Darth Bandon vs. Asaaj Ventress

Started by Antediluvian3 pages
Originally posted by zephiel7
1. Have you not read the quote. It explains that Bandon was highly regarded for his saber skills, felling "many Jedi." Even if he fell to Revan, read my post. Being defeated by Revan is no shame to his dark Jedi skills. Assajj would probably have been WTFpwned. Revan had companions too.

Revan canonically may or may not have had companions. You have no proof. I didn't have my friends with me and I kicked the crap out of Bandon and his two goons.

Asajj was one of the best of her time and she also perfected her Lightsaber form. She survived fights with the greatest (Mace, Dooku, Anakin) and she was also a very fast and powerful fallen Jedi.

Bandon? He pushed a guard across the room, brought two friends to defeat Revan and got smashed. That simple. He has no accomplishments and Asajj looks to have more available surface training than Bandon.

BTW, Asajj pwned several Jedi, including two Masters.

2. As for Bandon's intelligence, again if it serves him well in battle, thats another thing he has going over Assajj. It relates to his combat abilities, which gives him an advantage over Assajj who is simply "ME ANGRY ME SMASH"

I said IF he had it.

Asajj is a born and raised anger and raw power machine, ready to fight and destroy. She was brought up fighting and being a Jedi. It isn't just like that.

Does it say anything about tactical ability or chosen due to his intelligence and impressive strategies? Nope it doesn't, an assumption on your part that has nill proof backing it up.

You tell me ONCE where it says in the Databank that Bandon was chosen because of his Combat skills.

I'll be waiting.

Look! A double negative! You want proof when proof has not been shown on the opposing party! Yay for Logical Fallacy! Woohoo!

You have no proof yourself.

Does it say anything about him being chosen for his Combat abilities?

I smell hypocrisy . . . AGAIN!

So we know that Revan didn't just leap in their and comence with the PWNage. Agents is plural; he had help. Again my point backed up while you continue with assumptions that remain unproven. Prove to me that Revan wiped the floor with Bandon on his own, whilst he was memory wiped.

Okay.

On my game, Revan walks up to Bandon and his two thugs and smashes them both alone.

There's my proof.

Revan killing Bandon with his party isn't canon. The whole game is expendable.

Also according to my memory, Bandon only had TWO people with him. Again, hyperbole on your part in attempt to dismiss Bandon's abilities.

Oh sorry . . . He needed two helpers to take down Revan.

Wait . . . Did he take down Revan?

DIDN'T

THINK

SO!

Originally posted by Faunus
1) And Asajj has been shown on panel ''felling many Jedi.''

We have this, this, this, this, this, and some notable Force mastery, among other things. When you can show me evidence of Bandon unleashing the ownage like this, come back.

2) Intelligence? What intelligence? We've seen him fight Trask, then get owned by Revan. If he'd had such admirable mental aptitude, he'd have brought a few dozen Dark Jedi as opposed to. . . two.

And ''me angry me smash''? Your understanding and knowledge base regarding Asajj is truly pathetic.

Plural, yeah, but tell me how much help he had. Revan may have only had Carth with him. Bandon, at the very least, had two renegade Jedi at his side. And he still lost to a mind-wiped, amnesiac Revan.

Hyperbole? Hyperbole? You can't seriously be attempting to accuse someone else of downplaying a character's abilities when your argument against Asajj was ''me angry me smash.''

Ownage.

Asajj's exact count is 19, I believe.

You got this from where?

Dark Rendevous. Asajj says it herself

Remember to count Jai and Maks.

Note that there's still a year or two between DR and her supposed ''fall'' at Boz Pity: plenty of time for her later victories.

19 is pretty impressive if you ask me.

It's 19 with Jai and Maks...and not that much time, about a year...and we know what Ventress was up to practically the entire time

hold on who all was in dooku's circle of dark jedi besides master vos and asajj and all them

A lot of Dark Jedi

haha


Revan canonically may or may not have had companions. You have no proof. I didn't have my friends with me and I kicked the crap out of Bandon and his two goons.

