Originally posted by Nephthys
A siege is something an army does. To be sieging an entire stronghold would naturally require one. He defeated the siege and by the sounds of it killed them all going by 'left nothing but jedi blood behind him'.
A small group of Jedi with Force senses can siege a stronghold without an army, and there simply have never been enough Jedi to think that they all would assemble together in numbers above one thousand for a single confrontation, the dumbass and retarded idea "Army of Light" being the sole exception.
Anyhow, my point is that he does not necessarily take on, like 10000 soldiers at once and kick their asses TUF Luke style, which was my impression when you said that he defeated "armies" single handedly. It's, again, a very difficult to quantify feat.
The term used is 'pulled out of the sky'. Slightly nudging it isn't pulling and if it was already falling he wouldn't be pulling it out of the sky.
Technically, it is. 😉 Roughly speaking, I see four possibilities here:
1. He directs the starship's fall, and we're taking "pull out of the sky" way too literally.
2. He nudges it out of orbit.
3. The ship is functional and hovering via repulsorlift or engines, so he disables its flight mechanisms and then directs its fall, in which case holy shit, he's ****ing powerful.
4. The ship is functional and hovering via repulsorlifts or engines, and he literally overpowers its flight mechanism through brute force and pulls it down to the surface, in which case holy shit, he one shots Yoda and Windu by flicking his wrist, assuming he does this under his own power without any sort of prep.
Also, that wouldn't make him the most powerful Force User in the mythos. Darth Nihilus would still be stronger.
Well, wasn't he in the presence of a DS nexus? And his feat is just as ridiculously ambiguous and difficult to accept at face value.
Originally posted by Master Han
A small group of Jedi with Force senses can siege a stronghold without an army, and there simply have never been enough Jedi to think that they all would assemble together in numbers above one thousand for a single confrontation, the dumbass and retarded idea "Army of Light" being the sole exception.Anyhow, my point is that he does not necessarily take on, like 10000 soldiers at once and kick their asses TUF Luke style, which was my impression when you said that he defeated "armies" single handedly. It's, again, a very difficult to quantify feat.
And yet Khem Val alone devoured over a thousand Jedi in that campaign. It was certainly an army. Even if it was as small as in the hundreds, which given the above it certainly wasn't, its still an incredible feat.
To siege something you have to be able to surround a stronghold and prevent it from being able to receive help or supplies. To do so you need large numbers of people.
Originally posted by Master Han
Technically, it is. 😉 Roughly speaking, I see four possibilities here:1. He directs the starship's fall, and we're taking "pull out of the sky" way too literally.
2. He nudges it out of orbit.
3. The ship is functional and hovering via repulsorlift or engines, so he disables its flight mechanisms and then directs its fall, in which case holy shit, he's ****ing powerful.
4. The ship is functional and hovering via repulsorlifts or engines, and he literally overpowers its flight mechanism through brute force and pulls it down to the surface, in which case holy shit, he one shots Yoda and Windu by flicking his wrist, assuming he does this under his own power without any sort of prep.
No, he wouldn't be pulling it from the sky in any of the options except no 4. To pull by definition is to 'draw or tug at something with force.' If he was merely nudging it or disabling his engines, he wouldn't be pulling it out of the sky.
Originally posted by Master Han
Well, wasn't he in the presence of a DS nexus? And his feat is just as ridiculously ambiguous and difficult to accept at face value.
True, but this was before he's started devouring entire planets. Thats why I said he's more powerful, but him raising the Ravager is certainly up there.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet Khem Val alone devoured over a thousand Jedi in that campaign.
😕
OK...TOR really has outdone itself this time. Devouring 1000 Jedi? Isn't that, like a tenth of the Order at its height? 😉 In a single campaign?
No, he wouldn't be pulling it from the sky in any of the options except no 4. To pull by definition is to 'draw or tug at something with force.' If he was merely nudging it or disabling his engines, he wouldn't be pulling it out of the sky.
Nudging its orbit or guiding its fall would both require the application of a force, so...it technically fits Val's description. It's not as if we're supposed to expect humility as a virtue from the dude.
Well actually it was 2 battles. But yeah, Tulak Hord truly is the most powerful Sith Lord who has ever lived ever.
Eh, if thats what you want to interpret it as. I disagree, but y'know. I guess there isn't enough to conclusively prove it either way.
