The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Liar. "Youyr source is wrong. And biased." = dismissal of the source.
I love how you just say "They're wrong" with no substantiation whatsoever.

I posted several articles from NY times earlier in a post to you, so obviously i wasn't dismissing the entire paper. If you had read the articles i did post in response to spending, I have already answered you, and given you substantiation, so i didn't see the point of reposting it. Sorry i assumed you actually followed my links.

My response: I see none of this directed to DS's screeching chimpanzee

My bad, i've not even been reading his posts to be honest.

And look at it rationally? Again, Truejedi's "See it my way or shut up" nonsense.

But wait. We only broke the law in regards to three people

You know, you really have to take the cake for passive aggressive hackery on this thread. "I mean no disrespect, but you're stupid!"

Never said stupid. Said ignorant, which is way different. I don't even fault you for it. Politics can be really boring if you aren't interested in studying it.

That'd be because of the quotes tag not ending at a certain point. That's not hard to figure out.

Good deal, my bad for that assumption, gotta control my own emotions more than, since i'm trying to read that into it.
Be back tonight LS.

Instead of constantly making you look bad LS, I've decided to give you a lesson.
1. Please tell me the definition between real wealth and inflated wealth. If you don't know, you have no business in this discussion.
2. The economy is based on a few factors. Employment/unemployment/producing/consuming/spending.
3. Real wealth is built upon trade surpluses. The revenues made through a trade surplus gets put into more capital investments, whcih create more surpluses and more jobs.
4. As of today, for every dollar an American makes, he spends $5.50.
5. Credit borrowing has reached an obscene number, and is a result of artificially low interest rates to stimulate spending.
6. Post WWII until the 70s, people borrowed to invest in certain capital, people after the 70s borrowed to consume what they otherwise wouldn't be able to until the future.
7. We went from a producing economy to a service/consuming economy. No longer able to finance our debt, we printed more money and more US treasury securities and bonds.
8. It is the end game for us because of our nearly 50 trillion dollar deficit, and because we do not produce nearly as much as we consume.
9. The real estate bubble played as much of a role in the destruction of our economy as did the credit crisis.
10. The credit crisis started in the 70s after Nixon abandoned the gold standard, but didn't manifest itself until Clinton removed a loan cap from banks, which caused excessive borrowing and consumption.

If you follow all of that, I will continue. Seeing as you most likely don't, I believe I've proven my point.

Nominal* wealth. 😄

Originally posted by Hyuga Ricdeau
Nominal* wealth. 😄

Originally posted by truejedi
[B]I posted several articles from NY times earlier in a post to you, so obviously i wasn't dismissing the entire paper. If you had read the articles i did post in response to spending, I have already answered you, and given you substantiation, so i didn't see the point of reposting it. Sorry i assumed you actually followed my links.

My bad, i've not even been reading his posts to be honest.

I never said that. Never. So putting it in quotes is libel.

already addressed. my point there is that it was an insignificant talking point, not that it was wrong. Im not pleased with Bush over that either. (one of my many reasons for not liking him)

Never said stupid. Said ignorant, which is way different. I don't even fault you for it. Politics can be really boring if you aren't interested in studying it.

Presidents have been violating the constitution for decades. It's hilarious how you single out Bush though. I'm talking about an objective analysis of the economic state of America and you come back with "republicans suck liberals rule". Very simple minded approach, congratulations.

So, the argument suddenly becomes "but other people did it."

Circumstance matters a bit, 1. It doesn't make it any more excusable, 2.

And quite frankly, what's to get to in your posts? Constant repetitions of "LOL YOU DUM!"

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So, the argument suddenly becomes "but other people did it."

Circumstance matters a bit, 1. It doesn't make it any more excusable, 2.

And quite frankly, what's to get to in your posts? Constant repetitions of "LOL YOU DUM!"

So wait. What you got out of my sound argument and educational info is "lol you dum"? So you either:

1. have no understanding of basic economic principles.
or
2. You're conceding because you have no rebuttals, and nothing resembling an argument.

