durable than Adamantium, yet Wolvie can never seem to cut the coils. Hell, He cant even scratch Colossus's armor which is also considerably less durable than Adamantium. Cabonadium is durable than most think. How is Hulk getting drained by touching Red bullshit? Once again, bios can be misleading. If Red is damaged and needs even FASTER healing, any touch can revive him moreso. Look at his first appearance in X-Men #4 when the hand ninjas layed their hands on him. He doesnt have to drain life force through the tentacles. He just choses to do so that way to keep his distance in battle if he needs to do so.
Originally posted by grey fox
Oh and i made a mistake Omega red is a [b]class ten . Team long hair just got even weaker. [/B]
Red is 10-15 cl. Doesnt make a difference anyways cause Hulk still loses.
Originally posted by jrodslam
It seems if if your having trouble comprehending what im saying. The Phermones kill humans in seconds. Those who have heightened endurance or healing factors feel woozy/dizzy for the first minute or so. Afterwards, they build up an immunity to the Phermones. they withstand it to the point where it doesnt knock them out or kill them like it would normal humans. you do know that Red has the Phermones and the Death Factor which are 2 different things. Wolverine is immune to the Phermones after being exposed to them already. In his first encounter, that wasnt the case ujntil he got used to them. Same woul be Hulks case.Posting pics of what Hulk has endured in the past doesnt help him much in this fight. That have been things that Hulk hasnt done so well against and have gotten lucky.
Couldnt get angry enought to break out of Icemans iceblock(traped for hours)
Mentioned how Gladiators heat beams could kill him. Got lucky and found a reactor. Wasnt doing to well.
Going against Wolverine. Lucky for him, Wolvie hesitated.
Basically its been proven Hulk has problems fighting with people with healing factors and things that effect his thought or skin. The Death Factor will definately effect Hulk to the teams advantage. Plus Sabes and Reds healing along with Sabes claws, Kaines speed will give Hulk horrible odds to win.
Bios can be very misleading. Whats type B Adamantium? The metal the fake Ultrons were made out of? I heard Wonder Man was busting that as well if im not mistaken. Caps shield has also been said to be a mimc of adamantium. Come to find out, its really vibranium. Not sure if its been retconed and changed. Point is the bio says Carbonadium is less durable than Adamantium, yet Wolvie can never seem to cut the coils. Hell, He cant even scratch Colossus's armor which is also considerably less durable than Adamantium. Cabonadium is durable than most think. How is Hulk getting drained by touching Red bullshit? Once again, bios can be misleading. If Red is damaged and needs even FASTER healing, any touch can revive him moreso. Look at his first appearance in X-Men #4 when the hand ninjas layed their hands on him. He doesnt have to drain life force through the tentacles. He just choses to do so that way to keep his distance in battle if he needs to do so.
Red is 10-15 cl. Doesnt make a difference anyways cause Hulk still loses.
Ok so heres my problem with believing you .
A.You expect Hulk to suddenly drop incredibly in strnehg and defense...hell in all stats from a few pheromones which you admitted hulk can become immune too so that a few street levelers can take him out .
B . Wolverine is bullshit , he shouldn't be able to hang with the hulk... hell the only reason he isn't a puddle of goo is his healing factor and his adamantium skeleton. Any case of Wolverine winning against the Hulk in pure physical combat is a big steamy horse turd.
C. Those pictures are invalid. Ice-man slows down your molecules , of course your not going to be getting angry enough when your whole body is slown down to a molecular crawl.Gladiator is Jobb tastic , and when have we taken what characters thought and say into account ? Reed has stated that galactus is the ultimate power in the universes, yet as we have seen galactus can be trumped by beings such as EGO or Tyrant.
D. Type B adamantium is what they call the retconned adamantium which Hulk has broken several times to keep their 'indestructible' metal indestructible.
Originally posted by grey fox
Ok so heres my problem with believing you .A.You expect Hulk to suddenly drop incredibly in strnehg and defense...hell in all stats from a few pheromones [b]which you admitted hulk can become immune too
so that a few street levelers can take him out .B . Wolverine is bullshit , he shouldn't be able to hang with the hulk... hell the only reason he isn't a puddle of goo is his healing factor and his adamantium skeleton. Any case of Wolverine winning against the Hulk in pure physical combat is a big steamy horse turd.
C. Those pictures are invalid. Ice-man slows down your molecules , of course your not going to be getting angry enough when your whole body is slown down to a molecular crawl.Gladiator is Jobb tastic , and when have we taken what characters thought and say into account ? Reed has stated that galactus is the ultimate power in the universes, yet as we have seen galactus can be trumped by beings such as EGO or Tyrant.
D. Type B adamantium is what they call the retconned adamantium which Hulk has broken several times to keep their 'indestructible' metal indestructible. [/B]
Hey man, you dont have to believe me. Fact is fact.
A. Once again, i NEVER stated that Hulk will suddenly drop in strength and defence from the Phermones. Ive stated that for the first bunch of seconds, the Phermones may make Hulk woozy before his healing factor can counter it. His healing factor will be working just to counter act the Phermones, so hed heal from damage slower than usual. That will allow Red to grab him and easily apply the Death Factor. THEN Hulks strength and defence will drop rapidly.
B. Like many have stated including you, Wolvie hangs with Hulk because of the healing factor and Adamantium. BOTH Omega Red and Sabertooth have better healing factors than Wolverine. Kaines stats are enhanced. Sabes has Adamantium as well and Red is laced with Carbonadium. If Wolvie can survive, these 3 definately can. ESPECIALLY when Hulk is having his life drained wich would keep Red at peak capacity at all times.
