The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Fagboy3,287 pages

Originally posted by One Free Man
I don't disagree.

scroll down a bit. He promptly shows that he is god of all things and also objective and knows a bit, by coming right at the end of my debate with Ms.Marvel and white-knighting one point to DEATH. He's even wrong on the one point.

This is basically the question.

The AK47 was created in 1947 and put into "Field testing by select units." It wasn't officially and widely adopted into service by the red army until 1949.

Ms.Marvel stated that in 1946, the AK47 was put into service. Therefor -get this- the AK47 was used in world war two.

I corrected her and stated that it wasn't adopted into service until 1949, and that world war two ended in 1945.

THIS IS THE FUNNY PART.
Dadudemon is now stating that Ms.Marvel wins, and that all my points are invalid, because he insists that "select units for field testing in 1947" means "in service," and that my use of the word "in service" to describe the start of its official service record makes me two years off, and since she is only one year off, she wins the ENTIRE debate.

The fact that she was wrong about World war two, the creation of the ak47, and the availability of the AK47 during the korean war, and I was spot on with all dates, facts, information, charts, and analogies, Means, by dadudemon's logic, she wins the argument!! HURRAY!

Who's right? you decide.

Edit: You know what, if I thought it would get me the slightest chance of cybersex, I'd probably do the same thing. Forget I said anything.

post removed

Originally posted by One Free Man
Jesus H. Christ that dadudemon and his prepubescent crush on Ms.Marvel is annoying.
post removed

Well, becuase in here, if he didn't he'd just be arguing with thin air.

Weird, and what the hell is up with F@gboy? What kinda user name is that??

Yeah, only complete and utter morons have naughty words in their user names.

Please, children. Although I agree that naughty words are Satanic, do not hurt each other with such cynical remarks.

Hey, I'm only physically a child thank you very much.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, only complete and utter morons have naughty words in their user names.
I agree man, what a moron.

all these big strong guys arguing over little ol' me 😂

oh my 😱

Dude: I would seriously appreciate it if you stopped trolling. If its Ivalice, you remember how annoying trolls were before, so what's the point? If its \\S//... well, screw it.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
all these big strong guys arguing over little ol' me 😂

oh my 😱

Don't hate you, and I wasn't going to be too pedantic about the world war two thing.

I do like the feeling of having the perfect quote to end an argument.


http://d35pmartin.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/04/3980317-minority-retort-the-issue-most-of-the-far-right-tea-bagging-types-have-with-barack-obama-is-that-hes-black-?

The above article, raging on and on, until i posted this howard dean quote:

http://www.winningbackamerica.com/

"So over the next few months we're going to partner with 21st Century Democrats, with the Progressive Majority, with SEIU, with AFSCME, with other groups, where we can come together not just to make sure John Kerry is the next president of the United States, but to make sure that if he is, that this is not just simply a weigh station in between right-wing presidents. That we are going to take this country back this time, and never again are we going to permit the extreme right wing of the Republican Party to tell us what to do. I am tired of listening to the fundamentalist preachers, and we're not going to do it anymore.

(Applause.)

"I'm tired of listening to Ralph Reed, and Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh, and we're not going to do it anymore, because we built this country, and we're going to take it back for ordinary working Americans. We're going to take this country back, and it's going to take election, after election, after election, work after work, after work, and win, after win, after win. Take back America, we want our country back, and it's our country, we built it, and now in November we're going to take it back."


They have continued the argument, but not one person has responded to these quotes. Classic avoidance tactics. Its just a good feeling. I post it anytime someone mentions the article, (which is trying to insinuate that the Tea Party's saying "Take our country back" means take it back from blacks.) and that particular person disappears.

You'll correct me if I've missed some sort of relevant context, but that is not a particularly damning quote at all.

The actual article says that "race played a very big part in what drives the right's irrational hatred of Obama" and quotes the argument from HP claiming that "when you throw out all of the nonsense and contradictions, [of the Tea Party] there's nothing left except race."

That is the position he has endorsed.

As best as I can tell, you are saying that the phrase "take our country back" is context-neutral; the phrase has the same connotation in any circumstance. The defense that "Howard Dean said it too!" would only come close to being valid if Howard Dean had the same intentions and positions as the Tea Baggers. He does not. They themselves would be offended to think so.

It is entirely possible for Dean's "take our country back" to have arisen from the same pervasive divisiveness as the Tea Baggers, but it is not possible for him to have made the comment out of racism. That possibility is present, however, in the comments of the Tea Baggers.

-------

Originally posted by truejedi
Question though Red: Are you equally against the Family Guy episode? I think both examples are despicable, but I've run into so many people who want to hang Limbaugh for saying "retard" ,but are perfectly okay with the Family Guy episode. I tire of the double standard.

