Of all the smackdowns I've had the pleasure of delivering, I take special pleasure in laying them down on you, Lucien*. It's cute and amusing when you squirm to cleverly shift your contentions and move around your goalposts, to cover up your flinging more logical fallacies and incoherent arguments than your typical sunday pastor.. I didn't say "concession accepted" in jest; your final rebuttal literally conceded every one of your original contentions, while you kept intact your narcissistic ego by not admitting defeat. Gotta admit, it was pretty smooth 🙂
*granted, Tempest deserves 18% of the credit.
EDIT: especially your whole "you're thinking too logically, think with your heart!" backtracking, right after you gladly tried defending your argument from said logical standpoint.
I kid, of course. That was a fantastic argument, and you're really smart. Master Han idolized you so much in particular, he adopted your Joker avatar to carry on the torch.
^but the thematic implication that there is some genetic lottery is not entailed by a mandate of heaven. Diaz is objecting to a deterministic/predictable mode of power transfer. Instead, OT allows for a "Jedi Knight, like my father before me" speech to carry the weight of personal struggle and sacrifice, instead of genetic recombination.
I am not at all a fan of the Calvinistic idea that a select subset of the Galaxy is exclusively capable of Force manipulation. What of the "Squibs" of the Matukai; are they just genetically SOL? No. There should be a "hard-work" escape clause for the otherwise Force blind.
And there is, if we look at Scout. She wasn't gifted with many algae in her cells, but she still managed an intense and personal Force experience after the fight with Asajj. (YDR is a great book.)
That's still unsupported by the films, including the original trilogy.
Otherwise Luke and Leia are irrelevant; all the Rebellion would need to topple the Empire is a number of dedicated, disciplined volunteers characterized by a respectable morality.
It makes far more sense that Luke and Leia cornered the market on some confluence of potent genetics than the idea that Luke and Leia cornered the market on imagination and good character.
The Force as an energy that anyone can tap into is unsupported by the films. Diaz's article is well-written and raises some cool ideas (some of which I agree with), but the notion that his interpretation has its origins in the originality trilogy is total bullshit.
Originally posted by ZampanóI had forgot to mention it before, but I was thinking of the LotR line from Aragorn: "The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness." Aragorn isn't talking about he and Isildur's shared tendency for hypertension, he's talking about a weakness of character. Inheritance of the soul, not DNA.
Something like the mandate of Heaven comes to mind. Just because it is hereditary does not mean that it would be genetic.
I don't know what Lucas always always intended when he had the whole "strong in the family" idea, but frankly I don't care. The OT never expressed to me an inheritance of genetic tendencies toward the Force, it expressed an inheritance of personality. A genetic link to the Force was never even a possibility. Even if some did it interpret it as such (and hey go for it, I'll not be the one to tell you what you took away from a film), the line merely states the Skywalker's particular inclination toward the Force. It didn't preclude anyone else from the Force itself.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Aragorn was waxing poetic. His character deficits do not owe to blood relation to a flawed ancestor.Meanwhile, the importance of the hereditary relationship between Anakin and Luke was treated as a very literal thing.
Originally posted by Zampanó
Diaz is objecting to a deterministic/predictable mode of power transfer. Instead, OT allows for a "Jedi Knight, like my father before me" speech to carry the weight of personal struggle and sacrifice, instead of genetic recombination.
Well, it's sort of like what Machiavelli said...skill is useful only if opportunity, whether by chance or your making, exists. So while Luke's Force sensitivity, already implied in the OT to be a matter of nature, didn't by default make him a Jedi, it certainly was a prerequisite.
I am not at all a fan of the Calvinistic idea that a select subset of the Galaxy is exclusively capable of Force manipulation. What of the "Squibs" of the Matukai; are they just genetically SOL? No. There should be a "hard-work" escape clause for the otherwise Force blind.
Agreed. Sadly, the OT seems to suggest that the ways of the Force are restricted in such a manner; note that none of the protagonists or antagonists outside of the Jedi and Sith seem to demonstrate even the slightest hint of Force ability, and Leia was considered to be the only hope after Luke.
And there is, if we look at Scout. She wasn't gifted with many algae in her cells, but she still managed an intense and personal Force experience after the fight with Asajj. (YDR is a great book.)
I'm certain it is, but it's not from the OT, is it?
Originally posted by Zampanó
Oh that is so not the case. Numenor was cast down because of its pride, Arnor was cast down because of its pride (The Numenorians allowed the normals to revolt, basically) and Gondor was waning. Boromir failed because of his pride. There is a very real metaphysical doom that is tied to the bloodline of Kings in Middle Earth.
Yeah, but to play devil's advocate, hubris is hardly an unusual trait amongst royalty; that various kings got too full of themselves doesn't necessarily suggest a "pride" gene. And we see that Aragorn and Faramir do not share this problem.
So now "unfollowing" someone on twitter is news? The youth of today are little bitches, man.