Rune King Thor vs All-Star Superman

Started by spetznaz4 pages
Originally posted by The_Olympian
but he can, can't he?

I believe he can .....and that was my point.
Characters like SS are hyper powered, but the same people saying Superman is 'too powerful' apparently have no problem with Marvel's field of 'deity-level/myriad-power/I-can-do-it' characters.

The Flash evacuates a city at near the speed of light and people complain. Yet celebrate SS's 100 times the speed of light travel.

Superman gets a powerboost and Marvel fans groan. Yet Thor becoming a bona fide deity able to blow away planets is 'amazing.'

Karate Kid is supposedly too powerful, but Captain America (according to a certain person) can beat him ....and the Champion (who is like KK in terms of knowing a myriad fighting styles) PLUS has superstrength and invulnerability. Not a peep about the Champion (even when his strength stems from residual energy from the freakin' BIG BANG, is an elder of the universe who has been around since the inception of this reality, and is class 100!)

Batgirl is an 'average fighter' to a certain person, but hey ....Wolverine can hang with the Hulk.

Ion is supposedly 'ridiculous,' but hey .....Thanos with the IG has carte blanche to trounce abstracts and other high level cosmics (as well as playing 'pluck the fiddle' with reality) and all the Marvel fanboys is murmur 'yum!'

In essence, this is simply bias. More of DC's popular characters can defeat more of Marvel's popular characters (although Marvel has a whole list of more obscure characters that could wipe the floor with any DC character below Spectre level, but obviously a person who would like to see Thing beat Wonderwoman or have Spiderman trump the Flash wouldn't find it as satisfying to use the uber-powerful but relatively obscure characters). Thus you have a situation where some angst sets in, and suddenly you hear talk of Superman fanboys (even from people who had a match between Superman and VENOM ....who is the fb) and that the Flash's speed if a plot device (erm, what else is the Flash supposed to do? His power is speed and its effects).

There are a good number of characters that can defeat superman in Marvel, but people like Thing/Colossus/Hulk/Spiderman/Venom/etc are simply not among that list.
And that irks some.

Let's compare this.

Man of Steel Superman was nowhere near Pre-Crisis. Breath of fresh air. Then what happens? Slowly but surely, DC powers everybody back up again, getting closer and closer to the pre-crisis level. Then, they have another Crisis. To be honest, it's annoying. They do it to appease the fans of their Gods, and it's stupid. What did they end up with now? Superdick version 2.0, Batgod, and Wonder B*tch. OYL, no Batman, No Wonder Psycho, and no Superman. It's not the fact that they're uber. It's the fact that they tailor Superman to be so powerful it's ridiculous, just for the sake of the fanboys.

Lemme say this, since i was once wrongly tarred with the stigma of "Superman hater". I hate jobber auras. With an ugly, icecold passion.
Superman has one of the largest jobber auras in mainstream comics. Thats why i also hate Wolverine, and Thanos as well.
DS not so much. Identity Crisis was not all bad, except for dumbing down GL.
Superman has an entire universe that jobs to him. DC Editorial Staff has outright said that he's the main character of their universe. Thus he has his own version of Terrax at his side. Yes Terrax. Terrax = Manhunter.
Someone who is obviously top tier, yet is shown to be top tier only to job to others. And to then up their stock. He will get feats, Manhunter that is, if only to remain firmly in the top tier, so he can job when necessary. Thus putting the guy he jobs to, slightly above the top tier. Manhunter is the hypeman of the kryptonians. And what a multitalented, potentially powerful hypeman he is. Thats why i hate Superman at times.

My other beef comes in debates. My parents will tell anybody, I loved to argue. I love to turn peoples opinions using fact and logic. Thus i love vs forums. Superman, however is a hella cheap character to use in a vs forum. As is Surfer and Flash etc. But the crutch with flash is that he can't hit you with class 100 strength off rip. Superman and Surfer can. And they do this at a hair under lightspeed. IT's hella annoying and difficult to debate against.
And i never had a problem with superman getting a power up. Never. But when his fans come in and say, nobody less than Galactus can handle sundipped superman, with no true feats to back it up, other than him pushing a planet with engines working against him, it annoying.

