i think sabretooth would do better in a battle with hulk than wolverine. (after all, on stats sabes is the one you would go for if you never knew either one of them)
the bigger the opponent the more effort you will put in to defeat them.. well if you were against hulk its defeat or die..(or run)😂
i still think that although sabes and red are a tough team (not sure about kaine) but hulk can beat them all..
the only way they could win is if red's draining ability worked on hulk.. (which we all know they havent met so none of us know the outcome)
but even if hulk didnt get effected so much red gets stronger when he drains people so it could make him a match for hulk.?..which again no one knows for certain only the writers..
over all if these two met then i would like to see the battle..
and i think everyone else would too.
If Red were to wrap his tentacles around Hulk AND drain his life along with Sabes and Kanie attacking, Hulk isnt breaking free. Not saying Colossus is as strong as Hulk, but Colossus couldnt even break free. If thats factored in with the Death Factor, Hulk isnt getting out. And les not forget that Hulk doesnt start out as 100 cl.
Hulk has been severly damaged due to attacks piercing attacks. Hell, Hulk has been knocked out from a collision. Not saying that any of the 3 are strong enough to knock him out like that, BUT if Hulk is weaker than usual as well as less durable than normal, he can be hurt by physical means from the trio.
There was a time where Spidey fought Hulk. He mentioned that Banner himself told him that Hulk doesnt get full strength till minutes after the change. I think that may have been Savage Hulk, but im not 100%. Prof Hulk also starts off at a higher base level than all Hulks. Where is it mentioned that they are 100cl from transformation?
Hulk bending Adamantium was retconned for a reason. Hulk prabably can throw someone into orbit. But not until he builds up the strength to do so. Him doing it in this fightint isnt likely.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Was the Galaxy Master's energy leeching like Omega Reds? Reds life tap is like Rogue's. Difference is, he doesnt get the victims memories or powers. Red has reduced beings to ash and bone. Its not like he just takes the energy and leaves you worn and tired.
I doubt that Red would have much effect-- if any-- on Hulk but the supernatural Pariah attempted to drain the Hulk's life force but once Hulk got angry, his power was restored instantly. IH #268.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Couldnt get angry enought to break out of Icemans iceblock(traped for hours)
Because the unnatural cold made it difficult for him to even think. It was also a full moon, so Hulk's persona was at its weakest.
Mentioned how Gladiators heat beams could kill him. Got lucky and found a reactor. Wasnt doing to well.
This occurred while Hulk and Banner were separated. Hulk's durability was at an all-time low. Missiles brought blood and a broken street sign impaled him.
Going against Wolverine. Lucky for him, Wolvie hesitated.
Death Wolverine. Hulk injured himself. It doesn't say that Death was anywhere near actually defeating Hulk. Hulk has easily kayoed normal Wolverine on a couple of occasions.
Hulk wins this fight.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
I doubt that Red would have much effect-- if any-- on Hulk but the supernatural Pariah attempted to drain the Hulk's life force but once Hulk got angry, his power was restored instantly. IH #268.
Its obvious that Hulk was able to get angry because his focus wasnt on other things like pain. Because he was able to overcome a couple of instances, doesnt mean he can overcome all, as time has shown a few times.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Because the unnatural cold made it difficult for him to even think. It was also a full moon, so Hulk's persona was at its weakest.
Thats the point i made above as well as before. There has been many times where Hulk has been effected by things that cause him to lose focus of the fight and worry about pain. That usually either knocks Hulk out and reverts him to Banner right away or knocks him out and he reverts with time. Also, it wasnt a full-moon nor a new-moon, but it was a first-quarter to full moon, so it was inbetween. Thus Hulk wasnt full strength, but he wasnt at his weakest point either.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
This occurred while Hulk and Banner were separated. Hulk's durability was at an all-time low. Missiles brought blood and a broken street sign impaled him.
There has not been one version of Hulk that hasnt had his hide penetrated. Him being separated from Banner may reduce his durability, but its not like Savage Hulk's body was ever impenetrable. Plus if his life force is being drained, it takes away from his strength and durability as well as ability to concentrate and grow stronger.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Death Wolverine. Hulk injured himself. It doesn't say that Death was anywhere near actually defeating Hulk. Hulk has easily kayoed normal Wolverine on a couple of occasions.
