He didn't just drop alot of balls, he dropped the most balls out of every reciever in the league, and alot of what he dropped would have been game winning catches. You add that, and his cancerous attitude, and that list of teams that will pick him up is a short one, same thing with Moss. But I will say you can't blame Moss for producing as well as TO last year because TO had a way better offense.
Originally posted by wuTa
He didn't just drop alot of balls, he dropped the most balls out of every reciever in the league, and alot of what he dropped would have been game winning catches. You add that, and his cancerous attitude, and that list of teams that will pick him up is a short one, same thing with Moss. But I will say you can't blame Moss for producing as well as TO last year because TO had a way better offense.
It still doesnt matter. They're a few times where if he didnt catch that TD, the Cowboys wouldnt of won the game.
It all works out but the fact remains is that TO is still a productive reciever while Moss, even with a bad offensive line isnt.
I give TO credit, he still produces. Moss, once he doesnt want to play, he doesnt.
Well according to TO he doesn't want to play either half the games either, and there were more times that he dropped potential GW balls, than he caught. Dallas also isn't paying him 25 mill to drop those balls, or be a complete deuchebag in the lockeroom. Randy Moss and TO are pretty much the same players, except Randy is maybe a little less egotistical. TO is more productive beause he has a better offense. Give Randy a descent QB, a running game, Wittman, Glenn and you'll see him do what TO did, put TO on the Raiders with no QB, no running game, and no 2nd or 3rd options for recievers and see how well he produces.
Originally posted by wuTa
Well according to TO he doesn't want to play either half the games either, and there were more times that he dropped potential GW balls, than he caught. Dallas also isn't paying him 25 mill to drop those balls, or be a complete deuchebag in the lockeroom. Randy Moss and TO are pretty much the same players, except Randy is maybe a little less egotistical. TO is more productive beause he has a better offense. Give Randy a descent QB, a running game, Wittman, Glenn and you'll see him do what TO did, put TO on the Raiders with no QB, no running game, and no 2nd or 3rd options for recievers and see how well he produces.
T.O. isn't being a douche bag in the locker room, where have you heard this? Quit making shit up to better your argument.
And Dallas is paying him 25 million to lead all wide receivers in touchdowns, or did that fact just slip through your mind just because he had 17 drops this season. OMGOSH NO WAYYYYY!!!
T.O. is more productive because he has a better offense? Isn't that the same thing people were saying about Moss when he was playing for the Vikings and T.O. was playing for the 49ers? Except T.O was making the pro bowl every year with a crap offense and crappy gay QB.
Put T.O. on the Raiders and the offense will be more productive, He doesn't quit on balls...ever and he runs over the middle frequently.
And lets not forget the whole season T.O. was battling with that broken finger.
Moss less egotistical than TO?
What?
TO is an dick, but he tries, and yeah, he says he doesnt, but the stats prove that he does. I watched every game this year that he played in outside of the Lions game, and every game he tries to make plays.
He blocks, he goes down the middle, he doesnt quit on balls. Moss doesnt do any of that except quitting on balls.
Randy Moss does not compare himself to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods like TO does. The stats are overrated. We've already established he was on a more talented team so his stats are obviously going to be better, but his attitude and dop balls confirm that he isn't lying about not trying in games, either that he's just full of shit, and has lost a step so he's reaching for excuses. Granted, I haven't seen as many Raider games as I did Cowboy games last year, but the games I did see, Moss blocked, went down the middle, and didn't quit on balls. But it's kind of hard for him to produce when he is the only weapon on offense, and Defenses are squarely locked on him w/o having to worry about the Raiders running the ball, or having to worry about a viable second, or 3rd option like TO has in Dallas.
Originally posted by wuTa
Randy Moss does not compare himself to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods like TO does. The stats are overrated. We've already established he was on a more talented team so his stats are obviously going to be better, but his attitude and dop balls confirm that he isn't lying about not trying in games, either that he's just full of shit, and has lost a step so he's reaching for excuses. Granted, I haven't seen as many Raider games as I did Cowboy games last year, but the games I did see, Moss blocked, went down the middle, and didn't quit on balls. But it's kind of hard for him to produce when he is the only weapon on offense, and Defenses are squarely locked on him w/o having to worry about the Raiders running the ball, or having to worry about a viable second, or 3rd option like TO has in Dallas.
