The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Faunus, I'll tell you this again. If we were to believe in moral relativism, then everything would be allowed and justified one way or the other. The idea that certain things such as the Holocaust, slaughter of Russians, terrorism, and basic murder are perceived as an evil and wrong by most of the world, should debunk the idea of moral relativism. In fact, the ONLY arguments you could make for murder/rape/theft would be skewed versions of ancient texts and political agendas, neither of which are justifiable by any kind of logic.

Originally posted by Eminence
I'd assume sarcasm off the bat if I could see how it would be justified.

It's not sarcasm. Just acknowledging what you've said. Except I don't have any faith in that. If someone spouts that Adolf Hitler was right in what he did, I'd call that person a moron and see to it that he or she spent the rest of their time here in humiliation and despair.

A lot like Nai's current predicament.

Simply because someone has an opinion doesn't mean that it is a valid one. But we've been through this before on other topics.

I'd call that person a moron and see to it that he or she spent the rest of their time here in humiliation and despair.

A lot like Nai's current predicament.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's not sarcasm. Just acknowledging what you've said. Except I don't have any faith in that.

Originally posted by Eminence
I can't have an opinion without forcing it on someone else...?

People need to be confronted when they're wrong. I'm with Darth Sexy: Adolf Hitler's actions were horrible in deed and scope; there is no sort of logical or moral justification for what he did. None. Zilch. Zero. And there are people in this world who fervently believe that there is. That's wrong.

And when you let people think stupid thoughts like that, you risk it fostering.

Originally posted by Eminence
I can't have an opinion without forcing it on someone else...?

Didn't you tell me, when we were discussing religion, that you thought I was retarded for believing in something that is allegedly, an illusion? So basically if I didn't see your point of view I'm either retarded or wrong?

Originally posted by Gideon
People need to be confronted when they're wrong. I'm with Darth Sexy: Adolf Hitler's actions were horrible in deed and scope; there is no sort of logical or moral justification for what he did. None. Zilch. Zero. And there are people in this world who fervently believe that there is. That's wrong.

I'll get back to you tomorrow, when I can think and write with more clarity.

I had to peek this time; it's been days.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Didn't you tell me, when we were discussing religion, that you thought I was retarded for believing in something that is allegedly, an illusion?

Originally posted by Eminence
I had to peek this time; it's been forever

I bet you say that a lot.

Originally posted by Eminence
I had to peek this time; it's been days.Um... no.

Scrolling through the last 25 pages, you've made hilarious personal attacks when my opinion doesn't agree with yours, so I don't see how you're going to sit there and say you have moral codes or opinions and don't force it on others. If that is the case, you have no right to disagree, because I can respond with "who are you..". And please respond to my previous post whenever you find clarity.

You know, upon looking back at my earlier arguments, asserting that I'm a moral relativist would make me hypocritical, which would make even more hypocritical because I make a habit of pointing out other peoples' hypocrisy. So yeah, I need to reevaluate.

DS, here's what I had to say on the issue of god. I went to the 260th page or something to find it:

I have no problem believing that there is an entity in the universe that operates on a level beyond our understanding. What I take issue with [...] is the idea that that entity cares about how we wear our hair.

Edit: I peeked again; see the above.

Is there a commandment about how one is supposed to wear one's hair?

Facial hair counts.

I'm still waiting for the explanation on that, by the way. DS said he'd oblige before his eight-day trip to someplace that I can't remember but was jealous of...

Edit: And for the record, the fact that I'm taking a second look at my stance doesn't mean that I don't still think moral values are subjective, which was the original, unfettered take on it. The fact that people here clearly have different moral values sort of proves me right.

Originally posted by Eminence
The fact that people here clearly have different moral values sort of proves me right.

What?

No... lol. Nebaris, Nai, Janus, Illustrious, and Deception still think that the ancient Sith are more powerful than Sidious, despite the fact that I've rubbed their faces in every canon statement and shred of evidence in existence.

Does that mean that he's not the most powerful simply because they think he's not?

How is that a moral value...?

Originally posted by Eminence
You know, upon looking back at my earlier arguments, asserting that I'm a moral relativist would make me hypocritical, which would make even more hypocritical because I make a habit of pointing out other peoples' hypocrisy. So yeah, I need to reevaluate.

DS, here's what I had to say on the issue of god. I went to the 260th page or something to find it:
I don't think I even called you retarded in that particular debate, but I could very easily be wrong about that.

Edit: I peeked again; see the above.

And the hair thing thing is a rabbinical commandment. I can't fully explain it to you because I don't fully follow it but I will ask a Rabbi in the morning. There's no such thing as "don't shave", regardless of what lightsnake believes.

And my point is that moral relativism is an illusion. When you call me retarded or illogical in our star wars debates, it's because you see me violating some universal principle. Even if I have a different initial opinion, I also end up seeing this universal principle and conceding the argument to you. While I'm not saying everything has a universal principle, I AM saying everything is NOT subjective.

Originally posted by Eminence
How is that a moral value...?

It's not.

But you said that moral values are subjective simply because "people have different moral values." Well the subject of the most powerful Sith Lord has been long since decided; Palpatine is.

Yet they don't think so. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm right and they are wrong.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is the only thing I was trying to prove.

And the hair thing thing is a rabbinical commandment. I can't fully explain it to you because I don't fully follow it but I will ask a Rabbi in the morning. There's no such thing as "don't shave", regardless of what lightsnake believes.

And my point is that moral relativism is an illusion. When you call me retarded or illogical in our star wars debates, it's because you see me violating some universal principle.

Even if I have a different initial opinion, I also end up seeing this universal principle and conceding the argument to you. While I'm not saying everything has a universal principle, I AM saying everything is NOT subjective.

If it's the latter, well, I agree; I don't think I've ever said that everything is subjective.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's not.

But you said that moral values are subjective simply because "people have different moral values."

Yet they don't think so. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm right and they are wrong.

Originally posted by Eminence
That's... not at all the same thing.

There aren't canon sources dictating the laws of morality, to my knowledge.

Why not?

Once again, you said moral codes are subjective because people don't follow the same code. I'm just going on what you've said.