The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Nephthys3,287 pages
oh, and don't get me wrong DE, i give a pretty decent percentage of my income to charities to help the needy. I do believe in helping people, and whenever anyone i know is in serious financial trouble because of medical needs, i help them the best i can. It might not be much, but i do what i can. I just think i am better off deciding where my money can go than the government can. I'm not a fan of taxes. Not giving money to sick people. So there was no need for the name-calling. You jumped to conclusions, and didn't even send me any bananas of love at the end of your post.

Twas typed in jest you big mook.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I gotta say, arguing with ignorant buffoons is both hilarious and easy.
I have some modesty in my bag of goodies, just step in to my office...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I have some modesty in my bag of goodies, just step in to my office...

Yea I wish I had the ability but it's tough when you're arguing with idiots. I can definitely see where other people come from when they argue with me on certain portions of star wars.

You mean when you continually dodge or misdirect away from points, ignore facts or arguments that run counter to your own and repeatedly state your own opinion as if it were fact to the point where my eyes bleed? Yes that can be a little irritating. 😐

http://www.zerohedge.com/content/san-francisco-fed-skeptical-about-unemployment-rate-pickup-1

Good read.

Another refreshingly objective piece from the San Fran Fed, this time dealing with the question of whether to expect a recovery in employment; the Fed comes out with what sounds like a resounding no.

Even more dramatic, however, has been the break from past patterns in the number of workers who are involuntarily employed part-time. Numerous reports tell of workers being furloughed for a set number of days in a month or asked to work fewer hours each day.These anecdotes are supported by the monthly data. Indeed, the number of workers employed part-time against their wishes is at historical highs.The fraction of the labor force that reports working part-time for economic reasons has increased from 3.0% in December 2007 to 5.8% in April 2009.This increase has been broad-based, occurring in a wide range of occupations. Moreover, the reduction in hours has not been trivial, with more than half of such workers experiencing reductions of five hours per week or more.

What does all this mean for the labor market? We combine data on involuntary part-time workers with the standard unemployment rate to arrive at an alternative measure of labor underutilization. We plot this measure in Figure 3, which shows that the labor market has considerably more slackthan the official unemployment rate indicates.The figure extends this labor underutilization measure using the Blue Chip consensus forecast for the unemployment rate as a benchmark and then adding a share of involuntary part-time workers based on the proportion of workers in that category to the unemployed during the current recession. This projection indicates that the level of labor market slack would be higher by the end of 2009 than experienced at any other time in the post-WorldWar II period, implying a longer and slower recovery path for the unemployment rate. This suggests that, more than in previous recessions, when the economy rebounds, employers will tap into their existing workforces rather than hire new workers. This could substantially slow the recovery of the outflow rate and put upward pressure on future unemployment rates.

http://www.abiworld.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=58351&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm


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Contact: John Hartgen
(703) 739-0800
[email protected]

CONSUMER BANKRUPTCY FILINGS REACH HIGHEST MONTHLY TOTAL SINCE 2005 BANKRUPTCY LAW OVERHAUL

August 4, 2009, Alexandria, Va.— U.S. consumer bankruptcy filings reached 126,434 in July, the highest monthly total since the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act was implemented in October 2005, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute (ABI), relying on data from the National Bankruptcy Research Center (NBKRC). The July 2009 consumer filing total represented a 34.3 percent increase nationwide from the same period a year ago, and an 8.7 percent increase over the June 2009 consumer filing total of 116,365. Chapter 13 filings constituted 28.3 percent of all consumer cases in July, slightly above the June rate.

"Today's bankruptcy filing number reflects the sustained and growing financial stress on U.S. households," said ABI Executive Director Samuel J. Gerdano. "Rising unemployment on top of high pre-existing debt burdens is a formula for higher bankruptcies through the end of this year."