Impressive feat, but annoying how someone believes that if you can simply punch harder than before, you can now only be handled by someone who's the third force of the universe. Thats really baffling and annoying. I don't hate Superman the character. I hate Superman, the jobber aura, and disregard for continuity and stannism....Yes, no longer will i call his legions of blind rabid followers fanboys. They will now be known as Stans, in honor of the song by Marshall.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Let's compare this.

Man of Steel Superman was nowhere near Pre-Crisis. Breath of fresh air. Then what happens? Slowly but surely, DC powers everybody back up again, getting closer and closer to the pre-crisis level. Then, they have another Crisis. To be honest, it's annoying. They do it to appease the fans of their Gods, and it's stupid. What did they end up with now? Superdick version 2.0, Batgod, and Wonder B*tch. OYL, no Batman, No Wonder Psycho, and no Superman. It's not the fact that they're uber. It's the fact that they tailor Superman to be so powerful it's ridiculous, just for the sake of the fanboys.

Fair approach to the argument, and at least you did not say that Superman is too powerful and then argue on another thread how RKThor can blow planet asunder with a mighty blast of his Odin force.

Superman is definitely getting more powerful, especially when compared to his ebb (when his powers had been toned down by a considerable limit). Personally I have no problem with that (and in fact welcome it), with only one caveat: as long as he doesn’t start sneezing planets away (or for that matter blowing them apart with Odin force, flying at 100 times the speed of light ala Silver Surfer, or suddenly go from a merehex-bolt throwing probability-meddler like the Scarlet Witch into wiping out universe wide reality and literally turning everything topsy-turvy and rewriting reality just because she had some insanity malaise that might very well be just a mega case of PMS. Goodness, at least when Hal as Parallax tried doing that whole ‘re-write reality’ thing in DC he first absorbed all the energy of Oa, but all Wanda had to do was go into ‘Mama overdrive’ due to grief over the twins).
Thus, as long as Superman doesn’t start doing any of the above I have no problem with his power sets getting a boost.
And if you are honest you will agree that none of Superman’s current and ongoing power boosts have really been at a level that is obscene. And this is from a subjective as well as an objective perspective.
Yet there are characters in Marvel that all over a sudden go ‘uber’ (or for that matter even undergo sublimation, and all together bypass the ‘uber’ stage and go into the ‘re-writing reality’ aspect of things with the snap of a finger).

Now, obviously there is a case of All-Star Superman.
Aren’t his power boosts ‘obscene’ (and yet I am saying Superman’s power boosts are not a problem)?
Well, the thing is that AS-S is basically an unorthodox ‘what if.’ It is not part of the main continuity, but basically a hyped up look at the character (think of the Ultimate universe in Marvel, but maybe in a different direction). And the stories in AS-S are actually very good (even though AS-S is probably the most powerful version of Superman since Pre-Crisis). Good story, from both an artistic as well as a literally level (which is interesting since some said that an uber powerful character wouldn’t be able to hold any water when it came to consistency and constituency of story and plot, yet AS-S has explored FAR MORE components of the character than the ‘weak Superman’ story plots that you apparently like), and very well received (and no …..not just from what you call ‘Superman fanboys’).
Thus AS-S is not a good example of the power boost I am talking about since it takes place off-tangent to normal continuity, and EVEN THEN the consistency and constituency of the plot is better than a whole lot of things out there (including a lot of characters who are weak and slow and dumb and ‘human’). The whole story of AS-S can be said to be akin to the conundrum a deity (for example in old Greek plays) would find himself in, where he finds himself stuck between his own godhood and his own connection to humanity (and in AS-S case mortality since he is dying).
Although I guess it requires more thought to look at the deeper levels of this than is required, say, to thumb through an issue of Wolverine slashing at a Sentinel.

Going back to normal Superman and his power boost.
I’ve always maintained in other threads that Superman is not a male-Rogue, or a flying Colossus with Cyclop’s optic blasts and Storm’s winds, but he is the epitome of the archetypical Super super-hero.
He is supposed to be powerful, and thus if he is made to be truly strong (unlike the version where, at his weakest, he had to use some effort to lift a tank) is fine with me.

