Rule of Tow

Yes but the question is why did they know it did one of the sith just come up to them and tell them it makes no sense for them to know it had always bothered me and it is also why i believe that the first three movies that came out in the 70's are way better

Like I say, they knew it because that is how it always was when they fought the Sith!

That is absolutely how it was meant to be.

Actually, ush, according to Lucas, there used to be a lot of Sith, but thanks to the Jedi and the infighting , they were reduced to one Sith who started the rule of two. Apparently the Jedi have had clashes with the Sith since Ruusan, Ki-Adi being a bit misinformed

Actually they were reduced to Two that is why it was the Rule of Two it was the Master Bane and the Apprentice Zahanna.

I know exactly what GL said thankyou, Lightsnake. That's actually directly where all this is coming from.

And DZ, that is a continutiy that seems to contradict GL. GL specifies that they fought until only one was left, and THEN that one took an Apprentice.

Well as it is know either way it ended up with two people so it really doesn't matter but the point is that they fought more than two sith for quite awhile if that was how it was the whole time that would make sense but they don't so tell me how they know and i will maybe understand what the hell Yoda thinks he is thinking about in the movies.

So, the much older Yoda was right, rather than Ki-Adi? Anakin's blowing up about how he's not a master was contradicted in the official TPM stuff, where Ki-Adi was a knight and on the council.

That was never official TPM stuff. That was another peice of EU background detail that got blown out the water.

The contradiction is simple, DZ- the EU misinterpreted TPM and the error came from there.

To reconcile, you would actually have to retcon Darth Bane to far more than 1000 years ago, and not have him as the last Sith Lord the Jedi fought.

This is the crutch issue. As far as the films are concerned, the point at which the Sith were thought to have died out a thousand years ago is NOT the same time they went to being only two people. That had already happened, long before.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Problem here is that GL and the EU conflict somewhat.

GL has commented that the traiditon of there being only two Sith has gone on for thousands of years.

The EU makes it out to be only a thousand years ago, and even more confusingly often makes it out to be a secret, so it is unclear how the Jedi knew it in TPM.

I think the EU is in trouble there, continuity wise. George Lucas' comments make it clear that when Jedi fought Sith at anything other than the very first time it happened, there were just two of them.

No, it was in the visual dictionaries and the official guides, even the making of. The EU didn't 'misinterpret' anything, novelizations and the like get line by line edits.

And the time the Sith were thought gone not being the same as when they were two people? According to who? Ki-Adi Mundi?

How do they become Sith in the first place? If the whole point of the saga was to eliminate the Sith forever, and Ki Adi says they've been extinct for a millenium, how could they return? (from a Jedi's pov).

LS, the visual dictionaries and what-not are all EU> My statement stands- the EU got it wrong.

Mist- easy. A thousand years ago they thought they had killed both Master and Apprentice. Clearly they were wrong.

The only way to become a Sith is to be taught by the Master. Exaactly how they started out, GL has never made entirely clear.

As for KOTOR, that is set long enough ago that it could be during the period before the Sith slaughtered themselves down to two people. But it is still clearly far more rooted in the EU area than the film one.

What you havr to do is totally strip away all the EU, everything you have read or heard. Pretend you don't know anything about Star Wars at all. Then watch TPM.

You will get just these canonical facts about the Sith:

1. They want revenge
2. They were thought to be extinct a thousand years ago
3. They train in the Jedi arts
4. There are only ever two

By watching TPM, there is no information that there were EVER more than two Sith at a time.

The onkly reason we know there were ever more, is that GL said so. But he describes that as being something that happened thousands of years ago, and clearly makes out that for much of their history, the Sith were just two.

But because of the influence of the comics and a total misreading of the 'extinct for a thousand years' line, the EU has a totally different continuity here, which is pretty much rendered incorrect by the films.

Actully the whole thing about them being extinct I do belive has to do with the True sith that the dark Jedi meet on Korriban and after centries the exiled dark jedi and the true sith become known as one

Again, that's nothing to do with the continuity established by the films.