I think you've misunderstood me. I linked to the story about Palin pardoning Limbaugh but not [the white house guy] because I felt it highlighted the insular, tribal nature of contemporary American politics. That Palin is willing to forgive Limbaugh's remarks based on such obviously flimsy reasoning but not someone from the opposing party mirrors, in my mind at least, your projection that Obama would not condemn his own party for expanding Corporate access after doing so (harshly) to the Republicans.

I have no particular opinion on the Family Guy episode or even on Limbaugh's abrasiveness; the great part about living here is that they are both allowed to say whatever they'd like. (My opposition to using the word "retard" as a derogatory term was half-hearted at best. It was also at least a little facetious.)

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

It is entirely possible for Dean's "take our country back" to have arisen from the same pervasive divisiveness as the Tea Baggers, but it is not possible for him to have made the comment out of racism. That possibility is present, however, in the comments of the Tea Baggers.


Why is this possible for the Teabaggers, and not for Dean?

Originally posted by truejedi
Why is this possible for the Teabaggers, and not for Dean?

Let's think about this for a moment. Just think.

I'll even give you time to edit that into something else. Something less terrible.

No? Oh, well ok.

Why is it not possible for Howard Dean to be racist when proclaiming that he and others are going to "take [their] country back?" To discover this, among other things, we will be embarking upon a magical journey of discovery.

The people from whom he would be "taking his country back" are white. He is white. Unless you wish to posit a distaste for his own race I do not believe that you will be able to demonstrate prejudice against Whites on the part of Dean.

Problem solved. Dean isn't "taking his country back" because the people in control of it are descended from a race that he deems inferior. He is endeavoring to do so because he disagrees with their philosophies.

"But wait, Red. How come the same can't be true in the case of the Tea Baggers."
1. The veracity of the charges of Racism are not my concern. I did not espouse that belief. (I only parroted the article's position and explained why your counter doesn't work.)
2. The argument suggesting that the Tea Baggers are racist is one that would take only a little effort to compile. Pursuant to number one (1), I do not care enough to do so.
3. Because I'm a helper, I'll quote the argument from the Huffington Post cited in the article you linked.

From the outset, the tea party was based on a contradictory premise (the original tea party was a protest against a corporate tax cut). And when you throw out all of the nonsense and contradictions, there's nothing left except race. There's no other way to explain why these people were silent and compliant for so long, and only decided to collectively freak out when this 'foreign' and 'exotic' president came along and, right out of the chute, passed the largest middle class tax cut in American history -- something they would otherwise support, for goodness sake, it was $288 billion in tax cuts! -- we're left to deduce no other motive but the ugly one that lurks just beneath the pale flesh, the tri-corner hats and the dangly tea bag ornamentation... A white candidate would never be accused of being a secret Muslim. A white candidate would never be accused of being a foreign usurper. Only a black candidate with a foreign name would be accused of 'palling around with domestic terrorists' ... In the final analysis, when you boil away all of the weirdness, it becomes clear that the teabaggers are pissed because there isn't yet another doddering old white guy in the White House -- like they're used to. That's what this is all about.

I only scanned the article, so that may not even be the most compelling position. For your edification I've posted the link to the article in question at the end of my post.

http://www.deusexmalcontent.com/2010/03/minority-retort.html

Falcone.......... PAWNCH!!!!!

That is the weakest Falcon PAWNCH!!!! I have ever seen. I mean no explosions, no fire. Lame.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

No? Oh, well ok.

Why is it not possible for Howard Dean to be racist when proclaiming that he and others are going to "take [their] country back?" To discover this, among other things, we will be embarking upon a magical journey of discovery.

The people from whom he would be "taking his country back" are white. He is white. Unless you wish to posit a distaste for his own race I do not believe that you will be able to demonstrate prejudice against Whites on the part of Dean.

Problem solved. Dean isn't "taking his country back" because the people in control of it are descended from a race that he deems inferior. He is endeavoring to do so because he disagrees with their philosophies.

"But wait, Red. How come the same can't be true in the case of the Tea Baggers."
1. The veracity of the charges of Racism are not my concern. I did not espouse that belief. (I only parroted the article's position and explained why your counter doesn't work.)
2. The argument suggesting that the Tea Baggers are racist is one that would take only a little effort to compile. Pursuant to number one (1), I do not care enough to do so.
3. Because I'm a helper, I'll quote the argument from the Huffington Post cited in the article you linked.

Let me get this straight: You are saying because George W. Bush is white, the words "take our country back" cannot be construed as Racism, but because Obama is black, the words "take our country back" CAN be construed as racism?

Did you really just do that? You just treated the statements differently based SOLELY on the color of the skin of the man involved? Unless I am missing something, that is the ONLY difference in the two situations.
Is not THAT the very definition of racism?

