Anakin Skywalker versus Obi-Wan Kenobi

obi wan would win. anakin is the better duelist, but doesnt have the mental side of it down. hes too uncontrolled. i think it was the ultimate visual guide that said it wasnt just the high ground that let obi wan win, when he heard anakin say the jedi were evil he realised he couldnt turn him back and knew what needed to be done. it says that once obi wan realised that the battle turned for him. anakin has more skill, but leaves himself open and takes too many stupid risks, which is what obi wans style is designed to exploit.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Lol, look at the Dooku fight. Obi gets pwnd, Anakin wins. He's superior to Obi-Wan.

Lol, look at the Kenobi VS Anakin fight.

Anakin gets pwnd, Obi wins.

He's superior to Anakin.

^ Awwww, see how easy that is to do?

Well Anakin was clearly overpowering the fight and lost due to his overconfidence and not because Kenobi was the better duelist, whereas Dooku clearly owned Kenobi while Anakin was somewhat able to defend against Dooku and eventually overpower him.

Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS). But Anakin is always at a mental disadvantage, especially against his only "father figure". In the Mustafar duel Anakin was full of rage, confusion, all the crap about padme AND he was fighting the man who essentially raised him and taught him everything he knew. As well, Obi is FAR more level headed and takes less risks (because of his personality and his saber style), Anakin just gets pissed and loses his cool, and is more prone to make mistakes. Against a normal duelist (even some exceptional duelists) Anakin's rage is too much to handle, even with any mistakes he might make. But Kenobi's style works well against that kind of fighting and Obi is THE Form III master of the order.

On Paper Anakin should mop the floor with Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure if it would ever happen, Kenobi has too much mental advantage over Anakin.

Yeah, and in Labyrinth of Evil and When They Were Brothers, which take place right before ROTS, it's made clear than Anakin has surprassed Kenobi in terms of power.

Indeed

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS). But Anakin is always at a mental disadvantage, especially against his only "father figure". In the Mustafar duel Anakin was full of rage, confusion, all the crap about padme AND he was fighting the man who essentially raised him and taught him everything he knew. As well, Obi is FAR more level headed and takes less risks (because of his personality and his saber style), Anakin just gets pissed and loses his cool, and is more prone to make mistakes. Against a normal duelist (even some exceptional duelists) Anakin's rage is too much to handle, even with any mistakes he might make. But Kenobi's style works well against that kind of fighting and Obi is THE Form III master of the order.

On Paper Anakin should mop the floor with Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure if it would ever happen, Kenobi has too much mental advantage over Anakin.

Okay, let's get something straight here. Anakin was NEVER the Jedi that Kenobi was. I'm sure Anakin was the better Jedi, seeing as he was the one who killed Younglings and slaughtered a temple of his own brotheren. And he tried to kill his master and turned into a Sith. BUT he's still the better Jedi than Kenobi, right?

Wrong. Kenobi was always the better Jedi than Anakin and that's clearly displayed in the movies.

I love how Anakin was supposedly the more powerful Jedi than Kenobi at that point. Funny, they were on par with Lightsabers then entire time and when they force pushed, it was on par. They were on par until Kenobi walked on top as the victor.

But Anakins still better! Even though he lost horribly!

he's still better . . . *cries*

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS).

LMAO, so judging by this kind of logic, Kenobi is as wise as Yoda and as great a swordsman as Windu? Or Anakin is a slow learner because he says so to Dooku in AOTC? Nonsense.

But Anakin is always at a mental disadvantage, especially against his only "father figure". In the Mustafar duel Anakin was full of rage, confusion, all the crap about padme AND he was fighting the man who essentially raised him and taught him everything he knew.

Erm, I also saw Anakin trying to butcher Kenobi during that fight. If he held any regard for Kenobi's life, he'd definetly given it up before that fight. He was aiming to kill Kenobi, that's a dead cert.

As well, Obi is FAR more level headed and takes less risks (because of his personality and his saber style), Anakin just gets pissed and loses his cool, and is more prone to make mistakes.

Erm, and? This only disproves you own point. Kenobi doesn't fight like a berserker and we see the benefits. He's not one of the most dangerous men in the galaxy for nothing.

Against a normal duelist (even some exceptional duelists) Anakin's rage is too much to handle, even with any mistakes he might make. But Kenobi's style works well against that kind of fighting and Obi is THE Form III master of the order.

O rly? Or is that more unsupported bullshit? I don't see Anakin being able to kill Yoda just because he goes into teh uber berserker mode.

On Paper Anakin should mop the floor with Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure if it would ever happen, Kenobi has too much mental advantage over Anakin.

LMAO, you're a crock of shit, Anomaly. As are your arguments...

QED

Originally posted by Antediluvian
Okay, let's get something straight here. Anakin was NEVER the Jedi that Kenobi was. I'm sure Anakin was the better Jedi, seeing as he was the one who killed Younglings and slaughtered a temple of his own brotheren. And he tried to kill his master and turned into a Sith. BUT he's still the better Jedi than Kenobi, right?

