Rule of Tow

Lightsnake, I will repeat once more. Unless it is in the films or GL's comments, it is NOT film canon OR made any more official, no matter how much GL approved of the work. He works by very simple rules- it doesn't matter if he approves it or not, if it is not his work, it doesn't count. EU authors are very much aware of that.

Ignore everything else. Watch the film. Ignore all the other nonsense. The situation is clear. KAM is NOT wrong- that is information being given to the viewer. The TPM novel is contradicted by GL himself, so your point there is wrong also. GL makes it clear that the Rule of Two had been going on for thousands of years.

Sorry- it is the EU that is wrong.

No, he doesn't. All we have is one line from a very fallible Jedi. And according to GL, how old's the Republic then?

At least a thousand generations. But so what? Republics get re-founded all the time. Just look at France- it is on its fifth.

Sorry, point remains, you are wrong, GL contradicts you, and that information about the Sith being thought extinct a thousand years ago is absolutely and totally canon.

Refounded? but that's in the EU.

And actually, GL both approved and created the idea of the Sith's Rule of two going on for a thousand years and Ki being wrong. If you're clinging to that, you have to acknowledge the Republic is only a thousand years old

Incorrect.

GL's DIRECT quoting on how the Sith work clearly says it had been going on for thousands of years.

Your statement above is, I suspect, a direct lie.

More and likly it is just a mistake on the part of Lucas. To think that Lucas can not make mistakes is just stupid. Look at what he did in A New Hope when he had it edited in that Greedo shoots first. Or when he edited haden in as anakin's ghost at the end of the Return of the Jedi special edition. Lucas us human and makes mistakes. Plot holes happen. We should not be obsessing over it. The EU and the movies are for our enjoyment so just enjoy them.

You might call them mistakes, but that doesn't matter. What GL says is law.

Besides which, it is NOT a mistake. None of the film work contradicts itself. It only contradicts the EU. That is the fault of the EU authors, not GL.

There is no plot hole other than in some people's minds.

So, GL is a fallible movie character? How about when GL makes an idea for and in the EU? And none of the film works contradict themselves? The Republic standing for a thousand years much?

Again, that's not an error. It is obvious that the last founding of the Republic was a thousand years ago. What is your problem?

You are just losing the plot now. What is that 'GL is a fallible movie character' statement all about?

GL didn't say a thing about the Sith being extinct for a millenia, GL created the idea of the Rule of two and helped to create the idea around Ruusan, a millenia beforehand which gave birth to the Rule of Two. He approved of or even created it.

And no, it's not obvious...the movies say the Republic stood for a thousand years, contradicting ANH

Again, you are just ignoring what I say.

The Republic of France is just over 200 years old. But the current French Republic was founded just a few decades ago.

There is no contradiction. The current Republic was founded a thousand years ago. But Jedi have been defending the Republic in general since the very first one was founded. Easy.

GL put the line in about the Sith being thought extinct on purpose. The entire plot revolves around that line- that the Jedi THOUGHT the Sith were dead then, but clearly they were not. That is the point.

GL created the idea of the Rule of Two. Unless you can show otherwise, I have never seen the slightest hint that he invented Ruusan or anything similar. But he did, directly, say that the Rule of Two had been going on for thousands of years, plainly and undeniably.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You might call them mistakes, but that doesn't matter. What GL says is law.

Besides which, it is NOT a mistake. None of the film work contradicts itself. It only contradicts the EU. That is the fault of the EU authors, not GL.

There is no plot hole other than in some people's minds.

How about this then. Lucas added in at the return of the jedi people celebrating all over the galaxy celebrating the emperor's death. Before Lucas has even done this the book The Truce of Bakura was already written. In it it tell you that no one in the empire knew the empire was dead and they thought the destruction of the death star was part of the emperor's plan. This is just one reason Lucas made a mistake with the celebrating. Now here is another reason he made a mistake on that. In episode 3 you pretty much see that very few people even know that Palpatine was a Sith. Palpatine even set it up to make it look like he was a Hero. While it is true that there were some unhappy people. But most of the humans within the empire saw the empire itself as a good thing and not as the bad guys. As for the non-human. Well we all know that the Empire was rather racist on their attitude towards non-humans. Also there seemed to be a mistake in a New Hope that was there at the beggining. Remember when Luke told Obi-Wan that he hated the Empire. If you recall that earlier on in the movie Luke told Uncle Owen he wanted to go to the acadomy. I do not think tattoine had any of those so I am assuming he ment the Imperial Acadomy because there is no way the Rebellian had one. So the real question is, If Luke hates the Empire then why does he want to join the Acadomy? We know that Biggs left for the Acadomy and then defected to the Rebellion. Did Luke Plan on doing that himself? Lucas is Human and all Humans make mistakes. If someone thinks otherwise, then it just shows how unintelligent they are.

Jam, you have to get used to something here.

As far as George Lucas is concerned, the EU does not count. It is an alternative continuity that he does not care about. It is nothing to do with HIS continuity.

Have you not picked that up yet? I recommend you check the canon policy posed in the film threads.

And Luke just wanted to fly. His 'hatred' of the Empire was just bravado. Not until his folks were killed diod he really become that way. His conversation with Biggs about the Rebellion clearly shows that Luke was no Rebel by default before then- Biggs was trying to convince him.

He's right on this one, LS. The Republic has never actually stood as a singular Republican Era.

They have a series of eras. Old Republic, New Republic, blah blah blah!

But those're still EU concepts, if we take that, why preclude the other stuff? And what about the other things from EU GL puts in? And no hint? how about his extremely close working with of the TPM novelization, including turning over some of his own concepts?

If GL wants to take stuff from the EU, that's just fine. It is his choice. He can take material from absolutely anything he likes. Part of the intro for ROTS is taken from 'Hero'- that doesn't make that film canonical in Star Wars.

The EU's own canon policy states that film continuity has primacy. Hence, if the EU makes a mistake of this nature- or if GL contradicts it with later work- it is the EU that has to give way.

Because a single line from a character proven to be fallible in his knowledge is downright 100 percent true?

Look, what is this 'fallible' nonsense about?

KI Adi was simply stating a fact- that the Jedi thought they had killed the Sith a thousand years ago. No-one ever contradicted that, no-one told him he was wroing, because clearly the Jedi DID think that, which is why QGJ's claim was so outrageous,. Even Mace was sceptical.

Once more- the whole point is this idea that the Sith were thought extinct, but that was an error. All this weird nonsense about KAM being fallible seems to be a massive distraction. Yes, he was fallible- rather like the whole Order had been on this issue. That doesn't change the importance or relevance of this canonical line.

Lucas not think the Expanded Universe does not count makes no since. If that was the case he would not have Expanded Universe stuff on starwars.com. That kind of comment is one Supershadow would make and has made. We all know how fake he is. Also look at all the money the EU has brought in for him. To deny that would be to deny himself any money he made off of it. We all know that Lucas would never deny that money. The fact of the matter is that the Expanded Universe is just as important as the Movies. I admit I do not put as much emphases on the comics. I have never realy read any of them. But I have read lots of the books. I consider them just as important to the story as the Movies. As do many of the fans.

No, Ki-Adi thought they'd killed the Sith. And the much older Yoda knew something the rest of the Jedi didn't. I'll trust the Lucas edited and collaborated novelization on the issue