As I said before this is the same thing that was happening in San Fran but there is a distinct difference. Owens put up numbers,made pro bowls and overall made his team better. Moss is not doing any of those, he is a quitter, hell wasn't it him who walked off the field before the game was over? Now he is quitting on balls, he still isn't running over the middle and his numbers stink like the inside of a bears ass. And you can't blame all that on the Raiders offense because when balls do come his way, you can clearly see he is not really trying to catch them AND he quits on routes.
Lol I have never heard T.O. compare himself to Jordan or Tiger Woods but that does sound like something he would say with the cameras in front of him. Was he comparing like he is the best of his sport at his position? If so then yeah I wouldn't fault him for saying that, after all he is arguably the best WR in the league. He obviously is the most fit.
His stats are overrated? Na I'm sorry but that is bull shit. If you just going to discredit his touchdowns,catches and yards like that then you have to do the same for his drops.
Originally posted by wuTa
Randy Moss does not compare himself to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods like TO does. The stats are overrated. We've already established he was on a more talented team so his stats are obviously going to be better, but his attitude and dop balls confirm that he isn't lying about not trying in games, either that he's just full of shit, and has lost a step so he's reaching for excuses. Granted, I haven't seen as many Raider games as I did Cowboy games last year, but the games I did see, Moss blocked, went down the middle, and didn't quit on balls. But it's kind of hard for him to produce when he is the only weapon on offense, and Defenses are squarely locked on him w/o having to worry about the Raiders running the ball, or having to worry about a viable second, or 3rd option like TO has in Dallas.
So he is a dick. Who really cares about that. He produces, thats all that matters. Are you going to tell me that he doesnt produce?
Couldnt you say that being on a team that has 6 options in the offense that are good take away his productivity. Let's say TO was on the Raiders, I would personally think he's stats would be around the same. He would be the only option, and since he has proven that he can play still, (stats is the only way of proving he can still play, and he has the stats), he would be just as effective on the Raiders.
You cant really go around and say, "oh this guy sucks and he's stats dont mean shit because he is on the best team," because its not true. Being good is all about the player. You just dont get the most recieving TD's in the league by just being on a good team. Heck, why dont we say LT is only good because of the O-line and Gates.
Originally posted by Smasandian
So he is a dick. Who really cares about that. He produces, thats all that matters. Are you going to tell me that he doesnt produce?Couldnt you say that being on a team that has 6 options in the offense that are good take away his productivity. Let's say TO was on the Raiders, I would personally think he's stats would be around the same. He would be the only option, and since he has proven that he can play still, (stats is the only way of proving he can still play, and he has the stats), he would be just as effective on the Raiders.
You cant really go around and say, "oh this guy sucks and he's stats dont mean shit because he is on the best team," because its not true. Being good is all about the player. You just dont get the most recieving TD's in the league by just being on a good team. Heck, why dont we say LT is only good because of the O-line and Gates.
Let's not put words in my mouth. I didn't say stats don't mean shit, I said there overrated. This year in the playoffs, statistically Grossman is a better QB than Manning, now are you going to tell me you're going to take Grossman over Manning?
Are you serious about taking away his productivity when a QB has more options, Jerry Rice, or Micheal Irivn stats didn't suffer from having more options on offense. How is having a defense spend more stradegy and time on the offense as a whole, than just one player going to hurt TO? With more options, that allows things to open up more for recievers like TO. With recievers like Glenn and Campbell, TO won't be facing as many double teams which allows him for more oppurtinity, thus most TDs in league, catches, ect. Now how many second or 3rd options to the Raiders have, try none, which means Moss gets double coverage all game, not to mention he has an unproven QB trying to get him the ball, and the worst O-line in the NFL trying to protect that QB, stats don't tell you shit about that kind of thing now do they, thus my point about them being overrated.
I never said TO sucks, again, don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying he isn't nearly the reciever he use to be, and he is on the same level as Randy Moss who is also a shell of his former self. LT is a great player, his O-line, and Gates don't make him great, but they do allow him with more oppurinites to break records, and give the team a chance to win more games. Barry Sanders was a great running back as well, but he never had any second, or 3rd options so his oppurinities were limited, as well as his chance at winning a Super Bowl.
