The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Red Nemesis3,287 pages

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I didn't say I supported them lol.

I didn't mean to say that you did. I was just observing general silliness about the word "socialized."


Yes and no(funding).

Elaborate? It must be late, because this made zero senses to me.

I know there aren't. Then again, I have a choice between believing foxnews or cnn/msnbc.

MSNBC is just as biased, but they are a little bit more subtle in that bias. The distinction between [Opinion], [News], and [the filter on which stories are given prominence based on our bias] is significantly stronger at msnbc than it is at faux. If that is simply because FOX is better at the whole propaganda bit has yet to be determined.

[This still says nothing about the relationship between medicare and the public option, or how they are the same or different. Imagine that I hadn't brought up fox, if you can.]

What makes you think that welfare is a concern, or that health care reform is even about the uninsured? Be objective lol. Also, not sure about fewer administrative costs, or reduction in costs. What I am sure about is longer waiting times and less doctors. I'm also interested in another trillion dollars on top of Obama's astronomical deficit spending. But I'll look over administrative costs tomorrow.

I'm largely ignoring the bill at this point, and instead looking at whether or not it was a good idea as an opening move. We could have opened a Nuclear Power plant for all the fuss this has been worth.

I'm definitely for tort reform and it's largely why doctor's are so damn expensive. In fact, tort reform is a more realistic reform at this point than Obamacare.... [/B][/QUOTE]
But it is only a very small fraction of the costs of healthcare. The facts back this up. Obama, at the healtcare "summit" observed this when [generic republican congressman]'s suggestion regarding Tort reform was brought up. He said something to the effect of 'this issue is about 5% [I might be remembering that number wrong, but it wasn't very big-- eight maybe?] of total costs. We can't fix the system with only tort reform.' (Also, I am generally opposed to protecting the interests of corporations against the interests of individuals.)

EDIT

Why must the government intervene? What makes the government any different than the health care companies? They don't have limits. Government shouldn't intervene in the private sector at all, at least those are my thoughts.

Well, because the government can (theoretically) be motivated by something other than economic self interest (like the welfare of its citizens, or at least each representative's respective constituents) it can move to counter, for example, incentives leading to arbitrarily low quality (like lead paint from China).

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
But it is only a very small fraction of the costs of healthcare. The facts back this up. Obama, at the healtcare "summit" observed this when [generic republican congressman]'s suggestion regarding Tort reform was brought up. He said something to the effect of 'this issue is about 5% [I might be remembering that number wrong, but it wasn't very big-- eight maybe?] of total costs. We can't fix the system with only tort reform.' (Also, I am generally opposed to protecting the interests of corporations against the interests of individuals.) [/B]

I'll get back to medicare and public option tomorrow, I'm tired and it's a long argument.. I'll address this in the meantime. What do you mean it's a small fraction of the cost of health care. Says who? You're going to show me that ADA/AMA website?

Btw, you can't seriously believe the government protects the interests of the individuals...

Btw, you can't seriously believe the government protects the interests of the individuals...

No, but they could at least not flash that fact in our faces. I mean, I get that big [oil, agribusiness, candy, etc.] has Uncle Sam in its pocket, but they could at least pretend to follow the rules regarding the mulching of children's souls, couldn't they?

[edited for ninjapoast]

Why must the government intervene? What makes the government any different than the health care companies? They don't have limits. Government shouldn't intervene in the private sector at all, at least those are my thoughts.

Well, because the government can (theoretically) be motivated by something other than economic self interest (like the welfare of its citizens, or at least each representative's respective constituents) it can move to counter, for example, incentives leading to arbitrarily low quality (like lead paint from China).

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
No, but they could at least not flash that fact in our faces. I mean, I get that big [oil, agribusiness, candy, etc.] has Uncle Sam in its pocket, but they could at least pretend to follow the rules regarding the mulching of children's souls, couldn't they?

Yea, I miss the 50s.