Wrong. Kenobi was always the better Jedi than Anakin and that's clearly displayed in the movies.

I love how Anakin was supposedly the more powerful Jedi than Kenobi at that point. Funny, they were on par with Lightsabers then entire time and when they force pushed, it was on par. They were on par until Kenobi walked on top as the victor.

But Anakins still better! Even though he lost horribly!

he's still better . . . *cries*

LOL, yes, in terms of 'what it means' to be a Jedi, Kenobi is one of the best EVER.

But have you read LoE? Kenobi is in awe of just about everything that Anakin does. Anakin is better then Kenobi, in every way, but Anakin is not the better "Jedi" in the meaning of the word. He is a better Jedi in terms of skill.

And in the saber Duel on Mustafar I saw Anakin kicking Kenobi's ass (for the most part) up until they were on the floating platforms.

Addressing "on par" with visual observations is subjective and not of any use for argumentation.

To you, you saw on par. To me, I saw Anakin on the attack the whole fight while kicking Kenobi in the face etc. etc. The only real time Kenobi had Anakin on the run was when they were on the table, which was more of a physical fight then a saber fight..Anakin was winning, Kenobi was tired and always had a VERY concerned look on his face the whole fight..From what I saw...Again, its all subjective and therefore of no use for argument. So its useless really...Just like Dooku fanboys saw Dooku "changing his saber style, and not trying" while fighting Anakin, I saw Dooku get Anakin pissed off then getting straight up pwned by Anakin.

Subjective observations are useless in terms of argument.

LMAO, so judging by this kind of logic, Kenobi is as wise as Yoda and as great a swordsman as Windu? Or Anakin is a slow learner because he says so to Dooku in AOTC? Nonsense.

No, because that wasn't coming from the actual person. It wasn't Windu saying "Obi-Wan is as strong as I am" and Yoda saying "Obi-wan is as wise as I am"...when it comes from the person being compared to, its not hyperbole, its a true (to the person) statement. Obi-wan thinks that Anakin is a "far better Jedi" then he is, he said it himself, and who better then himself to say who is better then he is?

Erm, I also saw Anakin trying to butcher Kenobi during that fight. If he held any regard for Kenobi's life, he'd definetly given it up before that fight. He was aiming to kill Kenobi, that's a dead cert.

Hyperbole, and unsubstantiated claims, prove it. He was a damn conflicted boy at this point. To argue this is to be completely ignorant of the entire surrounding events of the duel.

rm, and? This only disproves you own point. Kenobi doesn't fight like a berserker and we see the benefits. He's not one of the most dangerous men in the galaxy for nothing.

This post is useless...I said that Kenobi's style is like this, and it helped him stay alive against Anakin..you only repeated what i said, why? lol

O rly? Or is that more unsupported bullshit? I don't see Anakin being able to kill Yoda just because he goes into teh uber berserker mode.

Again, thats not what I said. I said he can take some exceptional swordsmen when he gets mad. Did I say anything about Yoda? At all? No..Go watch the Clone Wars cartoon, Watch the Dooku fight at the beginning of ROTS. Would you not say Dooku is an exceptional duelist? lol 🙄

LMAO, you're a crock of shit, Anomaly. As are your arguments...

QED

Try again n00b. Stop attempting to put words in my mouth and then you might be able to formulate an effective argument...maybe.

Or Anakin is a slow learner because he says so to Dooku in AOTC?

In all fairness, doesn't Anakin say that in a sarcastic manner because Dooku says something along the lines of "I'd thought you'd have learnt your lesson"?

Not that it matters, the rest I agree with.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
LOL, yes, in terms of 'what it means' to be a Jedi, Kenobi is one of the best EVER.

Yup.

But have you read LoE? Kenobi is in awe of just about everything that Anakin does. Anakin is better then Kenobi, in every way, but Anakin is not the better "Jedi" in the meaning of the word. He is a better Jedi in terms of skill.

Of course! Anakin was becoming the prodigal Jedi that everyone was talking about and he was pretty damn powerful, but he lacks the intelligence and experience that Kenobi has.

And in the saber Duel on Mustafar I saw Anakin kicking Kenobi's ass (for the most part) up until they were on the floating platforms.

Addressing "on par" with visual observations is subjective and not of any use for argumentation.

To you, you saw on par. To me, I saw Anakin on the attack the whole fight while kicking Kenobi in the face etc. etc. The only real time Kenobi had Anakin on the run was when they were on the table, which was more of a physical fight then a saber fight..Anakin was winning, Kenobi was tired and always had a VERY concerned look on his face the whole fight..From what I saw...Again, its all subjective and therefore of no use for argument. So its useless really...Just like Dooku fanboys saw Dooku "changing his saber style, and not trying" while fighting Anakin, I saw Dooku get Anakin pissed off then getting straight up pwned by Anakin.

Subjective observations are useless in terms of argument.

Ah, so true, Anomaly. So true.

LUCKILY I have the final draft of the ROTS Script! Let's read!

