I concur...and what has Vulcan done with his time manipulation powers exactly? Besides of course providing some quick flashback illusions for Kitty Pryde, Havok, & Nightcrawler (who, to my knowledge, aren't the most psychic resistent people)...anyway, Thanos is an External and has greatly enhanced strength, stamina, durability, and speed...so unless Vulcan traveled back in time to defeat the what 5 members of the X-Men, then his attempts at "time manipulation" are cancelled by Thanos' super speed...its ridiculous to debate this, as Vulcan has not shown nearly enough powers, tactics, battle knowledge, etc to defeat Thanos...only some potential...
It's late and I can't sleep so that means it's time for a long post.
Cutting to the chase, Thanos should win. At this point Vulcan is little more than hype (ala the Sentry), imo. He may turn out to be omega level, herald level, or skyfather level but we just don't know for sure right now. And I think it is rather premature to claim that he can definitely defeat one of the upper echelon characters in Marvel given his dearth of feats.
Now lets get down to brass tacks so to speak. What can Vulcan do exactly? From the marvel web site:
"Vulcan has thus far demonstrated enormous energy-manipulation, psionic powers, the ability to control other's powers, super-adaptive physiology, and geokinesis. He has also acquired the abilities of his teammates Petra (geokinesis), Darwin (advanced adaptation), and Sway (time manipulation) after his revival."
Let's look at these powers one at a time and see if they could garner him a victory over the Mad Titan.
Energy-manipulation and psionic powers: Hahaha. Thanos laughs off point blank blasts from the Surfer and has taken, among other things, energy attacks from Odin IN ASGARD. What exactly has Vulcan done that would even suggest that he could match either of these two? As for psionic attacks, Nate Grey wasn't able to beat Thanos while they were trapped in a pocket dimension (thus Thanos was weakened by being cut off from his source of cosmic energy)
Time Manipulation: Now this would seem to give Vulcan a distinct advantage in this fight but this particular power does not seem to be very useful against Thanos. The Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, and (formally) Thor can/could manipulate time as well and it has not granted them an automatic win. Also Thanos has been able to reemerge almost immediately after being sucked into an artificially generated black hole which would mean he had some way of countering the slowing down of time that the gravitational field of the black hole would produce.
Geokinesis: Useless as I doubt stoning Thanos will work.
Advanced adaptation: I can't see this as being very useful as Thanos can simply turn Vulcan into a rock if he wanted to or disintegrate Vulcan with a Galactus leveling blast. What I mean is that this ability seems to be dependant on Vulcan surviving the initial attack long enough to adapt. Given the level of Thanos' attacks, this seems rather unlikely to me.
Controlling other beings powers: I believe that this power may still be too undefined to use in a debate. From what I under stand from Deadly Genesis Vulcan seems to be able to gain the mutant abilities to some degree of the individuals around him (ala using telepathy and telekinesis, presumably from Marvel Girl, against her, Wolverine, and Cyclops). We don't know if this power extends to all super-powers (ie non-mutant) or what degree of control Vulcan is granted when he gains them. Keep in mind that Thanos has enhanced himself by both technological and mystical means. While I would rule out Vulcan being able to absorb all of his powers regardless of origin and being able to have complete mastery over their use, I do not think you can assume that based on his present feats.
Originally posted by TheKahn
Advanced adaptation: I can't see this as being very useful as Thanos can simply turn Vulcan into a rock if he wanted to or disintegrate Vulcan with a Galactus leveling blast. What I mean is that this ability seems to be dependant on Vulcan surviving the initial attack long enough to adapt. Given the level of Thanos' attacks, this seems rather unlikely to me.
Vulcans advanced adaptation power is probably the only chance of him winning this fight. And it's not dependent on surviving the first attack. As shown here:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5857/stone5md.jpg
It's not only independent on a Physical Change in the enviroment. All Gabriel needs to do is desperately feel he needs to survive and he'll survive. If you look at the scan Darwin is the one that triggers his power, not the enviroment.
So Gabriel does have a chance. It might be a slim one but it's a chance.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Vulcans advanced adaptation power is probably the only chance of him winning this fight. And it's not dependent on surviving the first attack. As shown here:http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5857/stone5md.jpg
It's not only independent on a Physical Change in the enviroment. All Gabriel needs to do is desperately feel he needs to survive and he'll survive. If you look at the scan Darwin is the one that triggers his power, not the enviroment.
So Gabriel does have a chance. It might be a slim one but it's a chance.
I was talking about it being used in an defensive capacity when I said it was dependant on him surviving an initial attack. For example, if Thanos uses his matter manipulation power on Vulcan, thus instantly killing him, I doubt Vulcan will be able to adapt to being dead.
