Greatest US President?

Originally posted by Janus Marius
The Emancipation Proclamation didn't do shit for slavery, since no one in the south was bound by Lincoln's law at that point, and during Reconstruction the slaves and former slaves got ****ed over anyways.

And Lincoln wasn't out to abolish slavery from a moral POV; he was doing what was neccessary to preserve the union.

When he issued it, it was at the turn of the tide. It had no immediate effect, but soon the war would be won and then the entire union would be under its command. Any discrimination after reconstruction is not Lincolns fault, but rather all the assholes in our country. The emancipation proclamation was regardless, a huge step for blacks as a whole towards equal rights.

And how do you know Lincolns POV? It seems more likely it was a mix of both, abolishing slavery helped the union yes, but Lincoln was also known to greatly despise slavery and it would be reasonable to assume he had moral motivations.

No it wasn't. The Emancipation proclomation only freed slaves in states in rebellion that had not returned to the Union by 1963.

It was a ploy, if the South came back to the Union, they kept their slaves. It was a political move. Moraility doesn't have to play a role in politics. Presidents have been able to keep their morals in their pants where they belong, at least historically. Lincoln may have helpd those views, that doesn't mean his decision to issue the EP was a moral move. It's more supported politically.

Anyone who uses civil rights as a barganing tool is not a great man in my book.

IMHO Clinton is the best U.S. president to date. What makes a good president isn't all about Morality, it's more about what they contribute to the country that wasn't there before them. The economy was at it's peak during his terms and quikly plummeted when GWB took office. This shows that it was not the times, but the president, and cabinet.
So he cheated on his wife, so what? Is he not permitted to have personal realtionships, just like every other american? Also, Clinton was great with keeping international affairs good. For example, the fight between Isreal and Palestine was coming close to a close, before GWB ****ed it up.

LMAO, Clinton continued the anti-environment policy that 'Dubya is so fond of. He's a liar too.

I never said he was perfect, just better than most. Sorry he's not a hippie 😉

Originally posted by Fatal Smoke
IMHO Clinton is the best U.S. president to date. What makes a good president isn't all about Morality, it's more about what they contribute to the country that wasn't there before them. The economy was at it's peak during his terms and quikly plummeted when GWB took office. This shows that it was not the times, but the president, and cabinet.
So he cheated on his wife, so what? Is he not permitted to have personal realtionships, just like every other american? Also, Clinton was great with keeping international affairs good. For example, the fight between Isreal and Palestine was coming close to a close, before GWB ****ed it up.

things were so much better during the Clinton era

I think CLinton was good, jut not the best. I'll give him second fo the 20th century, but its so hard to compare president inter-era. The presidency had changed so much, I have problems putting it into perspective.

Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

What other points besides that?

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

In my opinon, there is more to the United States than the environment.

Originally posted by Alliance
I think CLinton was good, jut not the best. I'll give him second fo the 20th century, but its so hard to compare president inter-era. The presidency had changed so much, I have problems putting it into perspective.

😂 I know. I just think Ahmadinijad is proving himself to be a rather brilliant politician. I think he's starting something big. He's incredibly charismatic and now is directly in the center of the global spotlight. He's got power. I admire those traits.

But hes still psycho, but whats life without a little flare? 😆 Even if its genocidal 😕.

Its a love-hate relationship.

Greatest: FDR

Worst: Buchanon

greates=clinton/lincoln/andrew jackson/andrew johnson/gerrald ford
worst=GWB/carter/nixon/kennedy

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The greatest president our nation ever had, is easily Lincoln. No other president was put under the strain he went through. He preserved the union(which is the top priority for any president), he wasnt afraid to use the powers given to him if it meant saving this country(many people considered it abuse, but if putting key people behind bars meant preserving the union... than it was justified) and he did it all while combating severe depression.

He was also the greatest president from a moral perspective, 'The great emancipator' as they call him, was the only president who dared to abolish slavery once and for all. He knew the risks involved with issuing that final declaration, but he did it regardless. Truly a great man.