Death Wolverine, Wolverine whatever. Hulk didnt injure himself. Wolverine stabbed him in the neck and Hulk hit the floor. Wolvie then jumped on top of him and slashed a bit more. Hulk wasnt moving. Appears he was out. Wolverine could have stopped slashing, but he decided to stop, hence the "No." Hulk may have ko'd Wolvie before but not more times than not.
Hulk still loses.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Its obvious that Hulk was able to get angry because his focus wasnt on other things like pain. Because he was able to overcome a couple of instances, doesnt mean he can overcome all, as time has shown a few times.
Hulk doesn't have to focus. He has to get angry.
Originally posted by jrodslam Thats the point i made above as well as before. There has been many times where Hulk has been effected by things that cause him to lose focus of the fight and worry about pain. That usually either knocks Hulk out and reverts him to Banner right away or knocks him out and he reverts with time.
In proportion to his history, it's very rare.
Originally posted by jrodslam Also, it wasnt a full-moon nor a new-moon, but it was a first-quarter to full moon, so it was inbetween. Thus Hulk wasnt full strength, but he wasnt at his weakest point either.
You're right. It was a 3/4 moon, not a full moon.
Originally posted by jrodslam There has not been one version of Hulk that hasnt had his hide penetrated. Him being separated from Banner may reduce his durability, but its not like Savage Hulk's body was ever impenetrable. Plus if his life force is being drained, it takes away from his strength and durability as well as ability to concentrate and grow stronger.
I haven't said the Hulk is impenetrable. However, his durability was greatly reduced following separation from Banner. That was an ongoing theme of the story. Hulk's strength increased steadily due to otherdimensional energy but it reduced his durability.
Draining his energy only works if the drain is faster than the rate of increase in anger and imo I don't see Omega Red weakening Hulk fast enough. He doesn't need to concentrate to get stronger.
Originally posted by jrodslam Death Wolverine, Wolverine whatever. Hulk didnt injure himself. Wolverine stabbed him in the neck and Hulk hit the floor. Wolvie then jumped on top of him and slashed a bit more. Hulk wasnt moving. Appears he was out. Wolverine could have stopped slashing, but he decided to stop, hence the "No." Hulk may have ko'd Wolvie before but not more times than not.
Read the narration. It specifically says that the Hulk's momentum does what Death's strength could not. Death continues hacking away at the injury Hulk caused himself and when Death realized that he was every bit as berserk as he feared Sabretooth would be, he hesitated.
There was no indication that the Hulk was unconscious. It was very much the opposite. Narration says that the Hulk (for some reason) panicked when he injured himself.
Just because Hulk hasn't kayoed Wolverine in half the encounters doesn't mean much. Hulk also hasn't kayoed Captain America half the time.
Originally posted by jrodslam Hulk still loses.
Flukes happen. Hulk takes the majority. 😄
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Hulk doesn't have to focus. He has to get angry.
Another nice debate going on here.
On topic: Hulk doesnt have to "focus" in the literal sense, but if hes focused more on the pain hes getting, he doesnt get angry enough to overcome it.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
In proportion to his history, it's very rare.
Its not that rare, but if the damage is enough theres not doubt of it happening.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
You're right. It was a 3/4 moon, not a full moon.
😄
Originally posted by Jonathanos
I haven't said the Hulk is impenetrable. However, his durability was greatly reduced following separation from Banner. That was an ongoing theme of the story. Hulk's strength increased steadily due to otherdimensional energy but it reduced his durability.
I understand that Hulks durability was reduced. However, it still doesnt take away from the fact that hes still highly durable AND contains his healling factor thats above Wolverines.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Draining his energy only works if the drain is faster than the rate of increase in anger and imo I don't see Omega Red weakening Hulk fast enough. He doesn't need to concentrate to get stronger.
As soon as the Death Factor is implied, its immediately effective. Omega Red has used the Death Factor to ko Wolvie in seconds. If applied to Hulk for a bit longer with the intent to kill WHILE hes being attacked by Kaine and Sabertooth, Hulk goes down. Another example of Reds Death Factor was when he killed 20 hand ninjas in 20 seconds. Reduced them to ash and bone.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Read the narration. It specifically says that the Hulk's momentum does what Death's strength could not. Death continues hacking away at the injury Hulk caused himself and when Death realized that he was every bit as berserk as he feared Sabretooth would be, he hesitated.
