5th Dimension vs Celestials

Started by GODSCRIBE4 pages

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i've never been convinced an imp would beat some of the high level cosmics. the reason? ALL high level cosmics (galactus, celestials, watchers and any on that level or above) can ALL perceive and interact with the universe on levels far above what we can or what they are often creditted with. a battle between 2 watchers was waged simultaneously on many levels of reality. odin himself has shook the multiverse. that would include the 5th dimension were the 5th dimension in marvel

featwise, it would seem the imps would/could prevail, but logically i'm just not sure. i don't doubt their reality manipulating abilities, i just don't know if they would work against beings theoretically capable of seeing the universe the same they do.

imps did well (for a time) against spectre, but in the end he proved to be much more powerful than they were i believe.

i'm not completely convinced the 5th dimension wins this one. 😬

interesting 😄

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
I'll give the answer in two parts. The first one will be the short, short, answer in this post. The second one (which will take me a few mintues to write out) will be the detailed post.

The Celestials are ervants to Eternity, the same way that Apocalypse is a servant to the Celestials (revealed in this months issue of X-Men). As for your questions:

Q: What are they?
A: See my second post.

Q: Why do they care about this universe so much?
A: It's their job. Just like it's the Watcher's job to watch.

Q: What is their celestial universe like?
A: This [b]is
their universe.

Q: Are they still alive, because I heard that Galactus somehow wiped them all out?
A: Yes, they are still alive. They were last seen this month in the latest issue of X-Men, when they took Apocalypse so that he could fulfill his part of the bargain they made with him 5000 years ago. The story of them being taken out by Galactus was probably a story of what happened in Earth X. I'll get into that in the next post.

Q: How do they tie in with the whole Galactus turning into a star and starting the next universe thing?
A: See my second post.

Q: AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHERE DID THEY GET THE RIGHTS TO USE THE MONOLITH FROM MY FAVORITE MOVIE(2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY OF COURSE)? I'LL ADD I WAS EXTREMELY UPSET THAT THEY TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT WHOLE THING. I LIKE TO JUST IGNORE THAT PIECE OF COMIC INFO.......
A: See my second post. [/B]

Didn't Cable, Storm, and another X-man get sent through some worm hole or something and get to see the Celestial universe for a quick second and it was completely different? Also, I've heard that they need their suits to survive in this universe, and if it's theirs, why do they need the suits?

Also, where is this elusive 2nd post????

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
einsteinium physics doesn't apply to the imps does it??

celestials are pretty damn powerful, and are tolerant to manipulation and magic (thor's godblast concentrated with the belt of strength did nothing to a celestial). they can hurtle planets and stars and the imps, so i don't know. seems like it will be close.

Not close.

All the imps together would be bloody murder!

Think of it this way ....2 imps (Mr Myx... and Bat-Mite) wrecked the whole of DC .....they were jumping from universe to universe wrecking everything ....literally everything.
Every single Earth in the DC multiverse was destroyed (as in Earth 1, 2, etc, DC one million earth, Earth X, S etc, Kingdom Come earth) ....they even came into our reality (as in the real world), but decided to go back.

After destroying everything they had a laugh, and then reset (yep) everything back to normal and promised each other to do it all over again 'next Tuesday.'

Let's see a celestial ....or any number of them ....do what Bat-mite and Mr Mxy... could do.

Now, add all the imps into the mix. From Mxy's wife to Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt Imp Genie, to all the various denizens of Mr Mxys and Bat-mite's dimension.

If 2 imps can play kid games with the entire multiverse (and even cross over to our reality), what about an entire dimension of them.

Curb stomp : 10/10 in favor of the imps. (Actually since it is imps we are talking about, it would be more like infinity/nil)

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
yeah, how though. you havent really explained how.

Check my post.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Not close.

All the imps together would be bloody murder!

Think of it this way ....2 imps (Mr Myx... and Bat-Mite) wrecked the whole of DC .....they were jumping from universe to universe wrecking everything ....literally everything.
Every single Earth in the DC multiverse was destroyed (as in Earth 1, 2, etc, DC one million earth, Earth X, S etc, Kingdom Come earth) ....they even came into our reality (as in the real world), but decided to go back.