Well, because the government can (theoretically) be motivated by something other than economic self interest (like the welfare of its citizens, or at least each representative's respective constituents) it can move to counter, for example, incentives leading to arbitrarily low quality (like lead paint from China). [/B]

I can theoretically get into harvard law school, if I have sexual relations with the entire male admissions council( you see where I'm going with this).

Also, you'd be surprised how many politicians have a financial stake in the big companies.

Also, you'd be surprised how many politicians have a financial stake in the big companies.

No, I don't think I would. That is the companies' mechanism for control.

i feel bad because i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

It is about the health care bill, and if it was needed or not, and if they did it right and how the idealized version (that we learn in school) of how our world works is actually not accurate at all.

And how it kinda sucks to be living your life and then get slapped with how terrible the world actually is. (That subtext might only be there for me though?)

well i guess it was a bit of an exaggeration on my part to say i have no idea what you guys are talking about; i get the basic gist. however i dont really know nor understand economics... at all; same with politics.

ironically i have a better grasp of human psychology than i do of politics

and, for the record, i approve of your colorful metaphors. theyre doin it for me.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
It is about the health care bill, and if it was needed or not, and if they did it right and how the idealized version (that we learn in school) of how our world works is actually not accurate at all.

If it was about the health bill, the Democrats would have listened to the American people and not shoved it down our throats. If it was about the health care bill, they would have taken a step back and voted on individuals provisions, many of which Republicans and Democrats agreed on. If it was about the health care bill, they wouldn't have considered "deem and pass." I could go on but you get the point.

And how it kinda sucks to be living your life and then get slapped with how terrible the world actually is. (That subtext might only be there for me though?) [/B]

Try thinking you grew up in the wrong time period. I only dream of the prosperity of the 50s-80s.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
If it was about the health bill, the Democrats would have listened to the American people and not shoved it down our throats. If it was about the health care bill, they would have taken a step back and voted on individuals provisions, many of which Republicans and Democrats agreed on. If it was about the health care bill, they wouldn't have considered "deem and pass." I could go on but you get the point.

you... do understand the context of his statement that youre referring to here right?

also, beefy, how come you never venture out into the general discussion forum? it seems to me that youd be in your element considering your knowledge and interest in the economy and in politics. in fact this is the only part of kmc you ever post in... any reason for that? just curious.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
you... do understand the context of his statement that youre referring to here right?

I do.

also, beefy, how come you never venture out into the general discussion forum? it seems to me that youd be in your element considering your knowledge and interest in the economy and in politics. in fact this is the only part of kmc you ever post in... any reason for that? just curious. [/B]

Because I originally came here for star wars and I like to mix star wars and politics/economics. Plus, I don't have too much faith in the "general forum".

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
If it was about the health bill, the Democrats would have listened to the American people and not shoved it down our throats. If it was about the health care bill, they would have taken a step back and voted on individuals provisions, many of which Republicans and Democrats agreed on. If it was about the health care bill, they wouldn't have considered "deem and pass." I could go on but you get the point.

Try thinking you grew up in the wrong time period. I only dream of the prosperity of the 50s-80s.


Yeah um that wasn't even remotely germane.

and, for the record, i approve of your colorful metaphors. theyre doin it for me.

Noted like a twitch in a... psychologist convention? Oh god I'm so tired. This is an omen, a sign, a portent, and a slap to the face with a small fish all rolled into one.

I'm out.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Yeah um that wasn't even remotely germane.

I'm dead tired and unless I missed something, that was a perfect response to your "it's about the health bill" statement.

Do... do you people ever shut up about politics?

😂

well in all fairness, what else is there to talk about here? 😐 star wars? 😐

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Do... do you people ever shut up about politics?

Sometimes we talk about kittens!

awwwwwwwwwwwwww 😍

allergic to cats though, so forget that

dogs?

dogs are full of victory and justice.

The smelly ones aren't.