The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Nephthys3,287 pages

What someone should do, is email someone and ask about this whole "the Force always pwns non-force users" thing.

I must say I'm extremely disappointed with the way BioWare dealt with Ashara. A Jedi who didn't fall to the dark side but still kills Jedi and whichever enemy Nox kills but doesn't agree with dark side dialogue options agreed to become a Sith Lord's apprentice? WTF?

It's a bit problematic, but it is kind of explained: Ashara is a coward, and REALLY afraid of dying (as I recall one of her lines at low health has her super freak out). You can bully her into joining you easily. And she isn't a great Jedi to begin with and in general has a weak, insecure personality. Also theres a whole thing about a holocron corrupting her if you pick certain options but meh.

Besides, I think she admits she has fallen to the darkside later.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What someone should do, is email someone and ask about this whole "the Force always pwns non-force users" thing.

umad

Also, I dimly recall Ashara's fall is really contrived.

No, it would just be good to get some input on it from people actually attached to star wars.

Isn't there a line in coruscant nights that says nonforce users can't compete with force users?

No.

Because that would be really annoying if true.

Though if there is, eh, I guess TOR retconned that idea. Also Boba Fett, Grievous, Cad Bane, HK-47 and Durge.

I don't see why it's annoying. Characters shouldn't be like merely because they are the best evah. Han Solo is an example, so is nearly the entire cast of Medstar, Chewie and T3. Your angst over some elite muggles not being stronger than Jedi or Sith of note seems really bizarre given how many canon examples we have of good without bein uber like the above.

Originally posted by Zampanó
Catching fire is good.

👆

I wasn't a big fan of the first film, but damn this one was good.

Do you guys think it makes sense to be a Pureblood Sith as an Inquisitor? Thinking of changing from Human to Sith, but I'm not one to ignore common sense, unlike BioWare.

Is there really a debate going on about whether non-force users can stand up to bloodlusted force users ITT?

Extraordinary non-force users should be able to take average force users out, with a brains > brawn approach, IMO, other than that.. Force Users just have the advantage.

As for the whole Ashara thing, it felt very poorly done. considering the Inquisitor is the 'Palpatine' archetype, which they styled it after, turning someone to the dark side should just have happened.. Instead it's underplayed and she's following you around but still follows the jedi teachings? Le what?

I much prefer the apprentices you get for the other classes, on the Warrior and Consular.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I don't see why it's annoying. Characters shouldn't be like merely because they are the best evah. Han Solo is an example, so is nearly the entire cast of Medstar, Chewie and T3. Your angst over some elite muggles not being stronger than Jedi or Sith of note seems really bizarre given how many canon examples we have of good without bein uber like the above.

Dude, Han and Chewie really aren't among the best ever.

I just think its dumb and irksome to just ignore any showings the very best non-force sensitives have against some elite Force users, just because you don't think it should be possible. Its blatant fanon and its annoying to just ignore feats because you don't like them.

I don't see you saying Nox beating Paladius without the Force is PIS btw, even though its the same thing with Paladius having TK and Nox not.

So, anyone have a say on the Human or Pureblood decision?

If its gonna bother you, don't do it. You could always say your Pureblood was a victim of SITH POLITICZ but go with your gut I say.

Also, doesn't it cost a lot to switch species?

Yeah but I wanted your opinion cause people say it doesn't make much sense to be a Pureblood as an Inquisitor. I have thought it through a lot and I just wanted to know what you guys thought.

Yeah, it does... 720 cc's.

For aesthetic purposes I picked Pureblood. IMO, none of the other races fit what I have in mind. Purebloods look wicked and they have tradition and history behind their motivations. Some pure Sith even identify with you in conversations, so you get the solidarity appeal too. Ideally, Purebloods wouldn't be slaves but power plays make things happen. Most of the Dark Council is human and the blood of the true Sith is running very thin, so you could argue it that way. In the end, just try to have fun.

