The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by MS Warehouse3,287 pages

Here's a simple breakdown.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Nazis-considered-to-be-right-wing-parties

NG, I only had to read the first sentence of your college student link to gauge this guy's left leanings+whatever confirmation bias his essay is. Screaming about Fox News and the Tea Party isn't how you start a convincing essay, it's what you do after you put your tin foil hat on.

Here are two links from credible sources, not someone who just completed his intro to art history final.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/372197/nazis-still-socialists-jonah-goldberg
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/16/jason-villalba/jason-villalba-said-bernie-sanders-democratic-soci/

I think Beni thinks the word "conservative" means the same thing across all political ideologies. Lol

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I think Beni thinks the word "conservative" means the same thing across all political ideologies. Lol
😕

From your second link: We consulted historians and books, finding the Nazi party’s full name was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. That name was adopted in 1920; before that, the party had been the German Workers’ Party.

But there was little socialist about the party’s platform or Hitler’s actions once he acceded to leading Germany in the early 1930s.

By phone and email, Rice University historian Peter Caldwell told us the key word in the party’s name was "national" and the party’s focus was on building nationalism — a focus ultimately reflected in Hitler’s twisted vision of cleansing the country of residents, especially Jews, not considered of pure German blood. While socialists on the left celebrate democracy, Caldwell said, the word has a different meaning on the right — in this instance, he said, excluding people who are not part of the nation, hence rejecting Jews and communists and, in pre-World War II Germany, democracy itself.

Caldwell said the "misleading" tweet suggesting an alignment between Sanders’ professed democratic socialism and Hitler’s party would "have Hitler turning in his grave, wherever the grave is. The Nazis loudly opposed democracy, the first and foremost thing." Also, he said, "they were opposed to emancipating the workers, giving them the rights to vote and to organize" in unions.

Similarly, Barbara Miller Lane, a Bryn Mawr College professor and co-editor of a compilation of Nazi ideology before 1933, said by email: "The Nazis were NOT ‘democratic socialists,’ whatever that means. The Nazis were never democrats and never real socialists either." While there was a longstanding and distinguished Social Democratic Party in Germany from the 1870 to the 1920s, Lane wrote, the Nazis fought against it, and after 1933 imprisoned its leaders.

Lane added: "The Nazis opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Aryan socialism.’ This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."

Lmao


NG, I only had to read the first sentence of your college student link to gauge this guy's left leanings+whatever confirmation bias his essay is. Screaming about Fox News and the Tea Party isn't how you start a convincing essay, it's what you do after you put your tin foil hat on.

I didn't provide a link to anything, but that's besides the point; the bias is obvious when it's mentioned that the Nazi's being "racist" makes them a right-wing party.

If we're adopting a political diamond--which is as far as I can tell the most simple and accurate chart of the political spectrum--then Nazism doesn't fall under the left or right wings at all.

Also, I notice that same quote I found earlier was also in that article, but credited to someone else. That leaves me somewhat uneasy. Which of them actually said it?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If we're adopting a political diamond--which is as far as I can tell the most simple and accurate chart of the political spectrum--then Nazism doesn't fall under the left or right wings at all.
Yeah that's truly actually, but political spectrums really have little to do with my original point.

You guys really, really shouldn't be arguing with Beefy about politics. Trust me on this, you will gouge your eyes out before making him concede to anything or be remotely reasonable.

You speak from experience Neph? 🙂

Lets just say the abortion debate was not resolved.

That's because Neph doesn't understand much so arguing with him about anything outside of comics/star wars is like arguing with an infant.

If we're adopting a political diamond--which is as far as I can tell the most simple and accurate chart of the political spectrum--then Nazism doesn't fall under the left or right wings at all.

That's my point.

Lane added: "The Nazis opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Aryan socialism.’ This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."

Also my point. Not only is the Nazi classification inconsistent, it doesn't fit the traditional viewpoints of conservatives or socialists.

@Beni

True, I think the discussion's derailed from the original point for a while now. Half of my responses are being directed at the links more than you.

Returning to my original point, calling Trump a Nazi is as much a mislabel as calling Bernie a communist. They're not really politically aligned (not that Trump is really politically aligned with anyone, given how all over the place he is), and their similar tactics you mentioned aren't exactly uncommon. You're essentially fearmongering using the word "Nazi" as a catalyst rather than making a legitimate argument on policy, just like people do with Bernie. It's hypocritical, unhelpful, and unwanted.

Also, what Beefy just said. ^

Yeah that's not what I meant when I said this discussion has been derailed, I mean that the political alignments that you continue to refer to, have nothing to do with this discussion. Extreme nationalism, racism and the kind of other rhetoric and tactics Trump is employing that I raised are not bound to any one political position, and could just as easily be adopted by Bernie as anyone else. So to accuse me of making just as poor a comparison as between Bernie and communism is a moot point and a red herring.

That said did I ever really intend this as a legitimate argument? No. This isn't a legitimate discussion, this is a dumb mudslinging contest about whose continent is better. Not that the aspects of Trump's perspective and tactics I raised aren't legit points for denouncing him as an atrocious politician, whatever his actual policies maybe.

As for this sort of stuff being "common", not in my country and if it is in yours have my deepest condolences and my prayers go out to you. 🙂

Heh, true, I misread.

But yeah, being a Nazi does have implications outside of being flashy, racist, and a nationalist. 😛

And... Really? Politicians don't constantly ramble about how amazing their country is in the UK? I find it hard to believe that's even possible. 😕

Tbh, I have never seen or heard a single politician from my country talk about "making the UK great again" or anything in that vein, and if one did he'd probably get the weirdest looks and be promptly torn apart.

There's not much to make great again after 1776.

Yeah the UK is drastically less nationalistic compared to America. We already did the Empire thing, thanks. No one talks about how great we are because everyone would just roll their eyes, just like we do when we see you guys doing it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah the UK is drastically less nationalistic compared to America. We already did the Empire thing, thanks. No one talks about how great we are because everyone would just roll their eyes, just like we do when we see you guys doing it.

You've had your few hundred years. It's our time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah the UK is drastically less nationalistic compared to America. We already did the Empire thing, thanks. No one talks about how great we are because everyone would just roll their eyes, just like we do when we see you guys doing it.
👆

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You've had your few hundred years. It's our time.

Exhibit A: 🙄

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tbh, I have never seen or heard a single politician from my country talk about "making the UK great again" or anything in that vein, and if one did he'd probably get the weirdest looks and be promptly torn apart.

but what about ur ego

how can you have country without ego

Cynicism and self hate, that's what drives us. 🙂