AS LONG AS THE CAVEATS I LISTED (such as the crazy pre-crisis feats, as well as some of the sudden and preposterous power boosts seen in Marvel) are noted.
A Superman who sneezes away galaxies, or re-writes reality (like the Scarlet Witch ) or wipes minds to ‘erase memory of his existence’ (like Sentry ….let me not say anything more about that character), or whips around at hundred multiples of light speed is NOT a good Superman.
And the power boosts he is been given are NOT anywhere close to the above (which is why they made the All Star version, and even that version is not flying around at hundred multiples of light speed or playing ‘Simon Says’ with reality).

Anyways, in conclusion let me say that I think you are genuine ThunderStrike (and anyways your posts always have logic, thus I believe you when you say you have an issue with such a power boost).
However I am certain that most other people saying ‘Superman is too strong,’ especially the ones who go ahead and start espousing how (Put Marvel Character Here) is so power that he/she/it can (put preposterous feat that the character couldn’t do at last publishing here) on another concurrent thread.
I’d say far and large it is people who are not happy that Superman can make their fave character (which in Marvel is usually powerful, but not powerful enough to deal with Superman ….eg Thing, Spiderman, Wolverine etc) look like a chump.

Anyways …..just my $0.02.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Let's compare this.

Man of Steel Superman was nowhere near Pre-Crisis. Breath of fresh air. Then what happens? Slowly but surely, DC powers everybody back up again, getting closer and closer to the pre-crisis level. Then, they have another Crisis. To be honest, it's annoying. They do it to appease the fans of their Gods, and it's stupid. What did they end up with now? Superdick version 2.0, Batgod, and Wonder B*tch. OYL, no Batman, No Wonder Psycho, and no Superman. It's not the fact that they're uber. It's the fact that they tailor Superman to be so powerful it's ridiculous, just for the sake of the fanboys.


Why does this only apply to DC or Superdick, Batgod, and Wonder B*tch as you so charmingly put it? The Silver Surfer is much more powerful than he was under the pen of Stan Lee where I recall he was knocked senseless by a sledgehammer to the head or the X-Men who get powered up every mini series or Spider-Man who seems to be on a streak of upgrades. I think everyone got the hint Thanos was uber the first time he took over the universe and fooled all the abstracts.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And i never had a problem with superman getting a power up. Never. But when his fans come in and say, nobody less than Galactus can handle sundipped superman, with no true feats to back it up, other than him pushing a planet with engines working against him, it annoying.

Welcome to my problem with the Sentry. 😄

Well, your .02 for some reason always holds more worth, Spetznaz. I think that, as a whole, Superman is a giant on DC earth, but on a galactic scale is a very small entity. The big thing is that he seems to keep gaining little tidbits of power and power, yet it comes from Krypton, which I always thought was a planet of thinkers and scientists, and warlords and combat practices weren't the best idea, considering it was a literal paradise. Now, there is one thing that ruined it all aside from the powerups, and that's Superman: Birthright. They basically took a genius start for Superman and spit on it. Why? Because to be honest, I think that DC comics made Superman into a Jesus figure. Know, being a theology student, I know how it goes. They've made him into a perfect being. I think that AS-S is what DC really wants, but cannot do with Superman for long because it seems too far removed from reality, and more and more comic fans scream for a realistic standpoint on the modern superhero. I think that when Superman returns, they need to start over again. Go Man of Steel Superman, where his beginnings were just genius, but still have the kryptonian ideal of a great world. However, I don't think that he should get the same respect that he should. I think that if DC maintains the cynicism seen in Infinite Crisis, then we'd be able to see Superman as more of a 3-D character. That's honestly why I don't mind Surfer, Thanos, Thor, Beta Ray, and others being really powerful. Their characters are VERY strong. Thor is a god who considers himself more human than Asgardian. Silver Surfer fights for peace in the universe, because he may never have inner peace himself. Thanos is a titan with nearly limitless powers, but he's lonely in the universe. His thirst will never be quenched by power. I think that a new twist needs to be taken on Superman.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Well, your .02 for some reason always holds more worth, Spetznaz. I think that, as a whole, Superman is a giant on DC earth, but on a galactic scale is a very small entity. The big thing is that he seems to keep gaining little tidbits of power and power, yet it comes from Krypton, which I always thought was a planet of thinkers and scientists, and warlords and combat practices weren't the best idea, considering it was a literal paradise. Now, there is one thing that ruined it all aside from the powerups, and that's Superman: Birthright. They basically took a genius start for Superman and spit on it. Why? Because to be honest, I think that DC comics made Superman into a Jesus figure. Know, being a theology student, I know how it goes. They've made him into a perfect being. I think that AS-S is what DC really wants, but cannot do with Superman for long because it seems too far removed from reality, and more and more comic fans scream for a realistic standpoint on the modern superhero. I think that when Superman returns, they need to start over again. Go Man of Steel Superman, where his beginnings were just genius, but still have the kryptonian ideal of a great world. However, I don't think that he should get the same respect that he should. I think that if DC maintains the cynicism seen in Infinite Crisis, then we'd be able to see Superman as more of a 3-D character. That's honestly why I don't mind Surfer, Thanos, Thor, Beta Ray, and others being really powerful. Their characters are VERY strong. Thor is a god who considers himself more human than Asgardian. Silver Surfer fights for peace in the universe, because he may never have inner peace himself. Thanos is a titan with nearly limitless powers, but he's lonely in the universe. His thirst will never be quenched by power. I think that a new twist needs to be taken on Superman.