After destroying everything they had a laugh, and then reset (yep) everything back to normal and promised each other to do it all over again 'next Tuesday.'

Let's see a celestial ....or any number of them ....do what Bat-mite and Mr Mxy... could do.

Now, add all the imps into the mix. From Mxy's wife to Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt Imp Genie, to all the various denizens of Mr Mxys and Bat-mite's dimension.

If 2 imps can play kid games with the entire multiverse (and even cross over to our reality), what about an entire dimension of them.

Curb stomp : 10/10 in favor of the imps. (Actually since it is imps we are talking about, it would be more like [b]infinity/nil) [/B]

Wow..... interesting, but we can't know everything about the Celestials Tech. What if they have something that can zap them and make them 4th demensional little girls?????

Originally posted by S.S
That's because you think to much old man........😛

why you . . . 😠

you should hope to be as old -- er, as wise and middle aged as i am!! 😄

Originally posted by spetznaz
Not close.

All the imps together would be bloody murder!

Think of it this way ....2 imps (Mr Myx... and Bat-Mite) wrecked the whole of DC .....they were jumping from universe to universe wrecking everything ....literally everything.
Every single Earth in the DC multiverse was destroyed (as in Earth 1, 2, etc, DC one million earth, Earth X, S etc, Kingdom Come earth) ....they even came into our reality (as in the real world), but decided to go back.

After destroying everything they had a laugh, and then reset (yep) everything back to normal and promised each other to do it all over again 'next Tuesday.'

Let's see a celestial ....or any number of them ....do what Bat-mite and Mr Mxy... could do.

Actually they can. They can destroy universes pretty easily as well. They can also time travel and traverse dimensions and destroy them just as easily. But they aren't a destructive race, so they don't do it. But in the Infinity Gauntlet saga, it was pretty evident how easy they could destroy a universe.

Originally posted by leonidas
why you . . . 😠

you should hope to be as old -- er, as wise and middle aged as i am!! 😄


😛
Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Actually they can. They can destroy universes pretty easily as well. They can also time travel and traverse dimensions and destroy them just as easily. But they aren't a destructive race, so they don't do it. But in the Infinity Gauntlet saga, it was pretty evident how easy they could destroy a universe.

Read what Spetznaz posted
Originally posted by spetznaz
Not close.

All the imps together would be bloody murder!

Think of it this way ....2 imps (Mr Myx... and Bat-Mite) wrecked the whole of DC .....they were jumping from universe to universe wrecking everything ....literally everything.
Every single Earth in the DC multiverse was destroyed (as in Earth 1, 2, etc, DC one million earth, Earth X, S etc, Kingdom Come earth) ....they even came into our reality (as in the real world), but decided to go back.

After destroying everything they had a laugh, and then reset (yep) everything back to normal and promised each other to do it all over again 'next Tuesday.'

Let's see a celestial ....or any number of them ....do what Bat-mite and Mr Mxy... could do.

Now, add all the imps into the mix. From Mxy's wife to Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt Imp Genie, to all the various denizens of Mr Mxys and Bat-mite's dimension.

If 2 imps can play kid games with the entire multiverse (and even cross over to our reality), what about an entire dimension of them.

Curb stomp : 10/10 in favor of the imps. (Actually since it is imps we are talking about, it would be more like [b]infinity/nil) [/B]

I say the imps should win this. The celestials use m-bodys to travel through the universe but i wonder how powerful they are in their true form. Just like eternity gets punkd all the time but in his true form he should curbstomp almost anyone.

I did read what he wrote....actually what I posted was directed at what he wrote.