It was Hulks momentum that gave Wolvie the extra "umph" in the attack. True that. Still doesnt take away from the fact that he wasnt doing enough damage to Death to keep him down. The narration also said "pain" and "panic" and "gets hammered relentlessly by one who shows no restraint...". Yea Wolvie hesitated because he knew thats Sabes was of fighting. Sabes is in this battle, so id expect the same amount of ruthlessness Wolvie was afraid to display.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
There was no indication that the Hulk was unconscious. It was very much the opposite. Narration says that the Hulk (for some reason) panicked when he injured himself.
Hulk panicked when Wolvie was slashing and stabbing at the throat and was ready to kill him. True Hulk didnt appear ko'd, but he sure as hell appeared beat.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Just because Hulk hasn't kayoed Wolverine in half the encounters doesn't mean much. Hulk also hasn't kayoed Captain America half the time.
How many times has Hulk landed full shots on Cap? Maybe thats the reason. I know thats the reason DD doesnt get ko'd by the likes of Spidey, Namor, Hulk etc.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Flukes happen. Hulk takes the majority. 😄
Id call it a fluke if Hulk won. 😛
Originally posted by jrodslam
On topic: Hulk doesnt have to "focus" in the literal sense, but if hes focused more on the pain hes getting, he doesnt get angry enough to overcome it.Its not that rare, but if the damage is enough theres not doubt of it happening.
I'm willing to pull out any issues you feel show this and take a look at it.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I understand that Hulks durability was reduced. However, it still doesnt take away from the fact that hes still highly durable AND contains his healling factor thats above Wolverines.
He wasn't durable by Hulk standards. Right after the separation from Banner, Mach 1's missiles broke Hulk's skin; Hulk has endured nukes without harm.
Originally posted by jrodslam
As soon as the Death Factor is implied, its immediately effective. Omega Red has used the Death Factor to ko Wolvie in seconds. If applied to Hulk for a bit longer with the intent to kill WHILE hes being attacked by Kaine and Sabertooth, Hulk goes down. Another example of Reds Death Factor was when he killed 20 hand ninjas in 20 seconds. Reduced them to ash and bone.
Ah, but when Hulk was nearly dead from a specially made poison, his mass reduced to something comparable to Spider-Man's, he was taking hits from Madman, a Class 100 foe, and still fighting back. Even combining their strength, these three don't compare to Madman.
Hulk's healing factor also increases with anger.
Originally posted by jrodslam
It was Hulks momentum that gave Wolvie the extra "umph" in the attack. True that. Still doesnt take away from the fact that he wasnt doing enough damage to Death to keep him down. The narration also said "pain" and "panic" and "gets hammered relentlessly by one who shows no restraint...". Yea Wolvie hesitated because he knew thats Sabes was of fighting. Sabes is in this battle, so id expect the same amount of ruthlessness Wolvie was afraid to display.
Death was losing consciousness when Hulk injured himself by running into the outstretched claws.
Sabretooth's claws are nowhere near as long as Wolverine's. Hulk fought a character named Piecemeal who was cloned from a number of villains, including Sabretooth, Abomination and others. Piecemeal used the Sabretooth claws on Hulk and Hulk's reaction was "If I were a puny human, I might be worried" before knocking him away.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Hulk panicked when Wolvie was slashing and stabbing at the throat and was ready to kill him. True Hulk didnt appear ko'd, but he sure as hell appeared beat.
Trying to kill Hulk and doing it are entirely different.
It really didn't make sense for Hulk to panic when he's taken far, far worse than that and just got up for more.
Originally posted by jrodslam
How many times has Hulk landed full shots on Cap? Maybe thats the reason. I know thats the reason DD doesnt get ko'd by the likes of Spidey, Namor, Hulk etc.
We could say the same about Wolverine, given that Hulk has kayoed him with one or two hits on a couple of occasions.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Id call it a fluke if Hulk won. 😛
I'd call it a fluke if Hulk was bound with adamantium chains and won. 😛
Dude... the Earth should still be destoryed...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6370082
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6370086
Originally posted by Jonathanos
I'm willing to pull out any issues you feel show this and take a look at it.