👆 Damn Thunderstrike much respect to on this debate and I agree with 100%, Dc heroes are Gods as where Marvel charcters are more human even though they have godlike abilities.

I'm glad just to have Spetznaz's respect.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Well, your .02 for some reason always holds more worth, Spetznaz. I think that, as a whole, Superman is a giant on DC earth, but on a galactic scale is a very small entity. The big thing is that he seems to keep gaining little tidbits of power and power, yet it comes from Krypton, which I always thought was a planet of thinkers and scientists, and warlords and combat practices weren't the best idea, considering it was a literal paradise. Now, there is one thing that ruined it all aside from the powerups, and that's Superman: Birthright. They basically took a genius start for Superman and spit on it. Why? Because to be honest, I think that DC comics made Superman into a Jesus figure. Know, being a theology student, I know how it goes. They've made him into a perfect being. I think that AS-S is what DC really wants, but cannot do with Superman for long because it seems too far removed from reality, and more and more comic fans scream for a realistic standpoint on the modern superhero. I think that when Superman returns, they need to start over again. Go Man of Steel Superman, where his beginnings were just genius, but still have the kryptonian ideal of a great world. However, I don't think that he should get the same respect that he should. I think that if DC maintains the cynicism seen in Infinite Crisis, then we'd be able to see Superman as more of a 3-D character. That's honestly why I don't mind Surfer, Thanos, Thor, Beta Ray, and others being really powerful. Their characters are VERY strong. Thor is a god who considers himself more human than Asgardian. Silver Surfer fights for peace in the universe, because he may never have inner peace himself. Thanos is a titan with nearly limitless powers, but he's lonely in the universe. His thirst will never be quenched by power. I think that a new twist needs to be taken on Superman.

👆, damn man you are took the words right out of my mouth.
Finale somebody with logic.

Originally posted by the Darkone
👆 Damn Thunderstrike much respect to on this debate and I agree with 100%, Dc heroes are Gods as where Marvel charcters are more human even though they have godlike abilities.

How though? The same thing he said for Thor can be applied 100% for Superman.

Birthright, as much people crap on it, took a deeper look at Superman as a person than any other story.

If you'd like to see more of my crazy analyses, check the Slade Explained link under my sig.

Originally posted by Validus
Why does everyone complain when Superman gets a power up yet smile from ear to ear when others ascend to godhood? 😕

They get upset because the know the truth supermans the best and all the other heros they worship are wannabes.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
No. My dislike for Superman comes from the fact he never loses to people he should get killed by because of the simple fact that he's Superman. Superman fans are rabid wolves when you tell them that their favorite hero can be beat.

Hyperion is a different case. His character in Supreme Power fascinates me because of the fact that he is a hero to the bone, but is rejected by the world around him, and has always felt alone. The thing with Hyperion is that he can't find solace. It's not the power level that draws me to the character. It's the same way with Thor. I love the fact that he's a God that identifies with Humans more than he does fellow gods. Beta Ray Bill is another fave of mine because he's a great warrior with a heart for people. However, I think that DC writers write Superman like he's Jesus, which I find just flat out dumb. I've got good reason not to like Superman, just like I have good reason not to like Wonder Woman as well.

