I forgot how many wives he beheaded... Lets see from what I remember in my history class. He had two daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. He divorced his SPanish wife to cause tension between England and Spain. Then he married Anne so he could have a boy. Then he died, and Mary married Philip II. Then England went back to Catholicism. Then she died and Elizabeth I was the heir to the throne, then England went back to Protestanism.. Did I miss anything?
Just to make a small step towards the original topic again.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dan's opinion>Yours.
Can you please tell me, why Dan's opinion based on his personal feelings is by any instance more worth than mine ? Especially when he was only telling you in an e-mail that Sidious was more powerful not even saying what kind of "power" he's referring too ?
Actually he cut Simus down and Simus preserved his life and had his head removed from his body. And like you just said! Dathka became Dark Lord AFTER the war. And MArka won it IN A DUEL, see the issues with your argument now?
Dude. You destroy your own arguments by throwing that stuff in. First you try to hand me that people that once received the Dark Lord title are generally obeyed and respected - then you throw in a Dark Lord that was assassinated. And somehow they must have a huge wearout of Dark Lords: Dathka wasn't the first Dark Lord, claimed that title after winning a civil war and died. All happening in 7,000 BBY which is the same year in which the Sith Empire was established according to the NEC.
And it's also far less than what Sidious knew. "Every aspect of the force in all its guises.' I'm trusting canon over you.
Hyperbole. Sidious contradicts that statement himself because according to his own words he can't control Force Storms which are clearly generated using the force. Therefore he clearly didn't master "every aspect of the force in all its guises". I'm trusting primary source material over Sourcebooks.
Sidious was described as being bound by the Force itself and every Jedi...hm.
In case you didn't notice: Every Jedi that was present within the force ? According to the films which are the highest level of canon Qui-Gon was the only Jedi to know the ability to remain as an individual within the force. We know that Obi-Wan's spirit lost that ability before DE. So the only Jedi that could be left as individuals within the force are Yoda, Qui-Gon, possibly Vodo and Anakin Skywalker. Or to make it clearer: The idea that every Jedi became a force ghost after his death (and therefore the statement that "all Jedi who died before" were needed to lock away Sidious spirit) is retconned by ROTS.
And Kun fought the entire order? No, by his own admission he ran away without trying and had his body destroyed.
By his own admission the entire order is too powerful for him. I'd like to point out how the second in command of the PT order was too powerful for Sidious on his own and therefor overpowered him. Kun simply didn't see any chance to defeat thousands of Jedi on his own.
What would Sidious have done. Try to destroy the combined power of thousands of Jedi Knights with a force storm ?
And once more, when'd he use that knowledge? Oh, that's right, he didn't because he was destroyed a few hours later!
Where did Sidious ever use his knowledge ? Oh, that's right, he didn't because he was defeated over and over again.
Did Sidious use the force in the duel against Mace until he was disarmed and then Anakin comes right in in a world without luck?
Did Sidious with all his godliness got overpowered by Mace according to Lucas himself ? Yes.
Ok then. And Yoda still realized IF THE FIGHT CONTINUED, he'd die. No contradiction
Do we have Lucas own word that they stalemated ? Yes. Does the film show Yoda outclassing Sidious in all situations despite Sidious always had the better positions ? Yes. Does the script tell us that it "looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed" ? Yes. So Yoda would have died ? Maybe because of fighting Sidious while a bunch of Clone Troopers moving in and start firing at him but clearly Sidious on his own wasn't able to defeat him.
Show us the Hapes borders then? And Hutt space, Mandalorian and Chiss space.
The Hutt space is that great marked area below the part of space I've marked. The Hapes Consortium is the white planet above Ambria (the bottom left planet I've marked). And what do I care about Mandalorian space and Chiss space since both are clearly lying outside the Outer Rim (unknown regions). Irrelevant missdirection. Thanks for ignoring all other informations I handed to you.
Sidious had it excavated then. in CL, we see artifacts taken from Yavin 4, pointed out as such....and wait, Gantoris was powerful enough to hear Kun, but Luke Grandson of the Force Skywalker couldn't?
You did notice that all people Kun talked to were trained for weeks / months in the Academy before able to hear his voice. I'm pretty sure, Luke in ANH didn't have enough training to do the same. And I know he heared Kenobi but Obi-Wan used a special technique to remain as an individual within the force - as we now know.