Gas has made Hulk sleepy, cold has efected him, high electricity voltage(which reverted him to Banner), Havoks blasts(which reverted him to Banner). Those are some examples.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
He wasn't durable by Hulk standards. Right after the separation from Banner, Mach 1's missiles broke Hulk's skin; Hulk has endured nukes without harm.
A nukes damage may only be fire/burning or radiation that effects the skin. Hulk may have endured nukes, but did his skin get effected and heal really fast? Regardless of Hulk standards, its much easier for heat beams the level of Gladiators or a strong starp object such as Wolverines claws, to penetrate Hulks body moreso than any missile or bomb.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Ah, but when Hulk was nearly dead from a specially made poison, his mass reduced to something comparable to Spider-Man's, he was taking hits from Madman, a Class 100 foe, and still fighting back. Even combining their strength, these three don't compare to Madman.Hulk's healing factor also increases with anger.
So Hulk was nearly dead from a poison and his mass was reduced to Spidey level and he was taking hits from a 100cl character? Thats nothing that hasnt been done time and time over by other characters. Spidey has been hit by Hulk as well as other 100cl characters. Same for DD, Wolvie, Batman etc. I know their strength doesnt compare to a 100cl character. Thats noy my arguement. My arguement is that when Hulk is feeling weak and drained from the Death Factor, his durability alone with his healing factor wont do him any good. Then hed definately feel the effects of the hits from the trio.
If Hulk is in to much pain to get angry, his healing factor isnt going to increase.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Death was losing consciousness when Hulk injured himself by running into the outstretched claws.
Yes, Death was starting to lose consciousness, but he was still swinging his claws with desperateness. Hulk was the idiot who ran into the claws. Wolvie was still swinging.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Sabretooth's claws are nowhere near as long as Wolverine's. Hulk fought a character named Piecemeal who was cloned from a number of villains, including Sabretooth, Abomination and others. Piecemeal used the Sabretooth claws on Hulk and Hulk's reaction was "If I were a puny human, I might be worried" before knocking him away.
When Hulk fought Piecemeal, his hands were a clone of Sabertooths, but were they adamantium claws? If not, i dont think they would phaze Hulk either.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Trying to kill Hulk and doing it are entirely different.It really didn't make sense for Hulk to panic when he's taken far, far worse than that and just got up for more.
Death would have done it had he not he stopped. Thats a pretty easy conclusion to draw. Why did Hulk panic? It didnt make sense.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
We could say the same about Wolverine, given that Hulk has kayoed him with one or two hits on a couple of occasions.
I wouldnt say the same thing about Wolverine. Cap and DD uses their fighting abilities to evade such hits from people like Hulk. Daredevil rolls and dodges blows to make hit less effective. Cap does that and has the use of hit shield. Wolverine doesnt do that. He takes the hits head on and heals from them depending on the power of the punch. Apparently Hulk has nailed him good a couple of times and ko'd him. Not more times than not however.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
I'd call it a fluke if Hulk was bound with adamantium chains and won. 😛
Yea. That would be another fluke of Hulk winning. 😄
Originally posted by jrodslam
Gas has made Hulk sleepy, cold has efected him, high electricity voltage(which reverted him to Banner), Havoks blasts(which reverted him to Banner). Those are some examples.
Gas is different from Omega's power. Cold very rarely effects Hulk. I don't recall electricity changing him, though he has been taken down by it a few times.
Havok's blast is a good example but I don't believe these three can come close to duplicating that level of pain. Havok targeted the Hulk's brain with his power.
Originally posted by jrodslam
A nukes damage may only be fire/burning or radiation that effects the skin. Hulk may have endured nukes, but did his skin get effected and heal really fast? Regardless of Hulk standards, its much easier for heat beams the level of Gladiators or a strong starp object such as Wolverines claws, to penetrate Hulks body moreso than any missile or bomb.
There's no indication of the nukes doing any damage to the Hulk. We need to see Gladiator heat vision a full power Hulk before we know how it will effect Hulk.