If you remember what Captain America said about DC, that rang true with Infinite Crisis. It's kinda foreboding, if you think about it.

lol your talking bullshit, superman is more of a superhero than anyone... so shove your opinion up ya arse, because more people realize superman is that damn good, not that damn bad, fcuk off loser

"lol your talking bullshit, superman is more of a superhero than anyone... so shove your opinion up ya arse, because more people realize superman is that damn good, not that damn bad, fcuk off loser"

And then you call others cock heads because they are sarcastic!

😆

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Let's compare this.

Man of Steel Superman was nowhere near Pre-Crisis. Breath of fresh air. Then what happens? Slowly but surely, DC powers everybody back up again, getting closer and closer to the pre-crisis level. Then, they have another Crisis. To be honest, it's annoying. They do it to appease the fans of their Gods, and it's stupid. What did they end up with now? Superdick version 2.0, Batgod, and Wonder B*tch. OYL, no Batman, No Wonder Psycho, and no Superman. It's not the fact that they're uber. It's the fact that they tailor Superman to be so powerful it's ridiculous, just for the sake of the fanboys.

Your hatred of Superman and your love of Marvel characters is disturbing.
Is there some rule (and not just for you) that someone has to pick a company and defend it's characters while crapping on the other?

Superman is NOT too powerful. If he was, why would you and others even begin to argue in VS battles against him? We would all be in agreement that Superman wins.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Fair approach to the argument, and at least you did not say that Superman is too powerful and then argue on another thread how RKThor can blow planet asunder with a mighty blast of his Odin force.

Superman is definitely getting more powerful, especially when compared to his ebb (when his powers had been toned down by a considerable limit). Personally I have no problem with that (and in fact welcome it), with only one caveat: as long as he doesn’t start sneezing planets away (or for that matter blowing them apart with Odin force, flying at 100 times the speed of light ala Silver Surfer, or suddenly go from a merehex-bolt throwing probability-meddler like the Scarlet Witch into wiping out universe wide reality and literally turning everything topsy-turvy and rewriting reality just because she had some insanity malaise that might very well be just a mega case of PMS. Goodness, at least when Hal as Parallax tried doing that whole ‘re-write reality’ thing in DC he first absorbed all the energy of Oa, but all Wanda had to do was go into ‘Mama overdrive’ due to grief over the twins).
Thus, as long as Superman doesn’t start doing any of the above I have no problem with his power sets getting a boost.
And if you are honest you will agree that none of Superman’s current and ongoing power boosts have really been at a level that is obscene. And this is from a subjective as well as an objective perspective.
Yet there are characters in Marvel that all over a sudden go ‘uber’ (or for that matter even undergo sublimation, and all together bypass the ‘uber’ stage and go into the ‘re-writing reality’ aspect of things with the snap of a finger).

Now, obviously there is a case of All-Star Superman.
Aren’t his power boosts ‘obscene’ (and yet I am saying Superman’s power boosts are not a problem)?
Well, the thing is that AS-S is basically an unorthodox ‘what if.’ It is not part of the main continuity, but basically a hyped up look at the character (think of the Ultimate universe in Marvel, but maybe in a different direction). And the stories in AS-S are actually very good (even though AS-S is probably the most powerful version of Superman since Pre-Crisis). Good story, from both an artistic as well as a literally level (which is interesting since some said that an uber powerful character wouldn’t be able to hold any water when it came to consistency and constituency of story and plot, yet AS-S has explored FAR MORE components of the character than the ‘weak Superman’ story plots that you apparently like), and very well received (and no …..not just from what you call ‘Superman fanboys’).
Thus AS-S is not a good example of the power boost I am talking about since it takes place off-tangent to normal continuity, and EVEN THEN the consistency and constituency of the plot is better than a whole lot of things out there (including a lot of characters who are weak and slow and dumb and ‘human’). The whole story of AS-S can be said to be akin to the conundrum a deity (for example in old Greek plays) would find himself in, where he finds himself stuck between his own godhood and his own connection to humanity (and in AS-S case mortality since he is dying).
Although I guess it requires more thought to look at the deeper levels of this than is required, say, to thumb through an issue of Wolverine slashing at a Sentinel.

Going back to normal Superman and his power boost.
I’ve always maintained in other threads that Superman is not a male-Rogue, or a flying Colossus with Cyclop’s optic blasts and Storm’s winds, but he is the epitome of the archetypical Super super-hero.
He is supposed to be powerful, and thus if he is made to be truly strong (unlike the version where, at his weakest, he had to use some effort to lift a tank) is fine with me.