Where is the proof? Proof that he was alone when he fought Assajj. I have at least provided the proof, you are continuing to go with unsupported assumptions.


Asajj was one of the best of her time and she also perfected her Lightsaber form. She survived fights with the greatest (Mace, Dooku, Anakin) and she was also a very fast and powerful fallen Jedi.

Um, as I recall, in Obsession she was able to hold of Anakin and Obi wan, and that was solely because Obi wasn't even putting his all into the fight. Remember, Obi wan wanted to save Assajj, it was Anakin who was giving it everything he had.


Bandon? He pushed a guard across the room, brought two friends to defeat Revan and got smashed. That simple. He has no accomplishments and Asajj looks to have more available surface training than Bandon.

The description by Bioware places Bandon as a dark Jedi who felled many Jedi. And where is this BS you snapped out of thin air supporting that Assajj received more training? Bandon was trained by Malak himself, considered apprentice to the dark lord. Malak sent Bandon only on THE most dangerous missions, one of which included subduing his old master! Assajj was an expendable tool that Dooku shitted into the field. If this is going to degenerate into feat wars, then I might as well state that Ragnos is a nobody who could do diddly squat because he has never defeated "Jedi masters."

Oh and typical that you put in Bandon's defeat against Revan. Then let me guess, everybody who has ever died against a powerful combatant must be a weakling? See, your entire argument for Bandon's weakness is completely and utterly fallacy ridden.


BTW, Asajj pwned several Jedi, including two Masters.

And because Bandon was never given direct orders by Malak to kill the Jedi Masters (who were very nearly untraceable at the time), you are automatically putting Assajj over him? Ridiculous.

I said IF he had it.

We are not working with IF's. Stop trying to steer the debate into wild goose chases where "ifs" matter. Bandon was chosen by Malak due to his abilitiy in the force. I still await proof for your ridiculous claim, that the brutish and headstrong Malak would choose his apprentice based on his strategic abilities. Malak had admirals to worry about strategy. My proof is later down. Keep reading.

Asajj is a born and raised anger and raw power machine, ready to fight and destroy. She was brought up fighting and being a Jedi. It isn't just like that.

And you dismiss Bandon as Assaj's inferior because he was defeated by Revan? He was chosen by the Malak because of his ability to fight. It is explained in the quote that I brought out earlier in my previous post. It is also stated later down.

You tell me ONCE where it says in the Databank that Bandon was chosen because of his Combat skills.

I'll be waiting.

Look! A double negative! You want proof when proof has not been shown on the opposing party! Yay for Logical Fallacy! Woohoo!

You have no proof yourself.

Does it say anything about him being chosen for his Combat abilities?

I smell hypocrisy . . . AGAIN!

Whatever. All bluster and no bite. Way to make a point.

I showed you before and highlighted the passage.

"His great strength in the Force , his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself"

Dont try and deconstruct the meaning to suit what you want. Great strength in the force is just what it means. He was adept at using the force, and he sought power with it. This was to such an extent, that over an ORDER full of Sith, Malak chose Bandon as his own second hand man.

Does it say anything about tactical abilities. NO. Not at all. Keep calling me a hypocrite if it makes you happy. Hypocrite.

Okay.

On my game, Revan walks up to Bandon and his two thugs and smashes them both alone.

There's my proof.

Revan killing Bandon with his party isn't canon. The whole game is expendable.

Oh great. I mean I am impressed by your willingness to offer proof to back up your assumptions.

I mean everything that "Antediluvian" does must be official Canon. I offered reliable information from databank while you continue to operate on assumptions. I will be waiting.

I've gotta say that I'm going with Razielm and Zephiel7 on this. They have made a very strong argument for Bandon which has been very convincing.

I didn't really do anything . . .

Originally posted by Razielim
I didn't really do anything . . .

Be we love you anyway... 😛

Originally posted by zephiel7
Where is the proof? Proof that he was alone when he fought Assajj. I have at least provided the proof, you are continuing to go with unsupported assumptions.

Asajj. . . ?