THE CELESTIALS

TRAITS:
The Celestials are an enigmatic assembly of extraterrestrial giants who manifest their energies inside of physical shells, appearing as immense suits of armor, most standing 2000 feet high. in these forms, they also access various tools and vessels to assist them in their duties. Each Celestial possesses vast cosmic powers of unknown limits. Celestials can destroy entire planets, and possibly stars as well. The Celestials are each defined by their function, and are outfitted with powers to aid them in their roles, such as Exitar the Executioner’s ability to destroy or recreate, and Arishem the Judge’s ability to judge races worthy or unworthy of existence.

Celestials seldom communicate verbally (although they did with Apocalypse), instead preferring avatars, sometimes creating Replicoids of mortals they have encountered and employing these Replicoids to speak on their behalf. Their power is such that few beings can engage them in combat, but they have created warriors of their own such as Godstalker to deal with their enemies.

The Celestials have a keen interest in the evolutionary forces of other races, and have experimented on countless species, usually visiting worlds in a series of four visits, forming an exploratory body called “the Host.” The Host are the best known of the Celestials, guided from their mothership by the One Above All (not to be confused with the supreme being in Marvel by the same name), and their purpose is determined the one who leads the Host on the planet: when Gammenon leads a Host, the Celestial’ interest is in exploration. Should Arishem the Judge lead a Host, their mission is to judge the entire planet in question.

Hmmm… Okay, I changed my mind. I’ll be more than 2 post. I’ll post this now and the rest after I grab something to eat.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Actually they can. They can destroy universes pretty easily as well. They can also time travel and traverse dimensions and destroy them just as easily. But they aren't a destructive race, so they don't do it. But in the Infinity Gauntlet saga, it was pretty evident how easy they could destroy a universe.

There's no evidence that the Celestials are multiversal/affecting the multiverse. Sure they cross between universes and different dimensions, but that's only crossing barriers, not destroying any of them. And it would take them a while to destroy a single universe also, let alone restart all of creation. Emperor Joker was playing around with the universe, restarting it back up with a blink of an eye. The Imps are beyond the DC Multiverse; it is even implied that they exist in Marvel.

Originally posted by Darksaint
There's no evidence that the Celestials are multiversal/affecting the multiverse. Sure they cross between universes and different dimensions, but that's only crossing barriers, not destroying any of them. And it would take them a while to destroy a single universe also, let alone restart all of creation. The Imps are beyond the DC Multiverse; it even implied that they exist in Marvel.

Why would they randomly start destroying universes? I never said they did. I said they could. They were using entire inhabited planets as basketballs for Christ's sake.

But if they were doing all that in the blink of an eye, then it's an entirely different case.

Originally posted by Mordum
I say the imps should win this. The celestials use m-bodys to travel through the universe but i wonder how powerful they are in their true form. Just like eternity gets punkd all the time but in his true form he should curbstomp almost anyone.
BTW, ALL of Marvel's entities use M-Bodies or Avatars including the Living Tribunal and Phoenix Force.

Abstract beings who have employed M-Bodies include Anomoly, Death, Epoch, Eternity, the In-Betweener, Infinity, Kronos, the LT, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Mistress Love, Oblivion, and Sire Hate.

In some cases, beings who do possesses a physical form have employed a M-body in order to put in an appearance somewhere without actually attending. Physical beings who have employed M-bodies include the Celestials, Galactus, the Gardener, Mephisto, the Stranger, Jack of Hearts, Moondragon, Photon, Quasar, Starfox, Thor and Tigra.

there has also been a suggested link between the powers of the imps and the anti-life equation . . . 😖hifty:

as for this battle, i'm still not sure. i think it stems from the name -- 5th dimension -- and what it is supposed to be. again, all cosmics can interact with higher levels of reality so there must be more to it. i don't know . . . 🙁

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE

But if they were doing all that in the blink of an eye, then it's an entirely different case.

It's one thing to destroy a universe, it's another to have the power to simply restart it and set everything back to normal again. That's what the Joker was doing when he had Mr. Mxy's power, literally in a blink of an eye. Also, the Celestials are not beyond the abstracts, and we know the Imp's are at least beyond Death itself; there was no concept of life and death when Joker ruled the universe.