As for what Neph is saying on Force users, again I don't have to ignore common sense because plot induced exceptions exist. Palladius is not a valid example, because we have zero idea of how the fight went down. Nox could have been ragdolled and Khem beat the shit out of Palladius canonically, we don't know. It's not a sign of strength on behalf of the defender to be fortunate because of selective use of an otherwise game changing power on tthe part of the attacker. Again, if Nihilus opted not to use his Nom Drain on an opponent because Plot Induced Stupidity, we would not argue he would do the same thing in a versus match. Blax brought up a good point, we assume fighters are bloodlusted meaning they are out to kill, not toy with each other. In any situation where a Force user has demonstrated the means to kill non-users and opted not to for personal reasons such as arrogance, restraint, bushido, having fun etc. we would not say this is indicative of awesomeness of behalf of the other party.

Your obtuse decision to chalk it up to "I don't like it" is strawmanning. I -like- non powerful characters and I don't hate them if they when because the other guy is too arrogant or stupid to defeat them. Obi-Wan out-thought Anakin in a sense. Sidious out-thought Yoda. Plots demand exceptions be made so the conclusions we want come to pass. Hypothetical versus matches are not plots, so applying the same standards if and only if it suits your bias is silly.

And fyi, I am enjoying my Imperial Agent playthru more than any of the Force users.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
As for what Neph is saying on Force users, again I don't have to ignore common sense because plot induced exceptions exist. Palladius is not a valid example, because we have zero idea of how the fight went down. Nox could have been ragdolled and Khem beat the shit out of Palladius canonically, we don't know. It's not a sign of strength on behalf of the defender to be fortunate because of selective use of an otherwise game changing power on tthe part of the attacker. Again, if Nihilus opted not to use his Nom Drain on an opponent because Plot Induced Stupidity, we would not argue he would do the same thing in a versus match. Blax brought up a good point, we assume fighters are bloodlusted meaning they are out to kill, not toy with each other. In any situation where a Force user has demonstrated the means to kill non-users and opted not to for personal reasons such as arrogance, restraint, bushido, having fun etc. we would not say this is indicative of awesomeness of behalf of the other party.

Your obtuse decision to chalk it up to "I don't like it" is strawmanning. I -like- non powerful characters and I don't hate them if they when because the other guy is too arrogant or stupid to defeat them. Obi-Wan out-thought Anakin in a sense. Sidious out-thought Yoda. Plots demand exceptions be made so the conclusions we want come to pass. Hypothetical versus matches are not plots, so applying the same standards if and only if it suits your bias is silly.

And fyi, I am enjoying my Imperial Agent playthru more than any of the Force users.

Quick bulletpoints:

- We don't know how the fight went down in any of the Champions fights either so wtf? Also, Paladius credits Nox with defeating him, not Khem Val. He says 'you are the strongest I've ever faced' after he loses. Hell, you'd think that if it really was so easy, Paladius could break Nox's neck while their talking even after he's been 'defeated'.

- We're not talking about anyone 'opting out' or 'toying' with anyone. The people the Champ fights do not toy with him, they try to kill him. And they lose. You really think Tormen fights with a hand down his pants while he's losing? No, he'd try everything to kill him. You don't hold back when you're losing. Arrogance, restraint and bushido go out of the window in that situation. And this is at the end of the game after the Champ has beaten tons of Jedi and Tormen knows that. Theres no reason for Tormen not to try and kill the Champion like he did the people in the video I posted. And theres no evidence that he chose not to use his TK as effectively as he could since the fight happens in gameplay. Again, if it was that easy, he's snap the Champs neck when they talk after he's lost.

Hell, the Champion beats Kellian Jarro and his apprentice, but lets the apprentice go. Later, he fights her and kills her. You really think the apprentice would hold back after seeing the Champ kill her master?

- I didn't mean it in that sense, I meant it in the sense that you don't think its possible for a non-force user to beat a force user who is fighting seriously and refuse to accept evidence or arguments that they can.

- The Agent is awesome. Great storyline. 👆

Rant aside, I have to say that playing as a blaster wielding character is a lot more fun than being a Force user. OT used to be like 90% muggles with guns and a couple Force users; PT is the reverse. I actually liked Jango, and in The Cestus Deception you get some humanizing of his clones, which even the Jedi treat sometimes as less than human.

Also, cover mechanic ftw.

Is Nox and Kallig the same person?