PVS everyone has the right to say whatever they choose to say.
But not in the event where possible instigation and sudden violence may occur.
You are missing the point.....
Freedom of Speech has its limits. There is no denying this. When something you say can put someone's life or safety in immediate danger, it is unconstitutional.
Go protest at a Funeral filled with heartbroken mourners...you imagine these mourners are going to be rational and go "oh its thier right to trespass our funeral, and interrupt our peace and greiving with thier protests. Let us just ignore them"
UR INSANE if you think that's the case.
It is INSTIGATION whether intentional or not.
Bottom Line: You insult a person who died right in front of the relative who is grieving.....if a fight occurs..... WHO do you think gets arrested? The mourner OR you for insulting their late relative ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
PVS everyone has the right to say whatever they choose to say.But not in the event where possible instigation and sudden violence may occur.
thats horseshit. should we jail people for wearing a yankees jacket to a redsox game? lets outlaw our right to give someone the finger when they piss us off. because its "possible instigation and sudden violence may occur."
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You are missing the point....Freedom of Speech has its limits. There is no denying this. When something you say can put someone's life or safety in immediate danger, it is unconstitutional.
it has to DIRECTLY cause harm.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Go protest at a Funeral filled with heartbroken mourners...you imagine these mourners are going to be rational and go "oh its thier right to trespass our funeral, and interrupt our peace and greiving with thier protests. Let us just ignore them"UR INSANE if you think that's the case.
It is INSTIGATION whether intentional or not.
there you go again wasting my time with your self rightous brow beating. first you wag your finger at me. and then you go on to put words in my mouth. well, i dont feel ashamed for arguing this point dispite your cries of "ZOMG THEY ARE GREIVING!!!11111" amidst your ridiculous leaps in logic.
once again, this:
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Go protest at a Funeral filled with heartbroken mourners...you imagine these mourners are going to be rational and go "oh its thier right to trespass our funeral, and interrupt our peace and greiving with thier protests. Let us just ignore them"
...is the weakest and most braindead way to agrue. care to address my point or will you be pleased just to continue arguing with yourself and yelling "MOURNING!!!!!!!" and feel holy, all the time diregarding that trespassing is illegal yet you claim that i think it should be legal.
so now we have a flat out lie. 😬
PVS....you fail to see my point.
I am not preaching Holy anything, I am not even religious.
You are comparing a FUNERAL to a baseball game, and you can't see how ludacris that is.
Also you are debating like a CHILD.....
I am not being sappy or sensitive here. I am being objective.
Protesting and interrupting the privacy of Mourners at a funeral service is TOTAL instigation.
If you fail to see that, then that's your problem not mine.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
PVS....you fail to see my point.I am not preaching Holy anything, I am not even religious.
You are comparing a FUNERAL to a baseball game, and you can't see how ludacris that is.
no, i am comparing 3 instances where you're instigating violence. you are not creating it, but you are putting yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. like, say, flipping someone the bird...you know, the other point that you ignored just so you could feel justified in yelling 'ZOMG BASEBALL!!!!11111FUNERAL211!' should it be outlawed? how is the logic different? explain that without trying to irrationally tug at my heart strings or by putting words in my mouth
if not you are adopting the know-it-all hear-nothing strategy of a....
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
CHILD.....I am not being sappy or sensitive here. I am being objective.
no you are acting completely on passion and illogical prejudice. i asked you to explain why its ok to invite danger in any realm of social conduct, but when involved with FUNERALS its suddenly taboo?
you have not answered...all you did was capitalise your chosen buzzwords. who would have that 'baseball' would end up being one?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Protesting and interrupting the privacy of Mourners at a funeral service is TOTAL instigation.
so is insulting someone or a group of people. so is even offending them...and what if only your presence is deemed offensive?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you fail to see that, then that's your problem not mine.
oh, but i'm afraid it is
Originally posted by PVS
no you are acting completely on passion and illogical prejudice. i asked you to explain why its ok to invite danger in any realm of social conduct, but when involved with FUNERALS its suddenly taboo?
you have not answered...all you did was capitalise your chosen buzzwords. who would have that 'baseball' would end up being one?
Insulting someone in public is offensive, and if a fight results the one who started the offense wil most likely be charged depending what offense it is.