I'm going to go with "all of the above". Come back when you've shown some sort of intelligence regarding the particular subject being discussed.

I love how your 'rebuttals' consist of nothing but "No u" and then you get huffy when I point this out. As well as my lack of understanding on basic economic principles comes entirely from someone who ignores basic facts and numbers simply because he doesn't like the source (largely because they don't subscribe to his beloved theory of economics).

As usual, TdTd, you remain as you've always been: An impotent little brat whose only release is being a dick on the internet.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I love how your 'rebuttals' consist of nothing but "No u" and then you get huffy when I point this out. As well as my lack of understanding on basic economic principles comes entirely from someone who ignores basic facts and numbers simply because he doesn't like the source (largely because they don't subscribe to his beloved theory of economics).

As usual, TdTd, you remain as you've always been: An impotent little brat whose only release is being a dick on the internet.

Actually, you've clearly shown to be an idiot who doesn't know what he's arguing about, and instead of acknowledging it, looks like a bigger idiot with "denial" written all over his face.

My "no u" rebuttals are basically graphs, concrete data, and a lesson in economics for you. I'm convinced you don't know how to read so instead you post some nonsense and hope you don't embarrass yourself.

And I don't ignore basic facts and numbers. You gave me ONE link about a tax cut and used that as an argument for the economy getting better, showing that you have no idea what actually goes into an economic recovery.

As usual, Lightsnake makes a fool out of himself instead of conceding. But again, I accept your concession, move along tool.

Edit: Gotta love the tdtd reference which is used as a last resort by angry nerds trying to mimic other members of the forum🙂

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/business/jan-june09/budget_03-20.html

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

owned

it was an insignificant talking point

This looks like the person advocating the preservation of embryos against the mother's will because they might feel pain is calling the torture by waterboarding, a technique that convinces the victim they are drowning, a technique that washed out all of the operatives subjected to it in an attempt to develop resistance to it an "insignificant talking point."

I realize that I might be missing some context, and I certainly hope I am, but that looks like blatantly insensitive hypocrisy to me.

Where DO I begin picking this bullshit apart?

Obama's 'quadrupled' the deficit? The stimulus signed by Obama will add 145 billion to the deficit, while domestic programs, tax cuts, increases, etc. Add less. There's also another hundred billion or so from programs Obama's supported

Looking to the deficit beforehand which stands at approximately...what, 1.22 trillion?

So you cite a source with just about as much credibility as Townhall.com that mismanages numbers and outright lies. In fact, let's take a look at the economic forecast of last week:

-- Job losses slowed to 247,000, their lowest total since a year ago, beating expectations by roughly 100,000.
-- The unemployment rate actually *declined* to 9.4 percent from 9.5
percent.
-- May and June job loss estimates have been revised *downward*.
-- Hourly earnings improved.
-- The average workweek lengthened, particularly in manufacturing.
-- The manufacturing sector added jobs on a seasonally-adjusted basis.
-- The NASDAQ will open today about 33 percent higher than when Obama took office.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Signs of a GOOD economy? No. Signs of a turning point? Quite possibly.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where DO I begin picking this bullshit apart?

Obama's 'quadrupled' the deficit? The stimulus signed by Obama will add 145 billion to the deficit, while domestic programs, tax cuts, increases, etc. Add less. There's also another hundred billion or so from programs Obama's supported

Looking to the deficit beforehand which stands at approximately...what, 1.22 trillion?

So you cite a source with just about as much credibility as Townhall.com that mismanages numbers and outright lies. In fact, let's take a look at the economic forecast of last week:

-- Job losses slowed to 247,000, their lowest total since a year ago, beating expectations by roughly 100,000.
-- The unemployment rate actually *declined* to 9.4 percent from 9.5
percent.
-- May and June job loss estimates have been revised *downward*.
-- Hourly earnings improved.
-- The average workweek lengthened, particularly in manufacturing.
-- The manufacturing sector added jobs on a seasonally-adjusted basis.
-- The NASDAQ will open today about 33 percent higher than when Obama took office.

