Metal Gear Solid 4

Originally posted by S_D_J
Sorry but MGS >> Splinter Cell

SC capitalizes on MG weaknesses, but it does not change the fact that MG is the original... not to mention the brilliance of the story and (if you are fan) the way the game plays with your emotions.

I really loved the boss fight.. while it seem it was cumbersome to get adjusted to it, I felt right at home remembering Snake and Liquid fist fight in MGS1... that was the intention, that's how it was mean to be fought... and I appreciated the fan service.

oh boy, the fan service, the game it's choke full of them....especially the PS1 flashback... and then hearing "The Best Is Yet to Come" when you stepped into Shadow Moses.... Brilliant

again dont get me wrong, mgs is by far the greatest game series i have ever played. im not huge on gameplay, which is probably why i like/hate the games that i do, f/e, i hate pretty much all shooters, (including, but not limited to halo) because they are such empty games, sure it can be fun for a while, but the lack of story bores me. now even if the gameplay never changes through the entirety of the game, and in general is just horrible, but the story is captivating, i will play it all the way through... like i hate turn based gameplay, but i LOVE ff7, one of my favorite games...maybe i should just start reading more lol

Original doesn't make it automatically better.

Any Policenauts fans here by the way? It's (along with Snatcher) easily on par with the original Metal Gear Solid in my opinion and I think the visual novel genre is better suited for Hideo Kojima's talents (not that he isn't an exceptionally talented gameplay designer), with how every action you take in the game is built to advance the storyline; it allows Hideo Kojima to focus entirely on storyline, without detracting from the gameplay experience (they largely become one and the same in the visual novel genre).

MGS's story has always been garbage, imo. typical convoluted and hypocritical Japanese overacting story, imo.

I guess, though I'm one of the few who still play MGS for the gameplay and how fun it is. I stopped keeping track of the overall story line a long time ago. It's just wave after wave of bosses, henchmen and sneaking around to me. Fun though.

The storyline is flawed, but it's one of the most ambitious storylines you will find in gaming.

Ditto about the story being a convoluted pile of shite. MGS2 had the most horrendous, UNsympathetic characters ever and its considered to be the best MGS. MGS was the only one that wasn't that convuluted. MGS3 wasn't a great story but it was the first time where Kojima actually established a realistic chemistry between two characters (boss/big boss). MGS4 was probably the worst written one of all imo.

The storyline is flawed, but it's one of the most ambitious storylines you will find in gaming.

my take on MGS is this: if it was written into a novel it'd be 900 pages of rambling and ravings of a stupid, internet geek with enough social skills to consider a bug infestation a birthday bash, a plot with absolutely no streamlining and plotholes the size of cropcircles. there might be some likeable characters here and there with brief flashes of creativity and humane moments but most people would be just cardboard cutouts of testostrone dripping imps running around squating on one knee to talk about shit that doesn't matter during a top secret mission where the smartest people of the world have decided that sending ONE man to steal a nuke, destroy giant robots, fight an army and make it back alive is better than a planned airstrike.

i find it funny how MGS fanboys call it a "narrative". its a disgrace.

I will say that the storyline can be a tad unrealistic at times (and largely purposefully so), but the Metal Gear Solid saga has never been about believability, but more so the artistry and complexity and sheer depth behind the themes explored, where all that's required on the audience's part is a willing suspension of disbelief for them to immerse themseleves in a world of largely unparalleled imagination and vision. So yeah, if a lack of believability is something that can break a story in your eyes, then it's probably not for you. For those that can willingly accept the unrealistic elements and still engage themselves with the storyline, it offers a near unparalleled level of brilliance in storytelling (surpassed only by the Xenogears, Xenosaga, and Chrono mythologies).

As for the storyline being "convoluted", it's a criticism I feel that's often made by those who either weren't able to understand the storyline or have little appreciation for depth and complexity in storytelling.

Originally posted by Snow Villiers
As for the storyline being "convoluted", it's a criticism I feel that's often made by those who either weren't able to understand the storyline or have little appreciation for depth and complexity in storytelling.

Agreed

Took me to two playthroughs for MGS 2 to fully understand it.

Story of MGS1 left me somewhat unimpressed, but the game itself was pretty fun.

The last fight made me think of this years before I even saw the video. I must be a psychic.

Storywise, MGS1 was the weakest of all four games (and I would say that Snatcher and Policenauts also surpass it in this area), however it still had a very deep, very emotive, and quite complex storyline, and introduced many themes, ideas, characters and events that would later be explored in more detail in the subsequent games. With MGS2 it skyrocketed in depth and complexity, toned it down a bit with MGS3 and then brought it back up again with MGS4. The storyline peaked with MGS2 in my opinion though I feel MGS4 was the better game overall.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
Ditto about the story being a convoluted pile of shite. MGS2 had the most horrendous, UNsympathetic characters ever and its considered to be the best MGS. MGS was the only one that wasn't that convuluted. MGS3 wasn't a great story but it was the first time where Kojima actually established a realistic chemistry between two characters (boss/big boss). MGS4 was probably the worst written one of all imo.

ambitious doesn't make it good by any means. Twilight can be argued to be ambitious by some (it has) but its by no means good.

my take on MGS is this: if it was written into a novel it'd be 900 pages of rambling and ravings of a stupid, internet geek with enough social skills to consider a bug infestation a birthday bash, a plot with absolutely no streamlining and plotholes the size of cropcircles. there might be some likeable characters here and there with brief flashes of creativity and humane moments but most people would be just cardboard cutouts of testostrone dripping imps running around squating on one knee to talk about shit that doesn't matter during a top secret mission where the smartest people of the world have decided that sending ONE man to steal a nuke, destroy giant robots, fight an army and make it back alive is better than a planned airstrike.

i find it funny how MGS fanboys call it a "narrative". its a disgrace.

"Good" is subjective. The same argument can be made that you seeing it as convoluted doesn't make it bad. One thing is certain though, it's obviously not for everyone. Some see it as a convoluted and jumbled mess, others as an extremely complex storyline. Frankly I think both can be fairly reasonable stances.

For me I do think the plot is enjoyable simply because it's so out there. I'd rather watching someone shoot for the stars and maybe fail, than watch someone play it safe.