But most likely a fight will not occur, because there is no presumed hieghtened sensitivity in normal situations like walking down the street, and no expected hieghtened sensitivity to insults in a baseball game, even though that is debatable.
Baseball games are meant for competition.
The sidewalk and street are free for anyone to walk across.
A Funeral is a private ceremony where the relatives of a dead person are NOT PRONE TO LOGIC....it would be worse than insulting a woman with her period, or intentionally provoking someone who is bi polar.
At a Funeral there is major heightened sensitivity, and to intrude on their privacy and right to mourn in peace with an unwelcomed, unauthorized protest is not just unlawful and offensive, and it instigation.
If you don't get my point by now, i give up.
How could you NOT possibly understand this ?
oh, but i'm afraid it is
My problem? NOPE..i dont givva shit
Should Pro-Life groups be banned from protesting outside of abortion clinics? Women who seek abortions are often experiencing hardships and are deeply troubled about their circumnstances. Do you expect them to behave rationally to people calling them "baby killers" and waving pictures of aborted fetuses in their faces?
yeah people who are against abortion aren't promoting the killing of innocent people. nor are they making attacks on specific individuals like people who would attend someone's funeral so they can bash them while they're dead. people who protest abortion are protesting an idea, and not hurting anyone.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Insulting someone in public is offensive, and if a fight results the one who started the offense wil most likely be charged depending what offense it is.But most likely a fight will not occur, because there is no presumed hieghtened sensitivity in normal situations like walking down the street, and no expected hieghtened sensitivity to insults in a baseball game, even though that is debatable.
Baseball games are meant for competition.
no, its meant for entertainment. its not part of the game for one group of fans to heckle another to the point of violence.
you are intentionally missing the overall point that speech should not be made illegal which is not directly threatening, and splitting hairs for the win...and failing. address the point and give me a valid reason. not just your opinion touted as law/fact.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The sidewalk and street are free for anyone to walk across.A Funeral is a private ceremony where the relatives of a dead person are NOT PRONE TO LOGIC....it would be worse than insulting a woman with her period, or intentionally provoking someone who is bi polar.
or urinating on a psychotic with a chainsaw, i get it. or giving the finger to some guy who cut you off on the road. instigating violence of any kind should be illegal. tresspassing, as you keep repeating, IS illegal when on private property. however they do not actually go on the property when the case is otherwise.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
At a Funeral there is major heightened sensitivity, and to intrude on their privacy and right to mourn in peace with an unwelcomed, unauthorized protest is not just unlawful and offensive, and it instigation.If you don't get my point by now, i give up.
How could you NOT possibly understand this ?
[B]oh, but i'm afraid it is
[/B]
you have not explained why i am so wrong and you are so right. break it down for us simpletons and explain, objectively, without all the double standards and the typical 'just because' statement.
tell me why its ok to interfere, heckle, and taunt other people, inviting trouble, so long as its not "A FUNERAL!!!!!!111"
your only logic seems to be that if something is deemed too offensive by your own standards, then it should be outlawed. however you selectively isolate that moral judgement only on funerals. what is different about instigation elsewhere? selective principles based on opinion does not cut it here.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My problem? NOPE..i dont givva shit
didnt think you would. but thanks 😬
Originally posted by PVS
no, its meant for entertainment. its not part of the game for one group of fans to heckle another to the point of violence.you are intentionally missing the overall point that speech should not be made illegal which is not directly threatening, and splitting hairs for the win...and failing. address the point and give me a valid reason. not just your opinion touted as law/fact.
or urinating on a psychotic with a chainsaw, i get it. or giving the finger to some guy who cut you off on the road. instigating violence of any kind should be illegal. tresspassing, as you keep repeating, IS illegal when on private property. however they do not actually go on the property when the case is otherwise.
you have not explained why i am so wrong and you are so right. break it down for us simpletons and explain, objectively, without all the double standards and the typical 'just because' statement.
tell me why its ok to interfere, heckle, and taunt other people, inviting trouble, so long as its not "A FUNERAL!!!!!!111"your only logic seems to be that if something is deemed too offensive by your own standards, then it should be outlawed. however you selectively isolate that moral judgement only on funerals. what is different about instigation elsewhere? selective principles based on opinion does not cut it here.
didnt think you would. but thanks 😬
Pwnage...