Those 3 are what you should be looking at, instead of reading the BLS which creates something out of nothing and has 90% of Americans believe in it because they're ignorant. The economy has nowhere to go but down. The US dollar has nowhere to go but down. If we started having trade surpluses, that would give us a chance of getting out of this rut in 5-10 years. If we went back onto the Gold Standard, same chance. But what's Obama doing? Taking our ridiculous deficit and increasing it to stimulate consumer spending. Consumers spend now instead of saving for the future and driving this country into deeper debt. Earth to Lightsnake, get a clue.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Signs of a GOOD economy? No. Signs of a turning point? Quite possibly. [/B]

I have fully explained how the BLS distorts and inflates GDP, as well as controls inflation. It's funny how the same thing was happening with the Bush Administration, people were saying everything is looking up. So you don't believe the Bush administration but you believe the Obama administration? Is there no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about? Oh, and I've already explained to you WHY the BLS and the government distort stats. I don't particularly like talking to braindead people but you don't seem to understand the concept of "consumer confidence".

So much for picking ANYTHING apart ROFL. GO back to the drawing board champ.

Here, educate yourself.

http://dailyreckoning.com/what-real-stimulus-looks-like/
http://dailyreckoning.com/sick-of-the-dollar-print-your-own-money/
http://dailyreckoning.com/the-bounce-phase-of-the-economic-depression/
http://dailyreckoning.com/illogical-optimisim/
http://dailyreckoning.com/dont-put-your-money-on-a-us-recovery/

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Are you just regurgitating what you read on that link? Guess what, Obama's spent over 1.4 trillion dollars already. Do I have to spell out for you the devastation a "stimulus" plan causes when your country doesn't produce real wealth?

So much for picking ANYTHING apart ROFL. GO back to the drawing board champ.

http://538host.com/reces0.PNG

Oh, the job loss rate? Yeah, it's just building up with that momentum. Riight

Originally posted by Lightsnake
In other words: "LALALALA no facts, LALALA!!!"
How many times do I need to post exactly how much Obama's spared compared to what's alreayd been spent? You suddenly grew a spine on that matter?

Awww, the brat's upset.

http://538host.com/reces0.PNG

Oh, the job loss rate? Yeah, it's just building up with that momentum. Riight

I'm sorry for embarrassing you again lightsnake. I realize this topic isn't your forte but you're just making yourself look hilariously stupid arguing out of ignorance, citing BLS statistics in the Obama administration as your focal point, while condemning the Bush administration claiming THEY did things in secrecy. Is this what happens when you get owned? You resort to double standards and denial🙂 OWNED🙂

Edit: LOL at LS's unemployment rate. People continue to sit on unemployment or rather spend their unemployment while both the public and private sectors aren't creating new jobs, and yet the unemployment rate is dropping? ROFL. Stupidity at its finest.

Ah, Republicans vs. Democrats. Jedi vs. Sith. Barack Obama does sound suspiciously Sithian...

I gotta say, arguing with ignorant buffoons is both hilarious and easy. Just present facts and watch them squirm away from reality with "Lolz you havent provided any facts!!" Ah this is way too easy. Hopefully Faunus has some logical input. At least RH stays out of discussions he has limited knowledge of, Lightsnake just gets into it, gets his ass kicked, and projects his insecurities. Like I said, hilarious.

^Apparently LS thinks we're going to get money from some magical place. As consumer credit increases, so does personal and national debt. How do we fix this? Lightsnake says MORE stimulus, MORE spending!

And as supply and velocity of money increases, the value of the dollar goes lower and inflation rises. But that's a good thing right LS?

The Government, Fed, and BLS have to continue distorting stastics to increase foreign investor confidence so that superpowers like China keep buying our treasuries. If Obama came out and told everyone that the economy is really in a depression and going into inevitable collapse, we get a stock market crash and hyperinflation.

This has been way too easy.