AS LONG AS THE CAVEATS I LISTED (such as the crazy pre-crisis feats, as well as some of the sudden and preposterous power boosts seen in Marvel) are noted.
A Superman who sneezes away galaxies, or re-writes reality (like the Scarlet Witch ) or wipes minds to ‘erase memory of his existence’ (like Sentry ….let me not say anything more about that character), or whips around at hundred multiples of light speed is NOT a good Superman.
And the power boosts he is been given are NOT anywhere close to the above (which is why they made the All Star version, and even that version is not flying around at hundred multiples of light speed or playing ‘Simon Says’ with reality).

Anyways, in conclusion let me say that I think you are genuine ThunderStrike (and anyways your posts always have logic, thus I believe you when you say you have an issue with such a power boost).
However I am certain that most other people saying ‘Superman is too strong,’ especially the ones who go ahead and start espousing how (Put Marvel Character Here) is so power that he/she/it can (put preposterous feat that the character couldn’t do at last publishing here) on another concurrent thread.
I’d say far and large it is people who are not happy that Superman can make their fave character (which in Marvel is usually powerful, but not powerful enough to deal with Superman ….eg Thing, Spiderman, Wolverine etc) look like a chump.

Anyways …..just my $0.02.

That was more like your $1.25! 😱 😆

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Your hatred of Superman and your love of Marvel characters is disturbing.
Is there some rule (and not just for you) that someone has to pick a company and defend it's characters while crapping on the other?

Superman is NOT too powerful. If he was, why would you and others even begin to argue in VS battles against him? We would all be in agreement that Superman wins.

Thats one of the reasons i am starting to hate marvel its their darn fanboys who cant accept that thier are great heros outside the marvel universe, a line i am used to hearing from marvel fanboys is supes has no dept or character and this comes from people who look upon a Dc comic like vampires view sunlight word of advise Marvel boys pick up a supes comic and i guarantee you that you will be hooked 😉 .

Originally posted by MattDay
lol your talking bullshit, superman is more of a superhero than anyone... so shove your opinion up ya arse, because more people realize superman is that damn good, not that damn bad, fcuk off loser

No , you F*ck off , Noob.

Superman is a hero , no more no less. He is not 'more of a hero' then Spiderman or Thor (As an example) . You are just another rabid superman fanboy , it sickens me that people like you sully my countries name.

Also you speak bullshit , now if anyone disbelieves me i did a little research. All this guy does is hang around the superman section or on any post that involves supes, he also believes Supes can tap into 'Hulk style' power to amp himself.

[QUOTE=6388336]Originally posted by grey fox
No , [b]you F*ck off , Noob.

Superman is a hero , no more no less. He is not 'more of a hero' then Spiderman or Thor (As an example) . You are just another rabid superman fanboy , it sickens me that people like you sully my countries name.

Actually i think you may be wrong there pal superman has proved his a better hero than both thor and spiderman based on deeds and feats.
Spiderman stops villians like doc ock from stealing from banks and his greatest rival is venom, superman stops hurricanes and saves planes as well as the planet his greatest rival is doomsday and i am not sure thats even accurate anymore. I didnt state luthor as his greatest rival because i was basing it on strenght.

And well thor cant say much about him although he is a good hero so is spidey but they arnt superman.

Originally posted by sexyking
[QUOTE=6388336]Originally posted by grey fox
[B]No , [b]you
F*ck off , Noob.

Superman is a hero , no more no less. He is not 'more of a hero' then Spiderman or Thor (As an example) . You are just another rabid superman fanboy , it sickens me that people like you sully my countries name.

Actually i think you may be wrong there pal superman has proved his a better hero than both thor and spiderman based on deeds and feats.
Spiderman stops villians like doc ock from stealing from banks and his greatest rival is venom, superman stops hurricanes and saves planes as well as the planet his greatest rival is doomsday and i am not sure thats even accurate anymore. I didnt state luthor as his greatest rival because i was basing it on strenght.

And well thor cant say much about him although he is a good hero so is spidey but they arnt superman. [/B]

Yes , but spidey rarely let's anyone die. Unlike supes whom angst's over how half of (Insert dying country) is dead while he was kicking (Insert random overtly powerful villain) 's ass across the universe.