Originally posted by wuTaAre you serious about taking away his productivity when a QB has more options, Jerry Rice, or Micheal Irivn stats didn't suffer from having more options on offense. How is having a defense spend more stradegy and time on the offense as a whole, than just one player going to hurt TO? With more options, that allows things to open up more for recievers like TO. With recievers like Glenn and Campbell, TO won't be facing as many double teams which allows him for more oppurtinity, thus most TDs in league, catches, ect. Now how many second or 3rd options to the Raiders have, try none, which means Moss gets double coverage all game, not to mention he has an unproven QB trying to get him the ball, and the worst O-line in the NFL trying to protect that QB, stats don't tell you shit about that kind of thing now do they, thus my point about them being overrated.
I never said TO sucks, again, don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying he isn't nearly the reciever he use to be, and he is on the same level as Randy Moss who is also a shell of his former self.
You can't use having more options on a team as an excuse. T.O. was on the 49ers with NO options and a ***** suck ass QB and he still put up numbers. Why can't you understand this? And he is on another level than Moss. And if stats are overrated than so are his drops.
I guess if stats are overrated then there is really no way of telling who is better anymore. Why is Manning better than Grossman? You said it yourself, you think manning is better than Grossman. Do stats all of a sudden come into play when it benefits you and your argument? Manning has way more options than Grossman, does this mean Grossman is better because Manning has more receivers to throw too?
If you are going to say stats are overrated then don't contradict yourself in the same post.
If Moss were putting up numbers anywhere near Owens then your argument would be just a little bit valid.
But stats are overrated and cannot be used in the argument of Moss versus T.O. but can be used in any other situation................ 😆 😆 😆 😆
............ 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
😕
Originally posted by wuTa
Let's not put words in my mouth. I didn't say stats don't mean shit, I said there overrated. This year in the playoffs, statistically Grossman is a better QB than Manning, now are you going to tell me you're going to take Grossman over Manning?Are you serious about taking away his productivity when a QB has more options, Jerry Rice, or Micheal Irivn stats didn't suffer from having more options on offense. How is having a defense spend more stradegy and time on the offense as a whole, than just one player going to hurt TO? With more options, that allows things to open up more for recievers like TO. With recievers like Glenn and Campbell, TO won't be facing as many double teams which allows him for more oppurtinity, thus most TDs in league, catches, ect. Now how many second or 3rd options to the Raiders have, try none, which means Moss gets double coverage all game, not to mention he has an unproven QB trying to get him the ball, and the worst O-line in the NFL trying to protect that QB, stats don't tell you shit about that kind of thing now do they, thus my point about them being overrated.
I never said TO sucks, again, don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying he isn't nearly the reciever he use to be, and he is on the same level as Randy Moss who is also a shell of his former self. LT is a great player, his O-line, and Gates don't make him great, but they do allow him with more oppurinites to break records, and give the team a chance to win more games. Barry Sanders was a great running back as well, but he never had any second, or 3rd options so his oppurinities were limited, as well as his chance at winning a Super Bowl.
Playoffs statistics are completly different considering their is only a total amount of 4 games played, but over a course of a season, stats are important.
Your completely wrong. Everybody who knows anything about the Dallas Cowboys knows that TO got the majority of double coverages leaving Crayton, Whitten, Jones, Barber and Glenn with single coverage. Also, considering TO was non existent in the first 6 games due to Bledsoe throwing to Glenn alot more shows that he is still incredibly productive.
Yeah, Oakland's oline was crap but how come Moss, if he is the same league as TO, how come he wasnt the leading reciever on the team? Moss did miss 3 games but still, if your going to be compared to TO during this season you better be alot better than Curry. But that fact remains, even if the raiders didnt have alot options, why didnt Moss get more catches than 42, unless your going to say that the offense sucked. But, if the guy is that good, shouldnt he make the offense a tad better than what it was, or are you telling me that WR's dont matter to the offense at all?
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
You can't use having more options on a team as an excuse. T.O. was on the 49ers with NO options and a ***** suck ass QB and he still put up numbers. Why can't you understand this? And he is on another level than Moss. And if stats are overrated than so are his drops.
I guess if stats are overrated then there is really no way of telling who is better anymore. Why is Manning better than Grossman? You said it yourself, you think manning is better than Grossman. Do stats all of a sudden come into play when it benefits you and your argument? Manning has way more options than Grossman, does this mean Grossman is better because Manning has more receivers to throw too?If you are going to say stats are overrated then don't contradict yourself in the same post.
If Moss were putting up numbers anywhere near Owens then your argument would be just a little bit valid.