The origins and true purpose of the Celestials can only be guessed at. They are known to have a special bond to Eternity, the embodiment of time, and have performed actions based upon Eternity’s will, but the scope of this relationship is unrevealed. At least one Celestial was born from the dying galaxy known as the “Black Galaxy,” but it is not known if this is typical of Celestial reproduction. (In the Earth X Universe, they reproduced by laying “eggs” within the core of planets, then empowering the lifeforms of that planet with the ability to protect the world - creating mutants - until the egg hatched and destroyed the planet in the process. Galactus fed on these “eggs” within planets.) Although the Celestials appear physically to be mere armor-clad giants, they exist beyond conventional understanding of space and time. They have also participated in many of the gatherings held by the Living Tribunal. At one time they created the race known as the Brethren from mere bacteria, sending them out to destroy races deemed unworthy, but they were finally driven from the Celestials’ service.

The young Celestials Devron the Experimenter and Gamiel the Manipulator were once responsible for monitoring Earth-78411 (“Dinosaur World”), but a petty argument between them escalated into pitting the Hulk and Devil Dinosaur against each other. The two were reassigned to monitor the Kree and Skrull races, and may have been involved with turning those races into mortal enemies.

The Celestials are most notorious for the Host’s four visits to Earth. The first host arrived one million years ago, releasing a swarm of Gatherer robots to collect DNA samples. The demonic Elder God Set sensed the purpose of the Celestials, knowing they would experiment upon primitive hominids. Set sent some of his semi-humanoid offspring, the Serpent Men, to curry favor with the Celestials to include them in their experiments, but the hominids saw through the Serpent Men and drove them off. When the Serpent Men attempted to appeal to the Host themselves, the Host destroyed them. Taking the hominids into their vessel, the Host the Host altered their evolutionary process so that three species sprang from the hominids rather than one. One species became known as the Eternals, endowed with cells charged with cosmic energy, which they learned to tap into over the ensuing centuries; another species was the Deviants, cursed with an unstable genetic code which caused them to mutate unpredictably with each generation; the final species was humanity itself, gifted with the potential for genetic mutation, a gift which would not become fully apparent until modern times.

The Celestials are known to have made similar experiments upon the Skrulls, Kree, Eyungs, and Gigantians, and likely many more. The Skrulls’ Deviant race ultimately overwhelmed the other two races, inspired by a Deviant from Armechadon named Tantalus, who caused Deviant uprisings on several worlds. The Deviant Skrulls are now the only Skrulls in the cosmos, save for one normal Skrull who escaped to Earth. The Kree Eternals are now extinct save for the warrior Ultimus. The Eyungs and gigantians destroyed each other in a war, but the Eyung Eternal Over-Mind still survives.

When the second Host returned to Earth around 18,000 B.C., the Deviants had become the dominant race on Earth, subjugating most of humanity, and ruling from the land Lemuria. The last outpost of human resistance in Atlantis had just been sunk in a volcanic eruption while attempting to drive out Lemurian invaders, and the area surrounding Atlantis was now in danger of further volcanic activity. When the Deviants beheld the Celestials’ mothership in the skies, they arrogantly opened fire on them. The Celestials responded by firing upon Lemuria, and, coupled with the preexisting instability, the entire continent of Mu sank, slaying millions of humans and Deviants. This event was known as the Great Cataclysm.

(Oops, I have to run out. I'll finish later.)

be a lot faster to just post the link to whatever site you're copying and pasting from . . .

I thought the fight between Batmite and Mxy was elseworlds??

And for the record, Spectre has scared imps off as well. With a mere threat. So i doubt they truly exist outside the Presences jurisdiction.

So many low/weird showings......Mxy was killed by Gog in an elseworlds, and he was created by mere skyfather level beings?!! Celestials hold skyfathers in contempt..... I don't see it as cut and dry either way.

it was worlds funnest comic book with mxy and batmite. i wasn't sure it was canon either. is it certain that it is?

interesting that gog killed an imp. i didn't kow that. but they are obviously still under the presence's purview.

i agree -- not completely cut and dry.