Originally posted by jrodslam
So Hulk was nearly dead from a poison and his mass was reduced to Spidey level and he was taking hits from a 100cl character? Thats nothing that hasnt been done time and time over by other characters. Spidey has been hit by Hulk as well as other 100cl characters. Same for DD, Wolvie, Batman etc. I know their strength doesnt compare to a 100cl character. Thats noy my arguement. My arguement is that when Hulk is feeling weak and drained from the Death Factor, his durability alone with his healing factor wont do him any good. Then hed definately feel the effects of the hits from the trio.If Hulk is in to much pain to get angry, his healing factor isnt going to increase.
Hulk's durability was effected by the poison as well. He even remarked on it as he tried and failed to inject the antidote into his arm. He was surprised that the needle still couldn't penetrate his skin.
These three guys combined can't hit as hard as Madman so Hulk's durability would have to be very, very low.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes, Death was starting to lose consciousness, but he was still swinging his claws with desperateness. Hulk was the idiot who ran into the claws. Wolvie was still swinging.
No one's ever accused Savage of being a tactical genius. 😆
Originally posted by jrodslam
When Hulk fought Piecemeal, his hands were a clone of Sabertooths, but were they adamantium claws? If not, i dont think they would phaze Hulk either.
I'd imagine they were as they penetrated Hulk's skin. But not deep enough to worry Hulk at all even with Piecemeal's considerable strength.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I wouldnt say the same thing about Wolverine. Cap and DD uses their fighting abilities to evade such hits from people like Hulk. Daredevil rolls and dodges blows to make hit less effective. Cap does that and has the use of hit shield. Wolverine doesnt do that. He takes the hits head on and heals from them depending on the power of the punch. Apparently Hulk has nailed him good a couple of times and ko'd him. Not more times than not however.
Could be that Hulk's not connecting well at all on Wolverine. Wolverine's a fast little.... guy.
I doubt that we're going to agree on this so this'll be my last reply. I must say that it's nice to find someone who can debate without insulting.
Oh, and Hulk smashes these guys. 💃
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Gas is different from Omega's power. Cold very rarely effects Hulk. I don't recall electricity changing him, though he has been taken down by it a few times.
Reds Phermone release is like a gas sortof. Hulks healing factor will be working to counteract it constantly.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Havok's blast is a good example but I don't believe these three can come close to duplicating that level of pain. Havok targeted the Hulk's brain with his power.
Pain comes from different variations. Eventhough the trio have different abilities than Havok, i dont doubt the Death Factor can make Hulk feel worse or as worse than Havoks blast did. Before targeting Hulks brain, Havok blasted Hulk twice and downed/stunned him. The final blast, which was the brain one, ko'd him.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
There's no indication of the nukes doing any damage to the Hulk. We need to see Gladiator heat vision a full power Hulk before we know how it will effect Hulk.
All we have to go off of is the example we do have. Although thats not Hulk at his most powerful incarnation, im sure hes done impressive things also. Thus if those examples can be used for him, i dont see a reason they cant be used against him.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Hulk's durability was effected by the poison as well. He even remarked on it as he tried and failed to inject the antidote into his arm. He was surprised that the needle still couldn't penetrate his skin.These three guys combined can't hit as hard as Madman so Hulk's durability would have to be very, very low.
Thats just a point im trying to make. Phermones and the Death Factor will be effecting Hulks strength and durabilty tremendously. What was the needle made out of? Steel?
There really isnt a need for the trio to be able to hit like a 100cl character. Due to Hulks lack of durability and strength here, theres no doubt hed feel every hit.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
I'd imagine they were as they penetrated Hulk's skin. But not deep enough to worry Hulk at all even with Piecemeal's considerable strength.
Hmm. Just because they penetrated Hulks skin doesnt automatically mean they were Adamantium. I guess that has to get looked into.
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Could be that Hulk's not connecting well at all on Wolverine. Wolverine's a fast little.... guy.I doubt that we're going to agree on this so this'll be my last reply. I must say that it's nice to find someone who can debate without insulting.
Oh, and Hulk smashes these guys. 💃
It looks like Hulk connects well on alot of the hits agasint Wolvie, although technically Wolvies insides should be mush afterwards.
It guess we wont agree, but its cool. It is nice indeed to have insult-free debate. Always a pleasure.
😆 And Hulk still loses. Bah!
Originally posted by Milkie
Dude... the Earth should still be destoryed...http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6370082
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6370086
That's the biggest load of sh*t I've seen in comics so far. What's he suppose to be, Pre-Crisis Hulk?