Atheist morality

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
[b]Yes, it is called Humanism or Secular Humanism.

****tard. [/B][/QUOTE]

And how do you know that Atheist Morality is always Humanism? I consider myself Humanist in many ways, but I am not Athiest.

Sure, Humanism was the START in the movement of non-religious morality, but not all Athiests of today are Humanistic.

And no name calling please....ur freakn user name is Adam Poe, THAT is enough to laugh at, so don't even get me started.

You HAVE said that morality is all subjective, how it doesn't exist, and all that BS, so don't deny it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And how do you know that Atheist Morality is always Humanism? I consider myself Humanist in many ways, but I am not Athiest.

Nowhere have I stated that all athiests are Humanists. However, even if we presume that all athiests are Humanists, it does not follow from this that all Humanists are atheists.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sure, Humanism was the START in the movement of non-religious morality, but not all Athiests of today are Humanistic.

If I had argued that all athiests are Humanists, you would almost have a point. However, there is no single ideology that all atheists share. Many athiests are also Buddhists, Humanists, Materialists, Naturalists, and so on.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And no name calling please....ur freakn user name is Adam Poe, THAT is enough to laugh at, so don't even get me started.

By all means, get started. On your best day, you are not half as intelligent as I am on my worst day.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You HAVE said that morality is all subjective, how it doesn't exist, and all that BS, so don't deny it.

Nowhere have I stated that morality does not exist. To the contrary, the following post indicates that not only does morality exist, but that it can be completely independent of religious belief:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

[quote]Originally posted by Darth Revan

[Atheist morality] Is there such a thing?

Yes, it is called Humanism or Secular Humanism.[/quote]

Moreover, morality is subjective. If morality was absolute, then there would not be cultural relativism.

That's not true, it would just mean that many, if not all, cultures had got it wrong.

I don't know why people think that the idea of objective morality automatically means everyone's interpretation of what is moral would be identical.

Atheists often attempt to find a basis for this outside of the spiritual.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ushgarak....that's what you don't get. There are people like Adam Poe who are argue that morals do not exist. Therefore if we simply accept his argument as to avoid a change in subject, then it may derail the debate in another direction.

If we are talking about Athiest Morality then I beleive we have to be under the common assumption that morality DOES exist. Whether or not it is independent of religion is a whole other story.

That's basically all I was trying to get across, I didn't mean to get off topic.

Don't assume I don't get it. Fact is, that is an argument for a different thread.

If a thread requires an assunption to work, then fine. Don't like the assumption? Don't bother with the thread. Easy.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nowhere have I stated that all athiests are Humanists. However, even if we presume that all athiests are Humanists, it does not follow from this that all Humanists are atheists.

You just referred to Athiest Morality as Humanism or Secular Humanism...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If I had argued that all athiests are Humanists, you would almost have a point. However, there is no single ideology that all atheists share. Many athiests are also Buddhists, Humanists, Materialists, Naturalists, and so on..

Yes, something we both know. I don't care to have a point against you, I only care that you are not trying to say that the only morality Athiests have is a Humanistic one. Now that i know you have no stated this, let's end it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By all means, get started. On your best day, you are not half as intelligent as I am on my worst day. .

😆 And you know this how ? Nice 5th grade insult, you are SO CUTE !!!

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nowhere have I stated that morality does not exist. To the contrary, the following post indicates that not only does morality exist, but that it can be completely independent of religious belief:.

You have stated on the Abortion threads that morality is only subjective (suggesting that intuitive morality is non existant) and that I was wrong to apply it to Abortion. Please stop being a hypocrit ok?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Yes, it is called Humanism or Secular Humanism

Moreover, morality is subjective. If morality was absolute, then there would not be cultural relativism.

I beleive nothing to be absolute. Not as far as we know. Although morality differs from person to person, it does exist. The mental existances are just as valid as the physical.

NE WAY...just so i dont stay off topic......Ofcourse Athiests have a morality, a morality that can be equal to, better, or worse than that of a religious person.

We both seem to agree that you don't need to be religious to have morals. However, since some Athiests may lack a religion, I beleive thier morality to be a mixture of intuitive feelings AND logic based on thier experiences.

I beleive that religious people, not all, but many, have an almost "programmed" morality since they were taught thier morals from a young age.

I believe most Athiests to have a more Unique morality since they had to learn on thier own, however.....i feel that both religious people AND Athiests may have an intuitive ability to decide right from wrong, WITHOUT prior experience to justify thier beleifs.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You just referred to Athiest Morality as Humanism or Secular Humanism...

As well as Buddhism, Materialism, Naturalism, and so on.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, something we both know. I don't care to have a point against you, I only care that you are not trying to say that the only morality Athiests have is a Humanistic one. Now that i know you have no stated this, let's end it.

I should not have to clarify something that I never stated in the first place. Perhaps you should have been certain what it is that is being stated before you started it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
😆 And you know this how ? Nice 5th grade insult, you are SO CUTE !!!

By the inane stupidity that you demonstrate in every illogical, rhetorical, and otherwise, irrelevant post.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You have stated on the Abortion threads that morality is only subjective (suggesting that intuitive morality is non existant) and that I was wrong to apply it to Abortion. Please stop being a hypocrit ok?