Ki-Adi's been wrong before, why is his word the gospel? and it was in the Lucas reviewed stuff that Ki started as a knight on the council. The thing is, those EU were lucas approved, and he worked very closely with the authors for it. And according to Lucas, there were more than two Sith, we know they 'want revenge', and we know Yoda knows about the rule of two and that Ki-Adi Mundi is wrong almost every time he opens his mouth. That EU was based upon what Lucas said, during the production of TPM and came after TPM. The facts are: Ki was wrong, just like he was wrong about how Count Dooku couldn't have assassinated anyone.
The TPM novelizaiton and dictionary make that clear and Lucas worked closely with the authors of both.

does anyone realize that this is The EU forums so why are we talking about the films so Ushgarak if you have something to talk about about that doesn't have to do with the films

Originally posted by Ushgarak
LS, the visual dictionaries and what-not are all EU> My statement stands- the EU got it wrong.

Mist- easy. A thousand years ago they thought they had killed both Master and Apprentice. Clearly they were wrong.

The only way to become a Sith is to be taught by the Master. Exaactly how they started out, GL has never made entirely clear.

As for KOTOR, that is set long enough ago that it could be during the period before the Sith slaughtered themselves down to two people. But it is still clearly far more rooted in the EU area than the film one.

What you havr to do is totally strip away all the EU, everything you have read or heard. Pretend you don't know anything about Star Wars at all. Then watch TPM.

You will get just these canonical facts about the Sith:

1. They want revenge
2. They were thought to be extinct a thousand years ago
3. They train in the Jedi arts
4. There are only ever two

By watching TPM, there is no information that there were EVER more than two Sith at a time.

The onkly reason we know there were ever more, is that GL said so. But he describes that as being something that happened thousands of years ago, and clearly makes out that for much of their history, the Sith were just two.

But because of the influence of the comics and a total misreading of the 'extinct for a thousand years' line, the EU has a totally different continuity here, which is pretty much rendered incorrect by the films.

You ah, misspelled have.

I got one explanation for Yoda saying what he did about the rule of two. I am thinking maby the force told him somehow. After all he is more in touch with the force then anyone else is realy. Also the rule of two being secret is a good thing. It explains why the Sith managed to survive. When the rule of 2 was created the Jedi had though all the Sith had been wiped out. I am sure the Jedi tried to see if they could find any more but by the time of the rule of two. The Sith had gone so deep into hiding that the Jedi could find no trace of them so they assumed they were wiped out. I am sure many of them had doubts that they were gone for good but after a couple hundred years it was easy for them to believe them. I am sure they thought the Sith were to impatiant hide for that long.

Originally posted by Darth Zahanna
does anyone realize that this is The EU forums so why are we talking about the films so Ushgarak if you have something to talk about about that doesn't have to do with the films

Because we started talking about what info we had on the Rule of Two! And part of that came from the films, and I pointed out that the EU was in error with regards to the films, and you were saying otherwise so I was re-iterating that.

And it IS error. Remember, in the EU, the primary canon is still the films.

Lightsnake, we have been over this 'approved by GL' nonsense before. That doesn't mean shit for continuity. EU authors always know that they are in a secondary continuity line. GL never created or cared about that thing about Ki being only a Knight. As for the rest, you just have to re-read what was said above.

That the Sith have been thought extinct for a millennia is canon too.

Look, you don't NEED an explanation. The films already HAVE one, that overrides everyone else. Yoda knows about the Rule of Two because the Rule of Two is not a secret. It was there when they last fought the Sith.

Geez.

According to Ki-Adi Mundi, who, according to material that has been closely reviewed with Lucas himself, was incorrect...is Count Dooku incapable of assassinating everyone? Was the Republic only a thousand years old? And yeah, for all we know Gl DID create the thing about Ki-Adi being a knight and he defintiely had to approve it.

Ki was wrong, it's that simple. Yoda knew something he didn't, as it was in the very tPM novelization, which had a line by line review, that one thousand years ago was when the Rule of two started