Originally posted by Nephthys
Absolute rights and wrongs don't exist (in the moral sense), but degrees of logical R's and W's do.
Thus the problem with your belief. This doesn't make any sort of sense at all; you're telling me that right and wrong do exist, but magically stop at some sort of barrier or border so as to not slip into the territory of complete? That there are always shades of grey?
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Telling someone good night isn't stating that the night is good, it's wishing the other person that they have a good night whatever a good night would be in there definition.So I can see where you were going with that, but it was a bad example. Douche.
[Angry moral relativist] Who are you to say what he did and did not mean?
And thou art an even bigger douche!!1!oneone![/angry moral relativist]
Originally posted by Nephthys
And you assume that I'm okay with the current legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol, why? Ban both I say.
No. I was merely implying that you're fighting for an already lost cause. Nobody will ban alcohol and tobacco and as long as those two drugs are allowed, you could happily legalize anything else too.
The side-effects would be far lower crime rates and the total destruction of 90 % of all organized crime on the globe, including some terrorist networks - as most of them gain their money from selling illegal drugs.
Which, apparently, means that I could - technically - use your argument that a government has to protect people against you. Not that I would do so, because I don't think that this is the task of a government.
Originally posted by GideonMy problem comes with him proclaiming the word of the Bible or Torah or God to be a "universal" truth that applies to each and every human on the planet. I don't take issue with following the laws established by society, draw as some may do from traditional religious principles, and I obviously won't pretend that I don't have my own moral code or that I don't privately judge others by how close or far they are from living up to it, but I won’t be forced to adhere to certain ideas just because a religious text says so. Likewise, I don't [think I] try to force other people to think or act the way I do, I just try to get them to see where I'm coming from.
There's the crux of the problem.If Darth Sexy implied or communicated to you that you should subscribe to the religion itself, he's irretrievably wrong. But the fact that you do not follow Judaism or Christianity doesn't mean that their "rules" are any less valid or nonapplicable.
^ That wasn't typed up in one sitting, so of it's disjointed or unclear let me know.
Originally posted by Eminence
My problem comes with him proclaiming the word of the Bible or Torah or God to be a "universal" truth that applies to each and every human on the planet.
Then that is where he and I differ. I truly believe, from the bottom of my heart, that some things are universal; not because of religion but because of the fact that if society follows those rules, we wouldn't have nearly as many problems.
Thou shalt not kill is one of Ten Commandments. I don't necessarily believe in that strictly because it's in the Bible, but because I believe it's a valid case. Nor do I deal in absolutes all the time, either. I do not condemn the man or woman who takes the life of another in self defense or, in cases, the defense of others. I do not condemn the military putting a bullet in between the eyes of a terrorist nor, actually, do I condemn the Nazi soldier who killed in Allied trooper in combat. There are cases where rules should be looked at.
Edit: Therein, I side slightly with Darth Sexy. There are some rules, truths, and laws that I consider to be universal based on the fact that there can be no credible argument made for the contrary and that, if these rules were followed, the world would be a better place.
I don't take issue with following the laws established by society, draw as some may do from traditional religious principles, and I obviously won't pretend that I don't have my own moral code or that I don't privately judge others by how close or far they are from living up to it, but I won’t be forced to adhere to certain ideas just because a religious text says so. Likewise, I don't [think I] try to force other people to think or act the way I do, I just try to get them to see where I'm coming from.
Thus the problem with moral relativism. You may not want to demand that others prescribe to your moral code, but you do have one and you do think it's an accurate one. You take it upon yourself to decide who and what is right and wrong.
So you're not a moral relativist.
Originally posted by Borbarad
[B]No. I was merely implying that you're fighting for an already lost cause. Nobody will ban alcohol and tobacco and as long as those two drugs are allowed, you could happily legalize anything else too.The side-effects would be far lower crime rates and the total destruction of 90 % of all organized crime on the globe, including some terrorist networks - as most of them gain their money from selling illegal drugs.
Really? Is that what you think will happen? Or how about the fact that drug use will increase exponentially because instead of going to jail for doing drugs, you'll get in trouble for not paying taxes on those drugs? Not a compelling argument for legalization.
Originally posted by GideonYet I acknowledge that other people have other moral codes and that they view those codes the same way I view mine, so I don't force my code on everyone else.
Thus the problem with moral relativism. You may not want to demand that others prescribe to your moral code, but you do have one and you do think it's an accurate one.
You take it upon yourself to decide who and what is right and wrong.To me. I don't tell everyone else that just because I disagree with them their entire viewpoint is wrong.
Originally posted by Eminence
Yet I acknowledge that other people have other moral codes and that they view those codes the same way I view mine, so I don't force my code on everyone else.
Hence where I said "you may not want to demand that others prescribe to your moral code."
To me. I don't tell everyone else that just because I disagree with them their entire viewpoint is wrong.
Right.