My belief is, deference in situations such as this is EXACTLY why racism continues to have a place in our society. If we didn't treat statements like these unequally, and didn't teach our children that there was a difference in races by being so ultra-careful never to offend anyone, racism would die out completely in a generation or two.

The problem is, everyone trying to be so socially correct, keeps racism alive by acknowledging its existence until a new generation learns about it, and off we go again.

And Red, I did read the article, i know what it was trying to say, and it insinuated a LOT of things with next to no proof.

Originally posted by truejedi
Let me get this straight: You are saying because George W. Bush is white, the words "take our country back" cannot be construed as Racism, but because Obama is black, the words "take our country back" CAN be construed as racism?

Did you really just do that? You just treated the statements differently based SOLELY on the color of the skin of the man involved? Unless I am missing something, that is the ONLY difference in the two situations.
Is not THAT the very definition of racism?


I understand what RH was saying, you should re-read it regarding the differences between a black man saying it to the country and a white man saying it. At the same time, it's a double standard if he's saying one can be racist and one isn't. They're either both racist or neither.

My belief is, deference in situations such as this is EXACTLY why racism continues to have a place in our society. If we didn't treat statements like these unequally, and didn't teach our children that there was a difference in races by being so ultra-careful never to offend anyone, racism would die out completely in a generation or two.

The race card is played by the left, often as a justification for something, or to get something for free or at somebody else's expense.

The problem is, everyone trying to be so socially correct, keeps racism alive by acknowledging its existence until a new generation learns about it, and off we go again.

And Red, I did read the article, i know what it was trying to say, and it insinuated a LOT of things with next to no proof. [/B]


I wish people saw how blatantly racist and demeaning affirmative action and shit like that are. It's ironic how the left and the ACLU are always screaming "racism", yet they are the most guilty of everybody.

Originally posted by truejedi
Let me get this straight: You are saying because George W. Bush is white, the words "take our country back" cannot be construed as Racism, but because Obama is black, the words "take our country back" CAN be construed as racism?

Did you really just do that? You just treated the statements differently based SOLELY on the color of the skin of the man involved? Unless I am missing something, that is the ONLY difference in the two situations.


That isn't what I did at all and you know it. I don't know if you've decided that this is the big stand against the pinko-commie-librul-satanist-babymurdering fascist or what, but this is not the issue that you want to pick. You do not want to pick this position because your position is untenableI mean stupid.

There are certain differences in the positions of Howard Dean and the TeaBagger movement. There are also differences in the circumstances under which the line "take back the country" was said, and what was meant by it. You know all of this. If you want to consider all statements equal regardless of speaker then I dare you to walk up to the nearest black person and greet them with a hearty "Yo niggah!" You will be soundly demolished (by passers by as well as your target) and yet it is possible that less than a mile away the same exchange occurs without a drop of blood shed. The difference? In the peaceful interaction both participants were black.

This shows how the same line in different contexts may mean different things. Why don't we look at the specific context of the Howard Dean remark.

Wiki
Howard Brush Dean III (born November 17, 1948) is an American politician and physician from the U.S. state of Vermont. He served six terms as the 79th Governor of Vermont and ran unsuccessfully for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination. He was chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 2005 to 2009.

That is the Wiki's first paragraph about Howard dean. There are a lot of paragraphs about him later on the page, but this one will be enough. Do you see what the second independent clause of the second sentence says? That he ran for President of the United States of America. Specifically, he ran for the opportunity to run for President of the United States of America. When one runs for President, one must energize one's "base." This means that the people that would vote for you must be convinced to vote for you.

Howard Dean was speaking to a base of voters, who are tasked with this very task: voting into office those candidates who are most capable of representing one's interests. To that end political parties have been formed, essentially allowing voters the advantage of collective bargaining.

Howard Dean was telling voters that they would best be served by voting for him, partially by drawing a contrast to the elected administration that he would be running against. His words advocate a legitimate, lawful transfer of power through official channels based on authentic, intellectually honest policy differences.

Does the Tea Bagger movement have the same credibility?

Spoiler:
No

Luckily for me, I do not have to cobble together a case for or against their degree of egalitarianism, because I have yet to endorse a position regarding their racism or lack thereof.

I just have to make TJ understand that a phrase can mean different things depending on how (or by whom) it is said. To this end I have endeavored to explain to him why this statement is not racist in the least. I have explained that the motivations behind Mr. Dean's statements were not motivated by race even a little.

It is my intention now to ask TJ a question:

Why is it that you feel that Mr. Dean's statements are racist? What makes you think that he is treating his opponent, former President Bush, differently or unfairly based on his (Bush's) race?