When Darwin was placed in the water, he knew that he needed to have some way to breathe to survive as the water would not kill him instantly. The same applies to him jumping off the roof as he had a few moments to realize what was happening and thus time for his body to adapt to survive. The problem is that against Thanos who can, and has, k.o. the Silver Surfer with a couple of punches and has leveled Galactus with an energy blast, I'm not sure if Vulcan would have time to realize the nature of the attack before he is dead.
I see where you're coming from, but if you look at that scan I posted, it says Darwins subconscience did it, meaning it wasn't a conscience action it may occur just like Evolution which is naturally.(Hence the codename Darwin) Which would mean that it wouldn't matter if he knew what the attack was based on. As long as he felt the need to survive his body would have adapted to suit the change in the enviroment.
It's the same with the test he took. He desperately needed to do well on the test. His subconscience made him smarter.(He didn't know he had powers). Which means if he desperately needed to survive his subconscience would pull some miracle out of a place where the sun doesn't shine, and he'll survive.
BTW Wouldn't Thanos' Matter Manipulation be Energy based?
Like I said Vulcan has a chance, but it's slim.(Because I haven't seen him fight)
The potential is there however.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I see where you're coming from, but if you look at that scan I posted, it says Darwins subconscious did it, meaning it wasn't a conscience action it may occur just like Evolution.(Hence the codename Darwin) Which would mean that it wouldn't matter if he knew what the attack was based on. As long as he felt the need to survive his body would have adapted to suit the change in the enviroment.
It's the same with the test he took. He desperately needed to do well on the test. His subconscious made him smarter. Which means if he desperately needed to survive his subconscious would pull some miracle out of a place where the sun doesn't shine, and he'll survive.
I understand, but even the subconscious mind is reliant on sensory or other type of information to determine in what way Darwin, and therefore Vulcan, needs to evolve. My concern is that given Thanos' level of firepower, I just not sure that Vulcan will survive long enough for even his subconscious mind to realize he is being attack much less what the nature of the attack is.
Now my opinion can certainly change as we see more feats from Vulcan and are able to determine the precise nature and limits of his powers but as it stands I just don't think he has been proven capable of facing off against what may be a near skyfather level character. Right now I just think it is a bit of a stretch to say surviving fire and a 30 foot fall means that he is able to take attacks that the Silver Surfer cannot.
Originally posted by TheKahn
I understand, but even the subconscious mind is reliant on sensory or other type of information to determine in what way Darwin, and therefore Vulcan, needs to evolve. My concern is that given Thanos' level of firepower, I just not sure that Vulcan will survive long enough for even his subconscious mind to realize he is being attack much less what the nature of the attack is.Now my opinion can certainly change as we see more feats from Vulcan and are able to determine the precise nature and limits of his powers but as it stands I just don't think he has been proven capable of facing off against what may be a near skyfather level character. Right now I just think it is a bit of a stretch to say surviving fire and a 30 foot fall means that he is able to take attacks that the Silver Surfer cannot.
That's true, but Darwins power is all to do with Evolution, so it's possible that his body could transcend to a state where the attack doesn't affect him.(I mean Omega mutants are said to have unlimited potential. Now just imagine what limits an Omega PLUS mutant has).
However again you're right there just isn't enough information to judge only speculate. I think in DG#6 we'll see more of Darwin, Petra and Sway so more about the nature of his powers should be revealed. And in Uncanny I think they're going up against the Shiar. If he struggles against the empire then I'll be really disappointed, however if he trounces the whole empire then it wouldn't be a suprise.
I'll wait for more feats.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's true, but Darwins power is all to do with Evolution, so it's possible that his body could transcend to a state where the attack doesn't affect him.(I mean Omega mutants are said to have unlimited potential. Now just imagine what limits an Omega PLUS mutant has).However again you're right there just isn't enough information to judge only speculate. I think in DG#6 we'll see more of Darwin, Petra and Sway so more about the nature of his powers should be revealed. And in Uncanny I think they're going up against the Shiar. If he struggles against the empire then I'll be really disappointed, however if he trounces the whole empire then it wouldn't be a suprise.
I'll wait for more feats.
Agreed, more feat are definitely required. Needless to say, though, the kid does have potential. Depending on how far they want to push his powers (especially his evolving power) Vulcan could certainly prove to be one of the most powerful mutants to ever exist.
Originally posted by TheKahn
It's late and I can't sleep so that means it's time for a long post.Cutting to the chase, Thanos should win. At this point Vulcan is little more than hype (ala the Sentry), imo. He may turn out to be omega level, herald level, or skyfather level but we just don't know for sure right now. And I think it is rather premature to claim that he can definitely defeat one of the upper echelon characters in Marvel given his dearth of feats.
Now lets get down to brass tacks so to speak. What can Vulcan do exactly? From the marvel web site:
"Vulcan has thus far demonstrated enormous energy-manipulation, psionic powers, the ability to control other's powers, super-adaptive physiology, and geokinesis. He has also acquired the abilities of his teammates Petra (geokinesis), Darwin (advanced adaptation), and Sway (time manipulation) after his revival."Let's look at these powers one at a time and see if they could garner him a victory over the Mad Titan.