Edit: Although recall that Darth Marr is also said to have 'routed whole armies.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]Well actually it was 2 battles. But yeah, Tulak Hord truly is the most powerful Sith Lord who has ever lived ever.
Wait...I assume you're joking, since you had earlier denied arguing that Hord could defeat either of these Jedi alone, and that Nihilus is stronger still... 😕
Originally posted by Nephthys
a master of sorcery
Plenty of sith are "masters" of sorcery. So were the Maul-replicating dark siders who Sidious turned to ash with a wave of his hand.
who fed off the energy of his opponents,
You mean fear? Because all dark siders do that.
and in one entry confirms that he was a lightsaber master.
Uh, "lightsaber master" describes, well...pretty much every random Jedi Master, lol.
They really did make him quite horribly overpowered, lol.
I'm sorry, but your specific accolades really don't do much to overpower him.
And yet Khem Val alone devoured over a thousand Jedi in that campaign. It was certainly an army. Even if it was as small as in the hundreds, which given the above it certainly wasn't, its still an incredible feat.
At the same time, I thought it was common knowledge that from the time the jedi banished the dark jedi to the Great Hyperspace War, they didn't come in contact. The lone discrepancy happens to be in the comics when Dreypa and his minions decided to venture back to the republic a year later and landed on Kesh.
I know, its really confusing.
Originally posted by Master Han
Plenty of sith are "masters" of sorcery. So were the Maul-replicating dark siders who Sidious turned to ash with a wave of his hand.You mean fear? Because all dark siders do that.
Uh, "lightsaber master" describes, well...pretty much every random Jedi Master, lol.
I'm sorry, but your specific accolades really don't do much to overpower him.
I'm merely pointing out yet another arrow in Hord's quiver. Plus considering he created rituals that allowed him everlasting life, the ability to drain power from death, created many artifacts powerful that their mere presence turns the weakminded insane and plumbed the depths of life and death with his sorcery, I'd say he was pretty good.
No, I mean that at Yn and Chabosh he drained the energy from his fallen victims, strengthening his own power and vitality.
Um, I know? Its just that theres always been scorn over Hords lightsaber abilities. Some people doubt that Kreia was being truthful when she fellated him for his lightsaber skills. I'm merely showing that he was indeed a lightsaber master. In fact, he created many lightsaber techniques of his own, indicting that he had superlative command of the saber.
The guy defeated armies of Jedi by himself and drained their power, ripped capital ships from the sky, was an unparallelled lightsaber master in his time and was a master sorcerer. That all seems pretty overpowered to me.
MWAHahahahahaha!!!!!
Okay, my copy of SWTORE just arrived. Allow me to correct my earlier number. Khem Val actually devored thousands, plural, of Jedi at Yn and Chabosh. And 'one of Khem Val's proudest victories came during the Battle of Chabosh, where he fought by Tulak Hords side to conquer an army of Jedi 1,000 strong.' Which also indicates that the army Tulak Hord repelled at Yn was likely at least a thousand strong itself.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm merely pointing out yet another arrow in Hord's quiver. Plus considering he created rituals that allowed him everlasting life, the ability to drain power from death, created many artifacts powerful that their mere presence turns the weakminded insane and plumbed the depths of life and death with his sorcery, I'd say he was pretty good.No, I mean that at Yn and Chabosh he drained the energy from his fallen victims, strengthening his own power and vitality.
Um, I know? Its just that theres always been scorn over Hords lightsaber abilities. Some people doubt that Kreia was being truthful when she fellated him for his lightsaber skills. I'm merely showing that he was indeed a lightsaber master. In fact, he created many lightsaber techniques of his own, indicting that he had superlative command of the saber.
The guy defeated armies of Jedi by himself and drained their power, ripped capital ships from the sky, was an unparallelled lightsaber master in his time and was a master sorcerer. That all seems pretty overpowered to me.
None of this, by your admission, puts him on Yoda or Palpatine's level, though. 😉 So unless if you think the Big Two are overpowered, why would you give Hord the label?
Originally posted by Nephthys
^ Drama much?Yeah, he was 10. He broke his Sith Lord fathers mind after conquering an entire continent. He then traveled to Korriban where Ragnos recognized his incredible powah and made him the youngest Sith Lord ever.
...where does it say he was the youngest sith lord evar?