Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
True. But it is not always that character defining is it?For example, and this is a general characterization mind you so don't take it too seriously. An atheist could be an incredibly giving person, selfless and just almost saint like. While someone who believes in a certain religion could be a murderer, rapist, etc.
A philosophical outlook doesn't make a person good or bad. There are several factors to consider, don't you think?
Not all atheist and religious people are the same, I'd agree with the moral philosophy of some of my atheist friends more than those of some religious people. Philosophy isn't only whether or not you believe in God.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
There are several factors to consider but a person's ideological stances are pretty significant.
Thats different from philosophy but i get your point.
They determine how people vote, what they view as right and wrong etc.
But again, there are numerous examples when the opposite happens. Just because someone comes from a religious family doesn't mean or determine that they follow the same philosophy or ideology by association. Likewise does those hold true for the odd atheist.
Not all atheist and religious people are the same, I'd agree with the moral philosophy of some of my atheist friends more than those of some religious people. Philosophy isn't only whether or not you believe in God.
Thats where you're wrong. existentialism is the belief of a person being able to determine their own destiny, yes? Well that conflicts with the belief of god. Because if this god is all powerful and works in "mysterious ways" that manipulate our lives then humanity cannot by definition have the capacity to determine it's own destiny, ergo we have no free will. However if we are to actually believe in existentialism, and we as humans are capable of deciding our fate then god cannot be, by definition, all powerful or all knowing. Thus this god cannot exist.
Philosophy and religion often come hand and hand. This is merely one example of many.
Edit: This isn't meant as an attack or an insult, dmb. I am simply putting forth an example of when religion and philosophy directly coincide.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Heh. I remember seeing DMB's posts on the "moral compass of an atheist" thread on CV's off-topic section. One among only a few posters whose comments in that thread weren't mindbogglingly stupid.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Heh. I remember seeing DMB's posts on the "moral compass of an atheist" thread on CV's off-topic section. One among only a few posters whose comments in that thread weren't mindbogglingly stupid.
I'm curious, was the purpose of the thread to find out if we atheist had a moral compass at all? Or whether we were more inclined to commit heinous acts?
@yourothercomment.
I understand that Philosophy is in no way largely dependant on religion and vice versa, however philosophy and religion do often come hand and hand. While philosophy isn't just about religion it has often raised questions that put the prospect of religion in doubt. I hope I'm making sense lol
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And not everyone who belongs to the same religion has the same philosophical outlook.
I never stated otherwise. You are the one saying that ones ideological/Philosophical stances determine everything they do, thus generalizing most everyone. While I argue that people can have an outlook that differs from the idealogy and philosophy they grew up with. So we're essentially in agreement, yes?
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I never stated otherwise. You are the one saying that ones ideological/Philosophical stances determine everything they do, thus generalizing most everyone. While I argue that people can have an outlook that differs from the idealogy and philosophy they grew up with. So we're essentially in agreement, yes?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I never said that it was the sole determinant of everything but it is a considerable factor. And I also am referring to a person's current philosophical stance, not the one they may have had in the past.
Clarify next time. Although i suppose I should thank you for this dicussion since i was incredibly bored. I should thank you, but i won't 🙂 🙂
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Clarify next time.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
There are several factors to consider but a person's ideological stances are pretty significant.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Although i suppose I should thank you for this dicussion since i was incredibly bored. I should thank you, but i won't 🙂 🙂
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And not everyone who belongs to the same religion has the same philosophical outlook.
Indeed.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah I never understood the confusion of how people think atheists don't have a moral compass. Even a literalist inerrantist interpretation of the Bible directly states that we have an intrinsic moral compass.
It's a form of arrogance/ignorance, no doubt.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I'm curious, was the purpose of the thread to find out if we atheist had a moral compass at all? Or whether we were more inclined to commit heinous acts?
It was a question on how atheists could possibly have a moral compass if they weren't motivated by a belief in the afterlife.
Personally, I think that if a desire for reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell) is all that motivates you, then you're no better than a businessman motivated purely by profit. I mean, if you're going to help someone, you should at least feel that what you're doing is just and good, and not just so that you have a chance of a luxurious afterlife. It's an entirely personal form of motivation.
I understand that Philosophy is in no way largely dependant on religion and vice versa, however philosophy and religion do often come hand and hand. While philosophy isn't just about religion it has often raised questions that put the prospect of religion in doubt. I hope I'm making sense lol
Yep. But philosophy predates religion and in fact probably gave rise to it. And actually, I think religion is based entirely on philosophy, so it is dependent in that sense. Without philosophy, I don't believe religion could exist.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Personally, I think that if a desire for reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell) is all that motivates you, then you're no better than a businessman motivated purely by profit. I mean, if you're going to help someone, you should at least feel that what you're doing is just and good, and not just so that you have a chance of a luxurious afterlife. It's an entirely personal form of motivation.
Exactly. Most of the bloodsucking religious types are only looking for a free ticket upstairs. I am a Christian in a loose sense, but when I do something good it isn't because I fear the afterlife, it's because, whether there is a God or not, it was the right thing to do, the honourable thing.
If you wanna do something good, do it for the sake of it being good, not because you wanna get rewarded after death.
There's no way of even knowing if an afterlife exists, so it seems a bit fruitless to spend your efforts to be on the good side of what amounts to a shared fantasy.
In all honesty, I think that an afterlife-oriented moral compass is less moral than the moral compasses of the "godless Jewish atheists".
What do you guys think about veganism?
I just find it perplexing and at times outright laughable that vegans act like they're morally enlightened and that we need to join them "up there" because we're still a barbaric race of meat-eating savages.
Unfortunately, that's the case with plenty of social movements these days. Once somebody joins them, they think they've been enlightened and that we're still living in the dark ages; hence the need to educate (or purge) others. And the big shame is that most of these movements incite more cancer than the average restaurant owner on Kitchen Nightmares, yet so many of them seem to carry inherent superiority complexes of some sort.
On the flip side, it's always entertaining to see people begin to lose debates on similar issues and then resort to desperate Hitler analogies that fail to make a modicum of sense.
Oh, I love the Ad Hitlerum thing! But yeah... a shame nowadays is that the moment when people see a new viewpoint, they cling to it like a malnourished baby to it's mother's breast.
In an attempt to show off how "open-minded" and "truly correct/moral" they are, they turn into close-minded, downright pitiable human beings. A lot of flat-Earthers, for example, who actually use The Simpsons as proof of their argument.
I also hate conspiracy theorists. There is definitely something going on, sure, but so much of these guys are just suffering from apophenia, trying to blame all their problems on one massive conspiracy and act like they're "the enlightened" 'cause they think Lady Gaga's song Perfect Illusion is about her loving the Devil... somehow.