Energy-manipulation and psionic powers: Hahaha. Thanos laughs off point blank blasts from the Surfer and has taken, among other things, energy attacks from Odin IN ASGARD. What exactly has Vulcan done that would even suggest that he could match either of these two? As for psionic attacks, Nate Grey wasn't able to beat Thanos while they were trapped in a pocket dimension (thus Thanos was weakened by being cut off from his source of cosmic energy)
Time Manipulation: Now this would seem to give Vulcan a distinct advantage in this fight but this particular power does not seem to be very useful against Thanos. The Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, and (formally) Thor can/could manipulate time as well and it has not granted them an automatic win. Also Thanos has been able to reemerge almost immediately after being sucked into an artificially generated black hole which would mean he had some way of countering the slowing down of time that the gravitational field of the black hole would produce.
Geokinesis: Useless as I doubt stoning Thanos will work.
Advanced adaptation: I can't see this as being very useful as Thanos can simply turn Vulcan into a rock if he wanted to or disintegrate Vulcan with a Galactus leveling blast. What I mean is that this ability seems to be dependant on Vulcan surviving the initial attack long enough to adapt. Given the level of Thanos' attacks, this seems rather unlikely to me.
Controlling other beings powers: I believe that this power may still be too undefined to use in a debate. From what I under stand from Deadly Genesis Vulcan seems to be able to gain the mutant abilities to some degree of the individuals around him (ala using telepathy and telekinesis, presumably from Marvel Girl, against her, Wolverine, and Cyclops). We don't know if this power extends to all super-powers (ie non-mutant) or what degree of control Vulcan is granted when he gains them. Keep in mind that Thanos has enhanced himself by both technological and mystical means. While I would rule out Vulcan being able to absorb all of his powers regardless of origin and being able to have complete mastery over their use, I do not think you can assume that based on his present feats.
great post.
Originally posted by TheKahn
It's late and I can't sleep so that means it's time for a long post.Cutting to the chase, Thanos should win. At this point Vulcan is little more than hype (ala the Sentry), imo. He may turn out to be omega level, herald level, or skyfather level but we just don't know for sure right now. And I think it is rather premature to claim that he can definitely defeat one of the upper echelon characters in Marvel given his dearth of feats.
Now lets get down to brass tacks so to speak. What can Vulcan do exactly? From the marvel web site:
"Vulcan has thus far demonstrated enormous energy-manipulation, psionic powers, the ability to control other's powers, super-adaptive physiology, and geokinesis. He has also acquired the abilities of his teammates Petra (geokinesis), Darwin (advanced adaptation), and Sway (time manipulation) after his revival."Let's look at these powers one at a time and see if they could garner him a victory over the Mad Titan.
Energy-manipulation and psionic powers: Hahaha. Thanos laughs off point blank blasts from the Surfer and has taken, among other things, energy attacks from Odin IN ASGARD. What exactly has Vulcan done that would even suggest that he could match either of these two? As for psionic attacks, Nate Grey wasn't able to beat Thanos while they were trapped in a pocket dimension (thus Thanos was weakened by being cut off from his source of cosmic energy)
Time Manipulation: Now this would seem to give Vulcan a distinct advantage in this fight but this particular power does not seem to be very useful against Thanos. The Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, and (formally) Thor can/could manipulate time as well and it has not granted them an automatic win. Also Thanos has been able to reemerge almost immediately after being sucked into an artificially generated black hole which would mean he had some way of countering the slowing down of time that the gravitational field of the black hole would produce.
Geokinesis: Useless as I doubt stoning Thanos will work.
Advanced adaptation: I can't see this as being very useful as Thanos can simply turn Vulcan into a rock if he wanted to or disintegrate Vulcan with a Galactus leveling blast. What I mean is that this ability seems to be dependant on Vulcan surviving the initial attack long enough to adapt. Given the level of Thanos' attacks, this seems rather unlikely to me.
Controlling other beings powers: I believe that this power may still be too undefined to use in a debate. From what I under stand from Deadly Genesis Vulcan seems to be able to gain the mutant abilities to some degree of the individuals around him (ala using telepathy and telekinesis, presumably from Marvel Girl, against her, Wolverine, and Cyclops). We don't know if this power extends to all super-powers (ie non-mutant) or what degree of control Vulcan is granted when he gains them. Keep in mind that Thanos has enhanced himself by both technological and mystical means. While I would rule out Vulcan being able to absorb all of his powers regardless of origin and being able to have complete mastery over their use, I do not think you can assume that based on his present feats.
oh yeah thats the stuff droolio
Originally posted by TheKahn
is it worth a gif... 😖hifty:
it is.
