Balrog versus Sauron

Originally posted by ares834
But he was clearly leading a host of enemies when he created the wedge. It's not a similar feat. Infact the proof is there as Gothmog and another Balrog took down Fingon together.

Glaurung had a host of allies as well. And Gothmog was always leading the host. He was Morgoth's military commander after all.

The text says "Gothmog", not "Gothmog and" drove "a dark wedge" through the hosts of Men and Elves. And his fight with Fingon was one-on-one it was a ceremonial battle.

Gothmog had ripped through the army to face Fingon personally. Fingon himself was clearly depicted fighting Gothmog alone, it is only at the end when another Balrog wrapped its whip around Fingon's neck allowing Gothmog to kill Fingon.

Originally posted by ares834
Balrogs aren't massive giants. for that demon was double his stature)..."

Double his stature would mean between 12 and 20 ft which is consistent with the depiction of Durin's Bane in the movie. A spirit being about the height of a Troll, that's the definition of a giant.

Originally posted by ares834
By attacking the unprotected underside. I doubt Glaurung is going to flip over and let Gothmog have a good ol' swing.

Almost half his body is underside. The bottom of his neck his entire torso and stomach. And if he's flying at close range he becomes more susceptible to a single fatal blow from an axe. And besides, I doubt Dragons were as powerful as Ainur, since it is Ainur that created them.

Originally posted by ares834
Turin tried to attack Glaurung once but the dragon placed Turin under his spell thus he was helpless and defenseless. No way Turin could have beat him in a fair one on one fight. Heck he admits this in The Children of Hurin.

Using sneaky spells is hardly fair either.

They could be at a slightly mid-long range as well, due to the reach of the whip of fire.

Balrogs wernt only twice as high, they could be twice to three times bigger.

does it matter how BIG balrogs were???? its their MAGIC which gives them power. do u think sauron was BIG?

Originally posted by Allankles
Glaurung had a host of allies as well. And Gothmog was always leading the host. He was Morgoth's military commander after all.

The text says "Gothmog", not "Gothmog and" drove "a dark wedge" through the hosts of Men and Elves. And his fight with Fingon was one-on-one it was a ceremonial battle.

Gothmog had ripped through the army to face Fingon personally. Fingon himself was clearly depicted fighting Gothmog alone, it is only at the end when another Balrog wrapped its whip around Fingon's neck allowing Gothmog to kill Fingon.

Double his stature would mean between 12 and 20 ft which is consistent with the depiction of Durin's Bane in the movie. A spirit being about the height of a Troll, that's the definition of a giant.

Almost half his body is underside. The bottom of his neck his entire torso and stomach. And if he's flying at close range he becomes more susceptible to a single fatal blow from an axe.

And besides, I doubt Dragons were as powerful as Ainur, since it is Ainur that created them.

Using sneaky spells is hardly fair either.

Oh yeah, Galurung cant fly, he was made BEFORE the winged dragons...... But dude, you are making Glaurung sound wtf uber., He wasnt.

ive always thought that encalgaphon was much greater than glaurung. the later merely had psychic powers

I also agree. Ancalagon is most likely the most powerful of the Dragons.

Too bad his debut went the way of the Titanic.

leons a big debby downer its not changing the facts its changing the situation the wind isnt going to blow the same way for eternity and plus several of tolkiens books were written as if he himself was voicing it so ofcoarse its going to change thats what makes it more realistic in form

(and yes i didnt use periods capitals commas or any other crap)

Originally posted by Morgromir
leons a big debby downer its not changing the facts its changing the situation the wind isnt going to blow the same way for eternity and plus several of tolkiens books were written as if he himself was voicing it so ofcoarse its going to change thats what makes it more realistic in form

(and yes i didnt use periods capitals commas or any other crap)

Originally posted by ares834
Assuming Glorfindel is a normal sized elf double his stature would be roughly 12 feet, not 20. 20 would be more then thrice his stature. Also Gothmog was small enough to fit in a well and be tripped by a Elf, and Durin's Bane was able to fit through a doorway in Moria. And the Balrog in the move is far larger than 20 feet. His headd is almost the size of Gandalf.

That would put the Balrog between 12 - 18 ft (18 is close to 20 ft as a rough estimate) since "double" is also rough estimate. Even if we take 12 ft, that would make them giants.

I don't remember Durin's size, but he was no more than 3 times the height of Gandalf from what I remember, fairly consistent with "double" the height of Men and Elves.

And Moria had huge archways, it wasn't some normal sized complex. And fitting into a well only requires that your width can fit through it. It doesn't mean you have to fit in lengthwise.

Originally posted by ares834
First Glaurung isn't going to be "flying at close range". His unprotected undersides are going to be on the ground.

I forgot he was a ground Dragon. Doesn't much help his chances of avoiding a giant axe.

Originally posted by ares834
No mere Ainur created the Dragons. Even more we don't know what dragons are. However theu have spirits and are therefore no normal beasts, more than likely they are bodies filled with a maiar similar to the great eagles and Werewolves.

Dragons according to Tolkien were bred by Morgoth. Glaurung was said to have been bread probably from a terrestial beast and then corrupted and infused with sapience by Morgoth. So I doubt a terrestial being is going to be more powerful than an Ainur.

Originally posted by ares834
Sneaky spells? It was hardly sneaky and using spells in a middle of a fight is perfectly fair.

By sneaky I don't mean unfair, it just means non-straightforward.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Sauron lost in a fight in a giant dog (Huan). A Balrog beats him everytime. Also I do not believe the Balrog in LOTR was weak just not the best. Sauron inHua the LOTR is weaker than his original form because he does not have the ring and would definitely lose because of it.

Sauron is immortal as proved by the drowning of Numenor Im pretty sure none of the balrogs had that ability I also read in a post that Sauron didnt lead any armies into battle which is untrue"Sauron greatest & most terrible of the servant ofMorgoth came against Orodreth,he took Minas Tirith by assault"i

Originally posted by leonheartmm
if i remember correctly. in the fellowship of the ring, it was stated clearly that the balrog in moria, aka durin's bane was one of power to be feared second only to the dark lord sauron. dont remember who it was who said it, either gandalf or the fellowship when talking to galadriel, and he was defeated in the end by gandalf and gandalf admits and is stated many times to be weaker than sauron. also being descended from a maier or valar doesnt necessarily make u stronger than an elf. seeing as thingol has already slain a balrog. and the feats of feanor are by far superior to sauron , even with the one ring. id also recon that fingolfin was greater than sauron even with the one ring and earendil cud also be compareable. lets also remember that the creating of the sylmarils is
feat that no valar cud replicate.

id say that sauron WITHOUT the one ring cud lose to gothmog 4/10 but WITH the one ring, i dont think so.

Your grammar sucks so much. Your English is so bad, and it's making me so sad.

Dat necro

And Sauron stomps

We've already settled this... Gothmog beats Suaron in a one v one h2h battle.

If by "we've already settled this" you mean you've claimed as such while also showing a distinct lack of understanding of the source material, sure. If you mean we have come to some mutual understanding based on the concrete evidence then certainly not.

Originally posted by ares834
If by "we've already settled this" you mean you've claimed as such while also showing a distinct lack of understanding of the source material, sure. If you mean we have come to some mutual understanding based on the concrete evidence then certainly not.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've already settled this... Gothmog beats Suaron in a one v one h2h battle.