But stats are overrated and cannot be used in the argument of Moss versus T.O. but can be used in any other situation................ 😆 😆 😆 😆
............ 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
😕
Which suckass QB would that be, hall of famer Steve Young, or 3 time pro bowler Jeff Garcia, not to mention that TO was coming into, and was in his prime as a 49er, now we all know that TO left S.F. because he had a below average QB, which made his stats suffer(not alot thought because he was in his prime), which made him his team lose alot, which cost him money. Thats thesame scenario Moss has in Oakland except Moss is past his prime so his play is going to suffer more than TOs 49er days. If you didn't have such a hardon for TO, and weren't so biased towards him than anything you say at all might be valid.
Did I use stats to say Manning was better than Grossman, we both know I didn't so there couldn't have been a contradicion. Anyone who watches football knows Manning is better by his skill level, leadership and work ethic alone. Look at that, not one stat to prove that either.
You would have to be a fuking moron to say that GW passes are overrated. Only a TO fan could be that ignorant, that comment seriously made me laugh, keep them coming though. I enjoy the entertainment.
Originally posted by wuTa
Which suckass QB would that be, hall of famer Steve Young, or 3 time pro bowler Jeff Garcia, not to mention that TO was coming into, and was in his prime as a 49er, now we all know that TO left S.F. because he had a below average QB, which made his stats suffer(not alot thought because he was in his prime), which made him his team lose alot, which cost him money. Thats thesame scenario Moss has in Oakland except Moss is past his prime so his play is going to suffer more than TOs 49er days. If you didn't have such a hardon for TO, and weren't so biased towards him than anything you say at all might be valid.Did I use stats to say Manning was better than Grossman, we both know I didn't so there couldn't have been a contradicion. Anyone who watches football knows Manning is better by his skill level, leadership and work ethic alone. Look at that, not one stat to prove that either.
You would have to be a fuking moron to say that GW passes are overrated. Only a TO fan could be that ignorant, that comment seriously made me laugh, keep them coming though. I enjoy the entertainment.
I am still laughing my ass off at your post prior to this one, which this one didn't give me as much laughs as the one before.
So how do you go about in determining who is better? In Manning over Grossman you say it is because of his work ethic,skill level and leadership. Two of those have nothing to do with being the better player. You can be better than someone and not be a good leader and you can be better than someone and not have a good work ethic. Just say it, the reason Manning is better than Grossman is because of his stats. The only reason you aren't admitting to it because you know it will directly contradict what you have been saying about Moss and T.O.
This has nothing to do with my bias with T.O. if that is the case it is fanboy vs stupid shit ignorant troll.
Originally posted by Smasandian
Playoffs statistics are completly different considering their is only a total amount of 4 games played, but over a course of a season, stats are important.Your completely wrong. Everybody who knows anything about the Dallas Cowboys knows that TO got the majority of double coverages leaving Crayton, Whitten, Jones, Barber and Glenn with single coverage. Also, considering TO was non existent in the first 6 games due to Bledsoe throwing to Glenn alot more shows that he is still incredibly productive.
Yeah, Oakland's oline was crap but how come Moss, if he is the same league as TO, how come he wasnt the leading reciever on the team? Moss did miss 3 games but still, if your going to be compared to TO during this season you better be alot better than Curry. But that fact remains, even if the raiders didnt have alot options, why didnt Moss get more catches than 42, unless your going to say that the offense sucked. But, if the guy is that good, shouldnt he make the offense a tad better than what it was, or are you telling me that WR's dont matter to the offense at all?
You would think that if stats were so important than they would mean more during the postseason when its one and done. You can go ahead, and say there important, but that doesn't changed that they are overrated.
Everytime TO seen a double coverage, that allowed for Romo to make a play to Whitten, Crayton, Jones, or whoever, and when Romo made those plays to those receivers/RBs than defenses would stop doubling on TO and allow TO more oppurtinties against single coverage, espicially in the red zone, giving him more oppuritinies to score. When Bledsoe was QBing he didn't use all of Dallas weapons, and Owens didn't put up as good as numbers as when Bledsoe was QBing because Romo opened the offense, which allowed for more oppurinities, and that includes Owens.