C. The pictures arent invalid. At the time where Iceman froze Hulk in a block of ice, he wasnt able to slow down the molecules. That comes later on as be becomes more powerful. It was just a simple block of ice. Glads may be a jobber, but it doesnt take away from the fact that he could have killed Hulk with heat beams. Galactus is irrelevant here. Yes he may be the ultimate power in the universes. Yes we have seen that Galactus can be trumped by beings such as EGO or Tyrant. But have we ever seen Galactus at 100%?
D. Like i said before, wasnt the clone Ultrons made out of Adamantium B as well? And didnt Wonder Man smash the hell out of them? Retconned meaning it has no more relevance. Its not cannon anymore. Sorry.😬
A. Once again, i NEVER stated that Hulk will suddenly drop in strength and defence from the Phermones. Ive stated that for the first bunch of seconds, the Phermones may make Hulk woozy before his healing factor can counter it. His healing factor will be working just to counter act the Phermones, so hed heal from damage slower than usual. That will allow Red to grab him and easily apply the Death Factor. THEN Hulks strength and defence will drop rapidly that is fact.
But you implied it , after all how are they going to get any attacks in that will actually hurt ? Also I've said (and have proof) that draining his life-force won't help . In-fact it will cause Omega red to ether explode or fry. I'm betting on the former then the latter .
B. Like many have stated including you, Wolvie hangs with Hulk because of the healing factor and Adamantium. BOTH Omega Red and Sabertooth have better healing factors than Wolverine. Kaines stats are enhanced. Sabes has Adamantium as well and Red is laced with Carbonadium. If Wolvie can survive, these 3 definately can. ESPECIALLY when Hulk is having his life drained wich would keep Red at peak capacity at all times.
Omega red has already exploded or is in no shape to continue fighting. Kaine is the worst one off here , his pre-cog visions halt him and he has no uber healing/defense. Peter near enough always states that if the hulk lands one solid punch he's done for. Sabes can be knocked unconscious rather easily , Also he can pull the same tactic Ult-Hulk did
C. The pictures arent invalid. At the time where Iceman froze Hulk in a block of ice, he wasnt able to slow down the molecules. That comes later on as be becomes more powerful. It was just a simple block of ice. Glads may be a jobber, but it doesnt take away from the fact that he could have killed Hulk with heat beams. Galactus is irrelevant here. Yes he may be the ultimate power in the universes. Yes we have seen that Galactus can be trumped by beings such as EGO or Tyrant. But have we ever seen Galactus at 100%?
Ok perhaps i worded it wrong , whatever characters say is usually bull . Their nice and simple.
D. Like i said before, wasnt the clone Ultrons made out of Adamantium B as well? And didnt Wonder Man smash the hell out of them? Retconned meaning it has no more relevance. Its not cannon anymore. Sorry.😬
No your not listening , hulk has broken adamantium , but to make adamantium look more uber they ret-conned hulks previous adamantium destroying feats as 'Adamantium B a weaker variation of the Metal' and no Ultron didn't use adamantium B
Originally posted by grey fox
But you implied it , after all how are they going to get any attacks in that will actually hurt ? Also I've said (and have proof) that draining his life-force won't help . In-fact it will cause Omega red to ether explode or fry. I'm betting on the former then the latter.
I didnt imply the the Phermones would drop Hulks stats such as strength and defece. I implied that the Death Factor would do so. How are they going to make attacks that hurt? Punches have hurt Hulk in the past. With the Death Factor taking away from his durability, Sabes and Kaines can easily do enough damage to hurt Hulk. If Red keeps draining, Hulk dies. In the instance where Hulk was drained that you mentioned, the guy was hooked up to a machine that transfers the energy from one body to another. Hulk overloaded the machine. Thats hardly proof in saying Hulk would overload Red. That machine is different from a Rogue touch or Omega Red drain. Especially considering that without the C-Sizer, Red loses energy on a normal basis so he needs to constantly drain.
Originally posted by grey fox
Omega red has already exploded or is in no shape to continue fighting. Kaine is the worst one off here , his pre-cog visions halt him and he has no uber healing/defense. Peter near enough [b]always states that if the hulk lands one solid punch he's done for. Sabes can be knocked unconscious rather easily , Also he can pull the same tactic Ult-Hulk did[/B]
Hasnt been proven that Red would "explode", so its pretty nulled that he would. Ive asked you to show where Kaines pre-cog visions had him daydreaming during battle. Kaine's abilities are Spideys enhanced. They dont have to be uber. Spideys healing/defence is enhanced and his is better than Spideys, so....Spidey always states that if the hulk lands one solid punch he's done for. How many times has Hulk punched Spidey in a fight? Has Spidey ever been "done for" with Hulk hits? Not really. Actually, Spidey does pretty well against the Hulk. Sabes can be knocked out just as easily as Wolvie can. We all know how easily Hulk knocks out Wolvie. The Ultimate universe shouldnt even be brough up here.
Originally posted by grey fox
Ok perhaps i worded it wrong , whatever characters say is usually bull . Their nice and simple.
Sometimes.
Originally posted by grey fox
No your not listening , hulk has broken adamantium , but to make adamantium look more uber they ret-conned hulks previous adamantium destroying feats as 'Adamantium B a weaker variation of the Metal' and no Ultron didn't use adamantium B
What or whose Adamantium did Hulk break? Either way, it doesnt matter because its been retconned. The writers probably realized that they f'ed up. The metal that was used on an Ultron clone was called "Secondary Adamantium". Im not 100% sure if that was a clone Wonderman was smashing. Either way, it was destroyed. I really dont know whats the difference between that and "Adamantium B". I assumed they were the same thing. Secondary Adamantium was ALSO a weaker varitaion of Adamantium.