Um, as I recall, in Obsession she was able to hold of Anakin and Obi wan, and that was solely because Obi wasn't even putting his all into the fight. Remember, Obi wan wanted to save Assajj, it was Anakin who was giving it everything he had.

And this is bad for Asajj, how? I don't understand the purpose of this line in your argument.

[The description by Bioware places Bandon as a dark Jedi who felled many Jedi. And where is this BS you snapped out of thin air supporting that Assajj received more training? Bandon was trained by Malak himself, considered apprentice to the dark lord. Malak sent Bandon only on THE most dangerous missions, one of which included subduing his old master! Assajj was an expendable tool that Dooku shitted into the field.[QUOTE]

Malak sent Bandon to challenge Revan, yes, but he knew he wouldn't stop him. Apparently, Revan blazes through everything the Star Forge has to offer, and Malak knew he would, hence the reason he said that the Forge battle droids wouldn't be able to bring him down: only slow him.

And Dooku? Dooku considered everyone potentially expendable, save for his master. Yet he still trusted Asajj with some important tasks, such as hunting down Anakin Skywalker, leading the bio-weapon project, capturing and interrogating Kenobi (among at least five other encounters as well), and plotting to turn renegade Jedi against Master Windu. In fact, Dooku trusted in Ventress enough to allow her the opportunity to face off against said Jedi in a duel, so I can imagine he actually held her abilities in high regard.

[QUOTE]See, your entire argument for Bandon's weakness is completely and utterly fallacy ridden.

And you actually have neither an argument for Bandon nor an argument against Asajj.

We are not working with IF's. Stop trying to steer the debate into wild goose chases where "ifs" matter. Bandon was chosen by Malak due to his abilitiy in the force.

[sarcasm]And Asajj was chosen by Dooku for her baldness.[/sarcasm]

And you dismiss Bandon as Assaj's inferior because he was defeated by Revan? He was chosen by the Malak because of his ability to fight. It is explained in the quote that I brought out earlier in my previous post. It is also stated later down.
[sarcasm]And Asajj was chosen by Dooku for her baldness.[/sarcasm]

Lord Bandon

Originally posted by zephiel7
Where is the proof? Proof that he was alone when he fought Assajj. I have at least provided the proof, you are continuing to go with unsupported assumptions.

Um . . . Revan fought Asajj? Did he use a Time Machine?

You're a hypocritical moron, Zephiel. Revan having his friends with him when he defeated Bandon IS NOT CANON.

Learn it, accept it, and deal with it.

Um, as I recall, in Obsession she was able to hold of Anakin and Obi wan, and that was solely because Obi wasn't even putting his all into the fight. Remember, Obi wan wanted to save Assajj, it was Anakin who was giving it everything he had.

Yeah, and Anakin got outmaneuvered right away. He only got a surprise attack on her when she was on the ground and had been shot.

The description by Bioware places Bandon as a dark Jedi who felled many Jedi. And where is this BS you snapped out of thin air supporting that Assajj received more training? Bandon was trained by Malak himself, considered apprentice to the dark lord. Malak sent Bandon only on THE most dangerous missions, one of which included subduing his old master! Assajj was an expendable tool that Dooku shitted into the field. If this is going to degenerate into feat wars, then I might as well state that Ragnos is a nobody who could do diddly squat because he has never defeated "Jedi masters."

You make so sense . . . and that works in my favor here.

Asajj was chosen by Dooku himself. And you don't think Bandon was an expendable tool? Do you think if Bandon had failed and came back alive Malak would have spared him? He was chosen because of his power and he failed his dangerous mission.

Asajj has tooled at least nineteen Jedi, Zephiel. Bandons number could be five or ten . . . Hell, you don't know if it's more or less. You're just throwing random punches and hoping they'll land.

Not to mention Bandon was defeated by a weak and amnesiac Revan. And he kicked the crap out of his goons.

Oh and typical that you put in Bandon's defeat against Revan. Then let me guess, everybody who has ever died against a powerful combatant must be a weakling? See, your entire argument for Bandon's weakness is completely and utterly fallacy ridden.