"ANAKIN forces OBI-WAN back into the Conference Room where the quarters are much closer. Sparks fly everywhere. ANAKIN jumps onto the conference table. OBI-WAN slides across the table, knocking ANAKIN over. OBI-WAN grabs ANAKIN’s lightsaber as he falls. OBI-WAN uses the Force to summon his dropped lightsaber. ANAKIN does the same."

Anakin forces Kenobi into a room and Kenobi knocks Anakin to the ground. In that part, they both have good maneuvers.

"
ANAKIN and OBI-WAN move their fight toward the main control center. As the laser swords fly, bits of the hallway are cut up. OBI-WAN and ANAKIN jump and use every trick in the Jedi book. "

^ On par.

"OBI-WAN and ANAKIN lock sabers. OBI-WAN puts out his hand to use the Force to push ANAKIN away. ANAKIN puts out his hand to block OBI-WAN.
Both combatants are blasted backwards onto the control panels. "

^ On par.

"ANAKIN follows, and OBI-WAN cuts his young apprentice at the knees, then cuts off his left arm in the blink of an eye. ANAKIN tumbles down the embankment and rolls to a stop near the edge of the lava. "

Ouch, not so on par there.

One could say Kenobi wasn't going all out because it was his apprentice. If Kenobi was the ideal Jedi, he would have held back a bit. I mean . . . Weren't you saying Kenobi was amazing with him? Proud of him? You think it's going to be easy to kill someone that he apparently "loved"?

No, and, Kenobi was on the defensive for most of that fight because . . . *GASP* . . . He uses Soresu, which happens to be a defensive form!

Thats all fine and dandy, but the actual movie itself trumps even the final draft script.

Lucasfilms policy on absolute canon as well as these forums policy:

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

The films Trump even the final script draft because many parts of the script are not in the movies. Only the movies can be judged at highest canon and unfortunately I saw what I saw, and you saw what you saw in the movie with the mustafar duel. Making it pointless to debate because seeing is subjective.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Thats all fine and dandy, but the actual movie itself trumps even the final draft script.

Lucasfilms policy on absolute canon as well as these forums policy:

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - [B]and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

The films Trump even the final script draft because many parts of the script are not in the movies. Only the movies can be judged at highest canon and unfortunately I saw what I saw, and you saw what you saw in the movie with the mustafar duel. Making it pointless to debate because seeing is subjective. [/B]

Er, Actually . . .

The final draft of the script IS what builds the movie while they're filming. When an actor needs to read their lines . . . what do they look at? When they need to make a specific action or movement . . . What do they look at? The script is no novelisation and no interpretation, it's the boundaries of the film.

what does lucas film policy say?

Read it, here I'll post it and bold it again for you.

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

ONLY the films, not the script of the films, the films themselves. Sorry.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what does lucas film policy say?

Read it, here I'll post it and bold it again for you.

[B]When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

ONLY the films, not the script of the films, the films themselves. Sorry. [/B]

Obviously I have to repeat myself because you're not quite getting it clearly.

Does it mention the scripts not being Canon? All I see it mention is novelisations and interpretations.

Proof of Absence isn't Absence of proof, Anomaly. Get that through your head.

The script explains specific detail of what movie characters say and what they do - The final draft, of course.

The script is another word for THE MOVIE IN READING FORM.

So yes, thanks for the bold revision there. I think you need to re-read it.

Thats not what its saying, because the movie undergoes many changes from even the final draft script (Lucas changes his mind constantly in post-production) ONLY the actual final film is absolute canon. The final script is like the first draft of the idea of what the movie is gonna be.

Movies trump the script. The final draft script of ANH didn't have greedo shoot first, but the movie overrides that point and makes it canon. The ROTJ script didn't have ROTS Anakin in it at the end, but the movie overrides the final draft script.

The script is subject to change in pre/ pro/ and post-production. It is not final canon compared to the movies.

The movies are Lucas's final vision, the script WAS his vision, but he changes A LOT (and get rid of a lot) in the movies.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Thats not what its saying, because the movie undergoes many changes from even the final draft script (Lucas changes his mind constantly in post-production) ONLY the actual final film is absolute canon. The final script is like the first draft of the idea of what the movie is gonna be.

Movies trump the script. The final draft script of ANH didn't have greedo shoot first, but the movie overrides that point and makes it canon. The ROTJ script didn't have ROTS Anakin in it at the end, but the movie overrides the final draft script.

The script is subject to change in pre/ pro/ and post-production. It is not final canon compared to the movies.

The movies are Lucas's final vision, the script WAS his vision, but he changes A LOT (and get rid of a lot) in the movies.

Cool, but there's only one problem . . .

The final script is the . . . LAST draft of what the movie is going to be. The rough script is the FIRST draft of the idea of what the movie is going to become.

By the way, everything I mentioned from that script all happened in the movie. Everything I mention from the YODA VS SIDIOUS fight all happened in the movie.

I agree with Anomoly.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
I agree with Anomoly.

Your opinion doesn't matter. You can't even spell his user name correctly.