Originally posted by ZampanóI can agree, but you can take it too far. Not every representation of a minority or a gay person in media should be unequivocally positive; people are more complicated than that, they can be severely flawed, and they're people too. Some will look at any negatively portrayed character, and if they happen to be gay or black then it's immediately offensive.
I see that. By "positive media representation" I mean the idea that it is important to show minorities and people of color in positions of power/success because otherwise it become "common knowledge" that all [x] are destined to become [y]. So for example putting a woman (Uhura!) in an important position on the Enterprise in Star Trek (which was a bold step back in the 60s) showed that the future doesn't belong only to white men.
There should be equal parts positive and negative portrayals, all of which tempered by good writing and characterization (Which is to say, even an objectively evil character should still be written well, like I dunno, Ser Gregor Clegane).
Originally posted by NemeBro
I can agree, but you can take it too far. Not every representation of a minority or a gay person in media should be unequivocally positive; people are more complicated than that, they can be severely flawed, and they're people too. Some will look at any negatively portrayed character, and if they happen to be gay or black then it's immediately offensive.There should be equal parts positive and negative portrayals, all of which tempered by good writing and characterization (Which is to say, even an objectively evil character should still be written well, like I dunno, Ser Gregor Clegane).
There's a progression that minorities tend to go through in mainstream media, more or less- First they're portrayed badly. Then they tend to get some portrayals where they're victims or otherwise used tragically, normally in pretty minor roles. Then people start doing them positively but 2-dimensionally, with whatever they are being their main character trait. And then, only after you've had some established good [x], do you get the full spectrum.
Gay people are transitioning from the next to the last to the final stage. They no longer have to be, "and [x] is gay, and that's good! That's also their main character trait!".
Transsexual people, you get a mix of them being portrayed badly, or them showing up as victims with a note on how tragic it is that they were killed for being different.
The bad person part was a joke, and please don't lump me in with the idiots who were sending her rape threats, lol.
Yea, by 'that's the thing,' I mean, "I agree with your sarcasm" 🙂
I stand by "bad ideas" though. For a feminist, some of her opinions are actually oddly sexist.Like, for example, she doesn't view Mattie(sp?) from True Grit as a feminist character because she "promotes the masculine qualities of revenge and violence rather than feminine qualities of cooperation peace".
Yea, I'd disagree with her on that. Though I'd also argue she has positive ones (at least, the videos I saw of her were fairly good). There's a mix, people don't have to be perfect to have plenty of legitimate points.
Originally posted by Q99Yea, I'd disagree with her on that. Though I'd also argue she has positive ones (at least, the videos I saw of her were fairly good). There's a mix, people don't have to be perfect to have plenty of legitimate points.
We can't all be as emotionally dead as you Beefy-sama.
Anyway, the argument over there concerned someone getting mocked for getting sexually assaulted while he launched into extremely racist rants. In the case of the former, that kind of thing obviously isn't just words. I think you'll see why I thought that was a dumb response, were it a response.
Man, I'm glad we're all so civil over here.
Originally posted by Q99That's true, but to be honest life is too short to watch thirty minute videos made by an alleged feminist who actively supports gender roles.
Yea, I'd disagree with her on that. Though I'd also argue she has positive ones (at least, the videos I saw of her were fairly good). There's a mix, people don't have to be perfect to have plenty of legitimate points.
Would you take a Civil Rights activist that supported segregation seriously?
It's just so frankly jarring that a feminist would be so foolish as to support one of the thing her movement is supposed to be fighting against.
Originally posted by Q99
There's a progression that minorities tend to go through in mainstream media, more or less- First they're portrayed badly. Then they tend to get some portrayals where they're victims or otherwise used tragically, normally in pretty minor roles. Then people start doing them positively but 2-dimensionally, with whatever they are being their main character trait. And then, only after you've had some established good [x], do you get the full spectrum.Gay people are transitioning from the next to the last to the final stage. They no longer have to be, "and [x] is gay, and that's good! That's also their main character trait!".
Transsexual people, you get a mix of them being portrayed badly, or them showing up as victims with a note on how tragic it is that they were killed for being different.
I forgot that this was to me and am too lazy to edit it in.
I'm not sure these points really refute what I said, though I am also not sure they were intended to.
Anita isn't really great for what she's actually done, but for the fact that she tried in the first place and the backlash she received. That backlash is far more of a compelling argument than anything shes said.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You assumed that he was referring to the comic versus shit, when there was no evidence that this was the case.Just admit that you goofed.
No, I didn't. That's why I asked him if he was.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anita isn't really great for what she's actually done, but for the fact that she tried in the first place and the backlash she received. That backlash is far more of a compelling argument than anything shes said.
I dunno. If you say something that's incredibly stupid, it doesn't really make you a martyr when you receive a bunch of backlash.
I mean, I don't really consider the Westboro Baptist fellows to be martyrs because tell them to kill themselves after all the dumb shit they do.
As I recall, the backlash occurred before she even really said anything. She received thousands of death and rape threats purely because she started a kickstarter to discuss feminism in regards to games.
And I'm not saying she's a martyr, but the level of misogynistic hate leveled at her is way beyond whats to be expected and is pretty revealing. Having bad opinions shouldn't create backlash of that caliber.