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean when you continually dodge or misdirect away from points, ignore facts or arguments that run counter to your own and repeatedly state your own opinion as if it were fact to the point where my eyes bleed? Yes that can be a little irritating. 😐

As usual, you're not credible enough to make any kind of a judgement call. Copying LS only makes you look dumber. If you don't know how to "read" facts in my posts, I suggest you stop trying🙂

And finally for the grand finally, putting this argument to rest.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/truth-behind-todays-bls-report

The Truth Behind Today's BLS Report
Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/07/2009 12:36 -0500

* BLS
* Bureau of Labor Statistics
* Chrysler
* David Rosenberg
* Earnings
* Employment
* Expectations
* General Motors
* Jobs
* Recession
* Shadow Stats
* Truth
* Unemployment

The confidence game in turbo boost mode. The market is oblivious of the underlying data behind today's "better than expected" BLS computer model output. Yet for the few remaining who do care about the increasingly irrelevant fundamentals, we provide some observations. Here are facts from John Williams' Shadow Stats:

July usually sees a regular pattern of planned automobile production line shutdowns to accommodate retooling for the new model year, but recent disruptions to the auto industry have changed pattern this year. Without the usual pattern of shutdowns, the government’s computers nonetheless responded by creating the usual offsetting boost in jobs, not only in the auto industry, but in supporting industries as well. The auto industry itself was alone among durable goods manufacturing industries in showing a reported, seasonally-adjusted monthly gain in July, up by 28,000 jobs. [Would anybody who recently got a job at Chrysler and GM please write us immediately]

...

While Wall Street likely will hype the July employment results as confirmation that economy has turned the corner, such hype and resulting overly optimistic expectations should be slammed in the months ahead, when the positive reporting distortions reverse out in a normal catch-up process.

...

The unadjusted annual declines in the June and July payrolls remain the deepest since a similar decline at the trough of the 1958 recession, but still shy of the 4.9% trough seen in the 1949 downturn. When the 1949 annual low growth is broken, most likely next month, the annual percentage contraction in payrolls will be the most severe since the production shutdown following World War II.

...

- Birth-Death/Bias Factor Adjustment. As discussed in SGS Newsletter No. 51, Birth-Death Model biases tend to overstate payroll employment during recessions. Never designed to handle the downside pressures from an economic contraction, the model adds a fairly consistent upside bias to the payroll levels each year, currently averaging about 76,000 jobs per month. The unadjusted July 2009 bias was 32,000, up from 25,000 the year before, but down from 185,000 in June.

And some observations from David Rosenberg:

U.S. nonfarm payroll surprise but less than meets the eye Today's employment report is being treated as a 'green shoot' of major proportions. While it was by far the best jobs performance of the year, much of the better-than-expected tally in nonfarm payrolls reflected the bounce in auto production as well as the distortion from the federal census workers. Combined, these two influences effectively "added" 100,000 to the headline number, so net-net, the consensus view of -325,000 was not as far off the mark as the market believed at first glance.

* Payrolls came in at -247k in July — the consensus was at -325k
* Upward revisions by 43k to the back data
* Unemployment rate down to 9.4% from 9.5% (but as in Canada, due to a sliding labour force — down 422k in the U.S.)
* We are going to see a big increase in industrial production for July — manufacturing workweek jumped 0.8% MoM
* Income was surprisingly strong — average weekly earnings rose 0.5% MoM (after a 0.3% decline in June)

The auto sector added 28,200 to the industry payroll in July, which was the highest tally in 11 years. To show you just how big that really is, it is a 69% annualized surge. Normally, the industry, which is in secular decline, posts job losses of between 20,000 and 30,000 consistently, so this alone represented roughly a 50,000 swing. We estimate that there was about a 30,000 swing in the rest of the manufacturing sector due to the spillover from the current inventory adjustment in the motor vehicle industry. The 0.3% MoM increase in the workweek was also skewed by the 4.1% MoM jump in the auto sector.

[T]here have been large fluctuations in the federal government payroll too. After hiring a slew of Census workers in the spring, there were 57,000 layoffs in May-June and then we saw in today’s report that 12,000 federal workers were “hired” in July. Again, mathematically, this contributed about 20,000 to today’s headline number. In other words, and we have no intent on raining on anyone’s parade, there was about 100,000 non-recurring payrolls in that top-line figure. It may be dangerous to extrapolate today’s report into a view that we are about to fully turn the corner on the job market front.

To be sure, the drop in the unemployment rate was a surprise, but it was all due to the slide in the labour force — the employment-to-population ratio gives a more accurate picture of the slack in the labour market and the hidden secret in today’s report was that this metric slid to a 25-year low of 59.4% from 59.5% in June and 61.0% at the turn of the year. Of those unemployed, 33.8% of them have been unemployed now for over 27 weeks — a record amount (was at 29.0% in June and was at 17.5% at the start of this recession).