No, she says "We". Motoko was kind enough to listen to the scene and write it down.
To be exact she says:
"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."
Notice the "we" here includes herself who still killed 3 Jedi Council Members with a single force attack and the Exile. The Exile defeated Nihilus in case you didn't notice and, according to Kreia, looking at him is "like staring at the death of the Force". And those kind of people are like "children" compared to the "prowess" of the Ancient Sith ?
And still doesn't change the fact without illusions, the mighty Sith war effort was nothing....where's that powerful Force storm when the Tetan fleet was chasing Sadow?
Irrelevant missdirection Number 2,141,920. Sadow attacked Empress Teta system and the Republics capital at once and was about to win. What does it matter how he did it ? And why is it so important that Sadow didn't use an ability that even your beloved force god Sidious feeding of the power of an entire planet couldn't control - after he destroyed quite some Tetan ships with solar flares and having fought a space battle against his arch-enemy Kressh ?
Wow! Odan only later describes it as his nightmares of the Sith empire! Where is Ragnos's death or ghost described as troubling the force? For all you know, ODan was dreaming of that moment. Unless you have exact proof Ragnos's death impacted the Force whatsoever, and ODan's nightmares of the Sith Empire PERIOD without any mention of its lord...inconclusive at best.
Yes. Odan, for some unknown reason, was able to dream about a Sith Empire which existance was unknown to him and about Ragnos who is another unknown for him. Then he sees Ragnos (whom he doesn't know) in his dream and says "the force is trembeling". So he felt the force trembeling because of what ? Either he felt Sadow and Kressh fighting which is quite dumb to assume since the fight was already stopped when he woke up. Or he's talking about Ragnos passing which is the only other thing happening.
And there's where your hypocrisy comes into play: Luke's the expert when you casually dismiss and twist everything elsE?
Luke had access to Vodo's holocron which told Kun about Sadow and Nadd. Then he did read through Sidious entire Dark Side compendium as DE pretty much makes clear (at least he did read the Book of Anger which descripes all the force techniques). Somehow it makes more sense to thrust Luke's own word on the ancient Sith than thrusting the word of a single historian (in universe writer of the NEC).
Whereas your god has done nothing except...die and get his ass kicked by a neophyte knight who just fought through an army in Ragnos's place of power. And it's nice to see you go on about hyperbole when you keep taking hearsay at gospel.
"Hearsay" placed by persons who studied Sith history, did confront DE Sidious and much better omniscient narrators when your hyperbole is contradicted by the very same person it's descriping ? Funny.
Ulic Qel-Droma managed to bring down Kun's entire war effort.
That is the total equivalent of "owning Kun". So Sidious was "owned" by Han Solo, Brand, Luke and Leia, and Vader since they destroyed the effort of his entire lifetime ?
Who 'studied Sith history for years/' did Kreia know Palpatine? No? Did Luke research Ancient Sith history? And once more: Dan Wallace's opinion> Yours. So does LFL's
Yes Luke did research Ancient Sith history. Dan Wallace's opinion which says "Sidious took the title of the most powerful Sith Lord from Ragnos" giving a comment on the ambigious word "powerful" and much more contradict all evidence displayed in the sources ? It's nice how you threat Dan Wallace's opinion as if it is canon but ignore Lucas opinion on certain things. Using double standarts much ?
I'd like to point out once again how you simply ignore the fact that a person who killed 3 Jedi Council Members with a single force attack descripes Ragnos grasp on the Dark Side as "frightening" and calls herself and the dude who is "the death of the force" and killed Nihilus "children" compared to the ancient Sith. It's nice how Luke basically puts Ragnos above the combined power of all the Jedi in his Academy and it's also nice how Sadow, who owned an amulet able to destroy Sith spirits - even when used by somebody who was hardly able to control it's power - dropped on his knees before Ragnos spirit.
/Quote/ Borbarad.
To be exact she says:
"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."
Notice the "we" here includes herself who still killed 3 Jedi Council Members with a single force attack and the Exile. The Exile defeated Nihilus in case you didn't notice and, according to Kreia, looking at him is "like staring at the death of the Force". And those kind of people are like "children" compared to the "prowess" of the Ancient Sith ?
So you mean that anyone who defeated can defeat the Exile is better than Nihilus and automatically worse than the "death of the force"?.