The difference between an Abortion Clinic and a Funeral is whether or not the funeral has WALLS.
Abortion Clinics do...not all funerals do.
If the funeral is taking place, let's say inside the funeral home, and the protestors are all the way outside, then there is no immediate provocation.
But let's say, if the funeral is an outside cememony and the protestors are barging in on the same land as the funeral space....
Then they are not even allowing the people to have thier funeral.
How is that NOT instigation? How is that not disturbing the peace? How is that constitutional ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay PVS...Valid points like WHAT ?You never even attacked my last points, ur just acting childish and i dont respond to that.
Listen i take it your this huge liberal that is behind freedom of choice...So AM I....but i don't like when freedom of Choice interferes with someone's ability to LIVE.
and now you'll tell me to repeat myself? read my post, genius. its on the same ****ing page. tell you what: why dont you just not reply to my posts unless you have something useful to say or actually respond to.
ok? if you want to talk, have the respect to answer to the points i have made and which you have rudely ignored. and you call me childish?
until you reply to my questions i have nothing to say to you besides "grow up"
no, its meant for entertainment. its not part of the game for one group of fans to heckle another to the point of violence.
See this i dont understand, so i cannot make a response....
you are intentionally missing the overall point that speech should not be made illegal which is not directly threatening, and splitting hairs for the win...and failing. address the point and give me a valid reason. not just your opinion touted as law/fact.
My opinion was never meant to be touted as law and fact, if you actually read my posts instead of skimming through them you would see that.
I think i already answered this.^ im not repeating.
or urinating on a psychotic with a chainsaw, i get it. or giving the finger to some guy who cut you off on the road. instigating violence of any kind should be illegal. tresspassing, as you keep repeating, IS illegal when on private property. however they do not actually go on the property when the case is otherwise.
Yes, we're getting somewhere.
If there is a Private Funeral Service where the mourners PAYED to have thier service taken on this land, and a bunch of INTRUDERS with thier signs and protests BARGE IN.....
its not only disallowing a Funeral to take place, it's disturbing the peace, an invasion of privacy, and instigation.
If you don't get this by now, i give up.
you have not explained why i am so wrong and you are so right. break it down for us simpletons and explain, objectively, without all the double standards and the typical 'just because' statement.
tell me why its ok to interfere, heckle, and taunt other people, inviting trouble, so long as its not "A FUNERAL!!!!!!111"
I never said that YOU were wrong, i am only defending my point.
And I am clearly telling you the FACT that Freedom of Speech has its limits, even here in United States. When someone's life may be threatened (directly OR indirectly) Freedom of Speech cannot protect this sort of action i.e. a possible Instigation.
You accuse me of being sappy and sensitive and emotional...in Insist my Objectivity in the matter. I am trying to explain to you WHY a situation like this would COUNT as Instigation and THEREFORE not be protected by the Freedom of Speech plause.
our only logic seems to be that if something is deemed too offensive by your own standards, then it should be outlawed.
NOPE...you are SEVERELY missing the point. This has nothing to do with being offensive or with my shitty little opinions. In the case where lives can be endangered or someone's physical safety can be endangered, Freedom of Speech cannot protect.
That's all. 😉
however you selectively isolate that moral judgement only on funerals.
No i dont.
what is different about instigation elsewhere?
Privacy....the endurance of a Ceremony
If two people get into a fight, and they get arrested, the person who INSTIGATED the fight in anyway will be charged.
How does Freedom of Speech protect them here?
selective principles based on opinion does not cut it here.
Again this is NOT my opinion. My opinion, nor yours counts, as you said. Freedom of Speech has limits.....whether you believe it or not.
and now you'll tell me to repeat myself? read my post, genius. its on the same ****ing page. tell you what: why dont you just not reply to my posts unless you have something useful to say or actually respond to.
ok? if you want to talk, have the respect to answer to the points i have made and which you have rudely ignored. and you call me childish?
until you reply to my questions i have nothing to say to you besides "grow up"
First of all PVS my previous response was not intended for you. It was a response to someone else.
The only one acting like a Child here is you.
I do not response to stupid little comments like these.