And to conclude with Rosie:

“Bear markets have three stages – (i) sharp down, ii) reflexive rebound, and iii) a drawn-out fundamental downtrend”.

We have little doubt as to which stage we are in today.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/unemployment-report-distortions/24080

Checkmate x2

As usual, you're not credible enough to make any kind of a judgement call. Copying LS only makes you look dumber. If you don't know how to "read" facts in my posts, I suggest you stop trying

Credible? Who decides how credible I am? You? You'll forgive me if I name you slightly biased on that account. Is it by seniority, because if so you yourself posted that you are a mere 3 months 'older' to these forums than me. Based on animosity, because you seriously generate more of that than me. Victory's? I've never see you win a debate your opponent wasn't banned from. So what make me ineligible to form opinions? Considering your continued use of ad hominem attacks and bashing, you are the one who isn't credible here.

And how the hell am I copying someone this time? You really are paranoid.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Credible? Who decides how credible I am? You? You'll forgive me if I name you slightly biased on that account. Is it by seniority, because if so you yourself posted that you are a mere 3 months 'older' to these forums than me. Based on animosity, because you seriously generate more of that than me. Victory's? I've never see you win a debate your opponent wasn't banned from. So what make me ineligible to form opinions? Considering your continued use of ad hominem attacks and bashing, you are the one who isn't credible here.

And how the hell am I copying someone [b]this time? You really are paranoid. [/B]

Wrong. I've never seen anyone on this forum take you seriously, EVER. You have to hide behind the seniors on this forum to boost your rep because you don't have the balls to go at it alone. And I never said my attitude was great. I'm a dick and I know it, but I'm a dick who has MORE than proven an argument while my adversary hasn't. Therefore, I win🙂

And I kicked your ass in the Exile debate, but you weren't banned. Shame.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, stay out of a debate. If you don't, that would make you a troll. Notice how I don't debate philosophy, or most star wars characters because I have no knowledge of them. You have to know when to quit while you're behind, and on this forum, most people don't know.

Wrong. I've never seen anyone on this forum take you seriously, EVER.

Oh no, I think I might cry.

And MC took me seriously. 😛 Not that I'm going to get into a 'my e-penis is bigger than yours' contest.

You have to hide behind the seniors on this forum to boost your rep because you don't have the balls to go at it alone.

You mean like your sniveling bootkissing of Gideon? Weren't you referring to him as 'master' at one point?

And I've never hidden behind anyone, its merely that certain members post faster than I can so I fall behind in debates. Nottomention I rarely participate in debates anyway.

And I kicked your ass in the Exile debate, but you weren't banned. Shame.

Nope. Faunus declared me victor, I won. 😖anta:

If you have no idea what you're talking about, stay out of a debate.

I'm not in the debate.

If you don't, that would make you a troll.

You can't troll a social thread.

Notice how I don't debate philosophy, or most star wars characters because I have no knowledge of them. You have to know when to quit while you're behind, and on this forum, most people don't know.

Thanks for the advice, but I think you should try philosophy. It's way more interesting and useful than economics is.

Damn, I seem to have joined the contest anyway.

I think it's funny DS is using graphs with STILL no backing and source and not answering any of the ones I post. I also find him citing a site that declares "Don't pay for electricity" with posts by 'Tyler Durden' too hilarious for comment.

Meanwhile. In NH, guy is arrested at a protest at an event Obama was at while carrying a gun.

People are actually defending him. Wow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh no, I think I might cry.

And MC took me seriously. 😛 Not that I'm going to get into a 'my e-penis is bigger than yours' contest.


prove it

You mean like your sniveling bootkissing of Gideon? Weren't you referring to him as 'master' at one point?

Seeing as how we've gotten into HUGE arguments involving namecalling, I don't see how I have been bootkissing anybody. If anything, I stick to myself, while you ride other people's coattails.

And I've never hidden behind anyone, its merely that certain members post faster than I can so I fall behind in debates. Nottomention I rarely participate in debates anyway.

Oh so you admit that you trolled with the "You haven't proven anything" posts? If you truly believed that, you would have backed that assertion up.

Nope. Faunus declared me victor, I won. 😖anta:

Except he didn't. He said he didn't even read it further.

Thanks for the advice, but I think you should try philosophy. It's way more interesting and useful than economics is.

Damn, I seem to have joined the contest anyway.