There's nothing fallible here, you pseudo intellect. Bandon still wasn't good enough and got smashed. Who did Bandon defeat? What did he do that we saw that was important? Oh. All you got is a sentence saying "Bandon felled many Jedi."

And you say my argument is fallacy?

L-O-L!

And because Bandon was never given direct orders by Malak to kill the Jedi Masters (who were very nearly untraceable at the time), you are automatically putting Assajj over him? Ridiculous.

Untraceable? Bandon had found Revan. I'm sure he just happened to be waiting outside for him with two Dark Jedi NOT KNOWING where he was.

We are not working with IF's. Stop trying to steer the debate into wild goose chases where "ifs" matter. Bandon was chosen by Malak due to his abilitiy in the force. I still await proof for your ridiculous claim, that the brutish and headstrong Malak would choose his apprentice based on his strategic abilities. Malak had admirals to worry about strategy. My proof is later down. Keep reading.

His COMBAT strategics, moron! You think Strategics are just something admirals use? Are you truly that dense and stupid?

I guess in order to use tactics and strategics when defeating my opponents or using a Lightsaber, I have to be an Admiral now, right?

WRONG!

Malak obviously chose the wrong guy. Bandon got beat down. You think just because Malak chose him he is automatically some uber Dark Jedi? Yeah . . . RIGHT!

Malak was a moron who failed perpetually at stopping the group and he died against a memory-wiped Revan when Malak had Republic Soldiers' energy at his disposal. Malak had f*cked up several times. Bandon was just another f*ck up.

And you dismiss Bandon as Assaj's inferior because he was defeated by Revan? He was chosen by the Malak because of his ability to fight. It is explained in the quote that I brought out earlier in my previous post. It is also stated later down.

^ You've said that already.

Read above. I've already countered that crap.

Whatever. All bluster and no bite. Way to make a point.

I showed you before and highlighted the passage.

Blah, Blah, Blah . . . Pointless insults.

Moving on:

Dont try and deconstruct the meaning to suit what you want. Great strength in the force is just what it means. He was adept at using the force, and he sought power with it. This was to such an extent, that over an ORDER full of Sith, Malak chose Bandon as his own second hand man.

You cannot use that as evidence of his defeat against Asajj anymore.

"He was chosen, tho!11"

^ Is that your proof of Bandon defeating Asajj? Fine, Asajj was chosen by Dooku. Oh, and Asajj didn't fail the first mission she was given like Bandon did. She had gone up against powerful Jedi and prevailed. Near the end, she was shot by surprise, not killed because a lack of skill.

Does it say anything about tactical abilities. NO. Not at all. Keep calling me a hypocrite if it makes you happy. Hypocrite.

^ Pointless post. Moving on:

Oh great. I mean I am impressed by your willingness to offer proof to back up your assumptions.

I mean everything that "Antediluvian" does must be official Canon. I offered reliable information from databank while you continue to operate on assumptions. I will be waiting.

Hypocrisy and bullshit together equals mayhem on your part, Zephiel.

Here's some of Asajj's databank, which looks much longer and more impressive than Bandons. She was chosen too, Except she's gone up against the best and has survived. She's killed Politicians, Jedi, Warlords, Gladiators and other Force users:

"One of the most deadly and tragic opponents to emerge from the battlefields of the Clone Wars was Asajj Ventress."

"As a result, she had the skills of the Jedi combined with a raw, unfocused talent in the Force. She never controlled her instinctual fury"

"Asajj's rage fueled her power, and she clawed her way up to a position of authority on the lawless world of Rattatak. She conquered and imprisoned most of the remaining warlords, including Osika Kirske, whom she would eventually kill. She could best any of the monstrous combatants in the gladiatorial games held regularly on the world."

"Ventress' raw talent and fierce determination impressed Dooku. The charismatic leader of the Confederacy was able to recruit the young warrior"

"Her raw talents and bottomless well of anger and pain bolstered her dark side abilities. Giving into her rage granted her further powers."