Look, unless Moss and TO are going to get traded for one another than there is no way we're going to settle this arguement, we all know Moss's repuation, thow that in with a bad team, and you're not going to see good results. I already said Moss is a man of his former self, but so's Owens, and if you put Owens on that Oakland team with a QB that doesn't know how to even play in the NFL, with an O-line who couldn't even protect that QB, and an offensive cooridaniter who hasn't coached in like 8 years, than TO would have put just as much effort into that team as Moss did, in fact, I doubt he wouldn't even play the last games of the season because he would have bailed on that team like he did with S.F and Philly.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
I am still laughing my ass off at your post prior to this one, which this one didn't give me as much laughs as the one before.So how do you go about in determining who is better? In Manning over Grossman you say it is because of his work ethic skill level and leadership. Two of those have nothing to do with being the better player. You can be better than someone and not be a good leader and you can be better than someone and not have a good work ethic. Just say it, the reason Manning is better than Grossman is because of his stats. The only reason you aren't admitting to it because you know it will directly contradict what you have been saying about Moss and T.O.
This has nothing to do with my bias with T.O. if that is the case it is fanboy vs stupid shit ignorant troll.
So you're facing off against yourself? I love it when people talk shit over the net knowing there safety is intact behind a desk.
If Manning is a better player strictly off his stats, than I guess he is better than Brady, even though Brady has beat him more, and has 3 more rings than Manning as of right now. or I guess Marino is better than Montana, shit, Marino must be the greatest QB ever to walk the field because of his stats.. Statistically speaking, he blows Brady or Montana out of the water, Marino may have been more talented than Montana, or Brady , but Montana’s work ethic and leadership is what made them a champion, same thing with Brady and since there champions, a lot of people would say that makes them a better player than Marino, which further proves you still don’t know shit on anything . Yea, I could throw stats out there to further prove my point that Manning is better than Grossman, but unlike you’re dumbass, I don’t need to rely on overrated statistics to get my point across., which was my whole point in the 1st place, not that stats don‘t have any meaning, but that there overrated, I don‘t think you actually caught onto that Special Ed . And don’t say this isn’t about you being a fan boy, if this argument wasn’t about TO than you wouldn’t have even gotten involved, you never gotten involved in any of my disputes that weren’t TO related , but when someone dogs you’re b/f you’re right there to defend your man, it’s sweet.
Time for a few stats no one thinks is important, yet could be the only thing people might be talking about once it's over...penalties.
Chicago is 27th in penalties, Indianapolis is 7th. Chicago committed 26 more penalties during the regular season than the Colts for 205 additional yards.
Indianapolis 86 penalties, 718 yards.....8.4 yards per penalty.
Chicago 112 penalties, 923 yards....8.2 yards per penalty.
Also, the Referee is veteran Bill Leavy, who traditionally has been at the top of the list regarding high scoring games. For example, he was #1 in 2002 with an 11-4 record for people taking the Over.
Originally posted by wuTa
You would think that if stats were so important than they would mean more during the postseason when its one and done. You can go ahead, and say there important, but that doesn't changed that they are overrated.Everytime TO seen a double coverage, that allowed for Romo to make a play to Whitten, Crayton, Jones, or whoever, and when Romo made those plays to those receivers/RBs than defenses would stop doubling on TO and allow TO more oppurtinties against single coverage, espicially in the red zone, giving him more oppuritinies to score. When Bledsoe was QBing he didn't use all of Dallas weapons, and Owens didn't put up as good as numbers as when Bledsoe was QBing because Romo opened the offense, which allowed for more oppurinities, and that includes Owens.
Look, unless Moss and TO are going to get traded for one another than there is no way we're going to settle this arguement, we all know Moss's repuation, thow that in with a bad team, and you're not going to see good results. I already said Moss is a man of his former self, but so's Owens, and if you put Owens on that Oakland team with a QB that doesn't know how to even play in the NFL, with an O-line who couldn't even protect that QB, and an offensive cooridaniter who hasn't coached in like 8 years, than TO would have put just as much effort into that team as Moss did, in fact, I doubt he wouldn't even play the last games of the season because he would have bailed on that team like he did with S.F and Philly.
Your right, nonbody can settle this until next season.
But when he played for the Cowboys, every team doubled him. All the time.
So anyways, prediction time. Who will win? Who will get MVP? And will Prince show his netherregions to everybody and then kick everybody's ass in b-ball and THEN serve them pancakes? BAMMMMM
So, the Colts will win 35-24, and Manning for MVP (or Harrison). And yes, the Purple Rain machine will defintily do all those things...denny's style