Why would one argue that morality is subjective if he believes that morality is non-existent? Stop arguing like a complete idiot.

Perhaps an atheist morality would be a more universal, and more accepting morality. The reason for this thought is that atheist morality should include the knowledge that their morality came from themselves and not from some more grand entity, be it government, God, society or something else. The problem that exists is that those with a self defined morality want a group to cling to oftentimes. This causes some to learn the morality of the group and not morality for themselves. I believe that any form of morality is weak if the reasoning behind the morality is not personal. Once it becomes sourced from a larger entity it becomes too absolute with little tolerance for others views.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
As well as Buddhism, Materialism, Naturalism, and so on.

Okay......

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I should not have to clarify something that I never stated in the first place. Perhaps you should have been certain what it is that is being stated before you started it.

Then why bring up the point? YOU were the one who brought this up, even before in the Abortion Threads.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By the inane stupidity that you demonstrate in every illogical, rhetorical, and otherwise, irrelevant post.

Mhhmmm.......how old are you again?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why would one argue that morality is subjective if he believes that morality is non-existent? Stop arguing like a complete idiot.

That's what I always wanted to ask you. You contradicted yourself from this thread to the abortion one. And I'm the idiot...yeah....... 🙄

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then why bring up the point? YOU were the one who brought this up, even before in the Abortion Threads.

I should not have to clarify that not all athiests are Humanists when I never stated that all athiests are Humanists. That is a statement that you attributed to me based on an inference that you made from my post.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That's what I always wanted to ask you. You contradicted yourself from this thread to the abortion one. And I'm the idiot...yeah....... 🙄

I never argued that morality is non-existent. To the contrary, I argued that morality is existent, but subjective. The perceived contradiction is based on statements that you attributed to me that I never made.

So yes, you are the idiot.

Folks, please try and stick to making constructive posts.

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"The reason for this thought is that atheist morality should include the knowledge that their morality came from themselves and not from some more grand entity, be it government, God, society or something else"

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"Should"? Why "should"? It is perfectly feasible for an atheist to believe that morals come from without.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Folks, please try and stick to making constructive posts.

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"The reason for this thought is that atheist morality should include the knowledge that their morality came from themselves and not from some more grand entity, be it government, God, society or something else"

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"Should"? Why "should"? It is perfectly feasible for an atheist to believe that morals come from without.

The original atheist that had no one to teach him morality, if he has morals, had to come to the reasoning behind them on his own. For those that believe in an "Enlightenment" or "Nirvana" type of state, the original moral person would have to have come to an understanding as to morality on his own. If the belief is held that the "Universe" or other similar idea gave him this understanding, it seems to be too similar to the idea of god to fit the term atheist.

If this doesn't properly respond to your statement, I believe that I will need more clarification as to what "come from without" is referring to.

I also assume the "Folks, please try and stick to making constructive posts" did not refer to my post?

Well, I am afraid you are simply wrong.

An atheist does not have to belief in God to belive that morals are a conceot independant of humanity.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, I am afraid you are simply wrong.

An atheist does not have to belief in God to belive that morals are a conceot independant of humanity.

I did not say this. Where, independent of humanity, does an atheists morals come from? How do morals for an atheist come into being if they are independent of humanity? I cannot concede that I am wrong without an explanation of this.

Well, now you are simply asking for a given atheist to explain such a stance. That's hardly the point. The point is, atheists can (and many do) have such a stance- a belief in an objective morality that is independant of humanity itself.

Morals don't have to come from a spirutal soruce, nor do they have to come from humans, so there is no reason why someone can't envisage a moral code independant of either.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, now you are simply asking for a given atheist to explain such a stance. That's hardly the point. The point is, atheists can (and many do) have such a stance- a belief in an objective moraity that is independant of humanity itself.

Morals don't have to come from a spirutal soruce, nor do they have to come from humans, so there is no reason why someone can envisage a moral code independant of either.

Should I start a thread posing that question? We could discuss it there if this is an inappropriate thread for the discussion.

There is no reason for someone not to define such a thing in here. My point is only that it is possible.

Not all atheists believe morals are an internal thing for humans, simple as that.

I agree it is possible.

I think that the discussion has evolved from just "Do atheists have morals?" to include the question "If so where do they come from?"

I have difficulty understanding where, independent of humanity, morals could come from that would not include something not unlike the idea of god. And my term god refers to anything that fits the parameters of the definition of God, minus the being/man type terms, especially definitions two or four.

god

NOUN:

God
1)
a) A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b) The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2) A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3) An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4) One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5) A very handsome man.
6) A powerful ruler or despot.

ohho ush rules

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There is no reason for someone not to define such a thing in here. My point is only that it is possible.

Not all atheists believe morals are an internal thing for humans, simple as that.

I sort of agree here. There is much reason to beleive that morality is also intuitive, rather than just subjective.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I sort of agree here. There is much reason to beleive that morality is also intuitive, rather than just subjective.

Intuitive is still developed in the individual, not attributed to something external and independent of humanity