What's your philosophy? Posting without backing anything you say up? Weird, I SHOULD try that, but something tells me I'm going to get the short end of the stick.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I think it's funny DS is using graphs with STILL no backing and source and not answering any of the ones I post. I also find him citing a site that declares "Don't pay for electricity" with posts by 'Tyler Durden' too hilarious for comment.

Meanwhile. In NH, guy is arrested at a protest at an event Obama was at while carrying a gun.

People are actually defending him. Wow.

I find it even FUNNIER posting a shitload of sources and proof to back up my argument, while your only rebuttal is "lolz you haven't proven anything" and "the BLS says it so it's true", while using double standards to find one administration corrupt, while listening blindly to another one. Is it any wonder that you don't know what you're talking about and as a result, stopped posting anything serious? I rest my case.

At any rate LS, I've already accepted your concession. You can ***** and moan like a little girl, or you can project your insecurities onto me by basically repeating everything I've told you, right back to me. Either way it's hilarious that you don't know how to stop posting when you're clearly outmatched.

Funny you use the term 'shit' in conjunction with your sources. Yeah, that's my rebuttal because you HAVEN'T proven anything. You cite stuff from the ******* of the internet, from cites that a quick perusing reveals are almost totally lacking in credibility with no background in just about anything or just straight opinion pieces.

There's no concession. There's only the realization you're a ridiculous little brat who can't be disagreed with without throwing a fit. Same as always, TdTd.

What's next, Davey? Show us the birth certificate?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Funny you use the term 'shit' in conjunction with your sources. Yeah, that's my rebuttal because you HAVEN'T proven anything. You cite stuff from the ******* of the internet, from cites that a quick perusing reveals are almost totally lacking in credibility with no background in just about anything or just straight opinion pieces.

There's no concession. There's only the realization you're a ridiculous little brat who can't be disagreed with without throwing a fit. Same as always, TdTd.

What's next, Davey? Show us the birth certificate?

Ahhh.. Same old lightsnake. When he gets beaten, he doesn't concede but continues making a fool out of himself.

And of course, I haven't proven anything, other the 4 pages of sources I've typed up here, while your argument rests on distorted BLS statistics and a double standard even you're too dumb to comprehend. All of the sites I've posted have more credibility than the BLS. What's that? Oh right, the BLS is straight forward because Obama is in power. ROFL. I accept lightsnake, move on or find a legitimate argument. Or you can continue crying, either way it's HILARIOUS🙂

I don't know what's sadder. The fact that LS hasn't shown to understand basic economic principles, or the fact that he hasn't shown to understand basic economic principles AND he's too dumb to be objective or follow any kind of logic. But when in doubt, LS' defense is "lolz you haven't proven anything!!!!"

My argument: graphs, hard data, statistics with explanations detailing how everything is tied together in the economy. Logical and sound.

Lightsnake's argument: One link concerning distorted numbers from the BLS, without any kind of explanation or logic, even if those numbers are true. This is followed by him using double standards to condemn the Bush Administration for their secrecy and lies, but at the same time blindly follow Obama and his administration as if they were being honest in the LEAST bit.

Conclusion: Lightsnake's fails yet again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Same as always, TdTd.

🤨

Originally posted by Borbarad
🤨

Too funny. Nai, I've yet to hear from you concerning Germany's economy. I told you it looks dimmer than China seeing as how world consumption is down and Germany is the highest exporting country.

prove it

No.

We debated, he agreed with my take on the outcome and he congratulated me. The search buttons too annoying to bother with here.

Seeing as how we've gotten into HUGE arguments involving namecalling, I don't see how I have been bootkissing anybody. If anything, I stick to myself, while you ride other people's coattails.

Lovers tiffs don't detract from the fact you have verbally fellated him many a time in the past.

Oh so you admit that you trolled with the "You haven't proven anything" posts? If you truly believed that, you would have backed that assertion up.

I don't understand how you got that from what I said or even what its in reation to but I disagree on princible.

Except he didn't. He said he didn't even read it further.

Nope.

What's your philosophy? Posting without backing anything you say up? Weird, I SHOULD try that, but something tells me I'm going to get the short end of the stick.

Such hatred you have. And I was trying to initiate a reasonable discussion. 🙁

edit- also, apparantly China might bail America out of their troubles. Thoughts? Lies?