Lincln had absolutely no intentions of abolishing slavery until 1863. Even then he abolished the practice with a caveat. If the Southern states had come back into the Union they could have kept their slaves. Lincoln is also one of the greatest limiters of freedoms the U.S. has ever seen. He suspended habeas corpus, he occupied three U.S. states, and he declared matial law. No other president could do that and be called great. With the way people talk about GWB and the Patriot Act, any person who appreciates their civil rights should be somewhat disturbed by Lincoln and his actions.

Originally posted by lord xyz
greates=clinton/lincoln/andrew jackson/andrew johnson/gerrald ford
worst=GWB/carter/nixon/kennedy

You are joking right. Jackson is the only one that truly fits any definition of great on this list. Clinton needs more time in order to be considered great. Lincoln went further than GWB and yet you have him listed as great. This makes little sense. Both men limited the freedoms of the citizenry at the times of their presidencies. Johnson was the first president to get impeached. He was a drunk, illiterate racist. Ford was a moron, he pardoned one of your worst presidents. Come on.

The greatest President of all time has to be either Teddy Roosevelt, or Woodrow Wilson. Yes both men had their faults. Wilson was a racist, while Teddy could be a bit hard-headed. However, look what these two men did. Wilson was the first to have the idea of a United Nations. His League of Nations was far beyond its time. Teddy brought down many of the monopolies that had become corrupt and corrupted America.

The Worst Presidents are easy and need almost no explanations. They are as follows: 1. Buchanon 2. Grant: Great General horrible President 3. Carter 4. Kennedy 5. Lincoln

I usually judge a President by what he physically and tangibly did for the country. In other words what the President did that before wasn't there, and afterwards caused a great impact with the nation. With that in mind, I would consider the greatest to be LBJ, not only for his Civil Rights bill, but also for the other phenomenal accomplishments that he did for America's education.

One of his single greatest acts, one that not many know about but has practically touched and bettered nearly every American's life since then, was the Higher Education Facilities Act. Its biggest incentive was the huge expansion of the student loan program. Before that, any student that wasn't fortunate enough to have parents pay for their college, or weren't poor enough to be considered for grants, had a very tough time obtaining student loans, or if they wanted personal loans they had to go through the higher-interest rate bank route. With this single act, millions of potential students were suddenly given access to low-interest rate loans, either subsidized or unsubsidized, so that they could go to school and graduate with their career.

Now think about those implications. Those of you reading this who are currently going to college with loans, there's a big chance you wouldn't be able to without this act. As much as one might groan about incurring them during school, think about how much worse it would be if they weren't there for you, or how much longer it would then take to finish school. Think about how many millions of Americans lives are being bettered because of this Act. On top of that it allowed much more funding for new colleges and universities, which was absolutely essential considering the huge growth in attendance in the years since.

That's just one of the Acts LBJ passed for America's education. Here's a link containing even more.

http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/lbjforkids/edu_timeline.shtm

Oh and just in case if after reading this, one might state that if LBJ did so many great things for America's education, why is it still in the gutter when compared to other countries? Because as always there are two kinds of people in this world: those who choose to better their lives with whatever life hands them, and others who could be given the world and still end up in a wallowed life. Not even a President, and however many Presidential acts, can help the latter.

what about Vietnam?

Originally posted by Alliance
what about Vietnam?

I knew it would be naturally brought up. With the issue on Vietnam and LBJ, it all depends on the person you're talking to. I could always find you one person that'll say he didn't start it, he didn't end it, but unfortunately he had to deal with it; and conversely I could find you another person that'll state he was the devil in disguise purposely leading Americans to their death.
Yes Vietnam was a bad thing, (whatever war isn't?) but in my opinion his accomplishments listed in my previous post, and the impact they physically had on Americans lives, far outweigh whatever negative impact Vietnam had. The acts LBJ passed since the early sixties are still strongly in effect decades later, and will greatly continue to help millions upon millions of Americans for decades to come. (And all of this support I'm giving to LBJ is coming from someone who considers themselves a moderate conservative no less).

War isn't always bad, ate least on a political level. I was just curious how you'd justify LBJ as the best with Vietnam hanging over his head.

Originally posted by systemshock2
I could find you another person that'll state he was the devil in disguise purposely leading Americans to their death.

That's Reagan.