Originally posted by jaden101
you say there is no species that has been proven to have evolved from another...fair enough...you're entitled to that statement despite evidence to the contrary which has been posted a hell of a lot more than 3 times
It's funny when you say evidence to the contrary, most of your evidence of macro evolution are just examples of micro evolution, your logic is "Since micro evolution is true then so is macro evolution" Despite you haven't given a shred of evidence that mutations create new traits.
Originally posted by jaden101
im not talking about the opinion that something is complex therefor it must have been designed
Proof of common design:
"The golden ratio, otherwise known as the Divine Proportion or Phi, is a mathematical ratio with special properties and aesthetic significance. An enormous number of things in the universe are engineered around the ratio, ranging from the human body to snail shells to the orbits of the planets. Some argue that the prevalence of the Golden Ratio is positive evidence of a common design plan uniting a wide variety of phenomena.
The ratio itself
Phi is derived by dividing a line segment into two parts in such a way that the ratio of the smaller segment to the larger segment is the same as the ratio of the large segment to the whole.
The number is irrational, meaning it never ends or repeats in a decimal system. To the first ten decimals, it is 1.6180339887 ...
A golden rectangle is one in which the ratio of length to height is 1 phi.
The divine ratio also makes an appearance in the Fibonacci sequence. the fibonacci sequence is derived by starting with 0 and 1, and then calculating the next number in the sequence by adding the last two togther. Thus the sequence is 0, 1, 1 (0+1), 2(1+1), 3(1+2), 5(2+3), 8(3+5) and so on. The ratio of a number to the previous number in the sequence approximates the golden ratio, and comes to approximate it more closely as the values increase. Thus:
8/5 = 1.6
144/89 = 1.6179775280
10946/6765 = 1.6180339985
Instances of the ratio
Because Phi is irrational, it is impossible for anything to measure at "precisely" the golden ratio. However, a large number of things approximate the golden ratio to a startling degree.
Aesthetics
The divine ratio and golden rectangles appear throughout ancient architecture and art. It was believed to be the most aesthetically pleasing and harmonious means of design. Statistical analysis seems to indicate that "people involuntarily give preference to proportions that approximate to the Golden Section." The Oxford Companion to Art, Ed. Harold Osbome, First Edition, Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1978, p.489.
Egyptian pyramids were designed with reference to the golden ratio. Slant height / distance from center to perimeter = Phi;
Greek Parthenon designed and constructed out of golden rectangles;
Modern credit cards are golden rectangles;
The painting, The Last Supper, is based on the golden ratio;
The Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is based on the golden ratio;
Humans
The human head forms a golden rectangle;.
The mouth and nose are each placed at golden sections of the distance between the eyes and the bottom of the chin.
Whole body height / head to fingertips = Phi;
Top of head to fingertips / head to navel and elbows = Phi;
Top of head to navel and elbows / head to pectorals and inside top of arms = Phi;
Top of head to navel and elbows / width of shoulders = Phi;
Top of head to navel and elbows / length of forearm = Phi;
Top of head to navel and elbows / length of shinbone = Phi;
Top of head to pectorals / top of head to base of skull = Phi;
Top of head to pectorals / width of abdomen = Phi;
Length of Forearm / length of hand = Phi;
DNA
Each cycle of the DNA molecule measures 34 angstoms long by 21 angstroms wide. 34 and 21 are fibonacci numbers, as noted above. 34/21 is 1.619, approximating phi.
Other life
The bodies of dolphins are defined by the golden ratio
The bodies of ants are defined by the golden ratio
Snail shells and many seashells are golden spirals, that is, a spiral formed by making successively smaller golden rectangles.
In plants, petals, leaves, sections, and seeds, pinecones, pineapples and sunflowers all exhibit fibonacci numbers;
Fruit seeds form in golden spirals.
Astronomy
Golden ratio in the planets: The orbital periods, mean distances, and orbital velocities of the planets in the solar system are all related by phi to a statistical significance of over 99%.[1]
The rings of Saturn form two golden sections, divided by the Cassini division.[2]
Implications
Order from chaos
Order from chaos demonstrates in mathematical terms that a system can only become more ordered when the system is acted on by energy more ordered than the system itself; further, that a system decreases in order when it is acted on by energy less ordered than the system itself;
From this it is inferred that "mutation and natural selection" are inherently incapable of increasing information and order in a system, because random mutations are less ordered than the genome itself, and therefore capable only of decreasing the order in the genome. Natural selection is merely a "quality control" mechanism whereby the worst mutations and those characteristics not suited to a particular environment are weeded out. However, neither mutation nor natural selection are capable of accounting for an increase in genetic order and information.
Entropy, disorder, and randomness
When entropy is examined statistically it can be considered a measure of randomness. Now the more random a system is the more disordered it is. The formula for statistical entropy is:
S is entropy.
k is the Boltzmann Constant =
is the number of equivalent equally probable configurations. This is a direct measurement of disorder.
Random or disordered systems have such a significantly higher number of equivalent equally probable configurations, that they can basically be considered inevitable. Now entropy is not quite the same as disorder, but entropy is logarithmically related to disorder. Entropy can be considered a measurement of disorder in the way that the Richter Scale is a measurement of earthquakes or decibels are a measurement of sound. The result is that it is accurate to call entropy a measure of disorder. This means a reduction in entropy does result from an increase in organized complexity.
While the following concept is related to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it extends beyond the basic concept of the second law. It comes from a statistical analysis of how energy is applied to a system affects entropy. The fact that how energy is applied is critical to an increase or decrease in entropy is evident from the difference between construction work and a bomb.
Consider a pile of wood. If a group of people work to organize the pile of wood, a building can be built that has less entropy than the pile of would. If however a bomb of equal energy is applied to the pile of wood, the result is that the pile is scattered with more entropy than the pile of wood.
Now any time energy is applied to to a system there is some degree of randomness to how it is applied. The result is that randomness of the system is moved towards that of applied energy.
= The number of equivalent equally probable states of the system.
= The number of equivalent equally probable states of the application of energy.
Now the statistical formula for entropy is:
This results in:
and
The result is that:
or
(1)
Where:
= Entropy of system.
= Entropy of energy application.
= Maximum change in entropy.
The result is that if energy is applied to a system in a manner more random than the system, then it becomes more random. If the same amount of energy is applied to a system in a manner less random than the system, then it becomes less random. This explains why organized work can build buildings, but a bomb will bring it down. The more organized application of energy would be an organizing force.
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Evolutionists claim that natural selection communicates information from the environment to populations of organisms In fact natural selection communicates nothing. All it is, is a quality control mechanism. Natural selection can only select from what already exists. In and of itself, Natural selection causes no changes in DNA. The real source of genetic change for evolution is random changes in DNA called mutations.
Now DNA is very organized, while mutations are very random. This results in the following:
then
Plugging this in to formula 1:
This results in:
This means that random mutations can only increase the entropy of DNA. Furthermore since:
then
This means that mutations will increase the randomness of DNA. As a result the best that natural selection can do is to remove the most randomized DNA. So natural selection cannot communicate anything, therefore the general theory of evolution has no oganizing force and no program. The result is that since the general theory of evolution needs to decrease the entropy of DNA and lacks an oganizing force it would seem to contradict the laws of Thermodynamics.