The Exile, Darth Revan , Darth Malak vs ROTS Anakin, NJO luke, Yoda

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't get why people ***** about Luke being overpowered. He's the son of the chosen one with arguably the same potential. If he wasn't going to be overpowered like a force god, Anakin would have been.

Well, for one Luke is expected to be powerful but in demonstrating Luke's growth in power it makes sense (from a stroy telling perspective) to keep that growth in power within a realm that is consistent with how the character was originally envisioned which wasn't to be nigh-omnipotent.

He should be powerful but not insurmountable because afterall he's the hero and the hero needs a challenge. Anakin was written with this in mind, why not Luke, who is less talented?

Besides, I don't think GL would ever have had Anakin or anyone moving black holes in the movies, it goes against his potrayal of force sensitives as powerful but still limited.

Since when does learning ancient Sith techniques make you uber powerful?

Lets look at Exar Kun who went from being an overly average Padawan, to being the most powerful person in the galaxy. Why? Because he got knowledge from the Ancient Sith, look Nihlius and Sion who went from averaged Jedi/Sith to legitimate threats to the galaxy. Why? Because of the Ancient Sith knowledge on Malachor. For you to dismiss this simply cause you don't like Revan is pretty bullshit.

Or how does being a military tactician prevent you from getting your ass kicked in by Yoda, Luke and Anakin?

It doesn't.

And when was Revan ever said to be the greatest and strongest?

Considering he was the only Jedi capable of killing Malak, Plus being the most powerful Sith during his tenure as Dark Lord, And Sion ranks himself below Revan, and based on the sheer number of techniques, amount of knowledge, all the verbal fellating, its pretty safe to assume that he was the most powerful being in that time period. (Save for Nihlius)

And what did he ever do to distinguish himself as such? Between beating Malak and making holocrons for Bane, I'd say he was powerful but hardly uber in the grand scheme of things.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Revan's connection is constantly being described as uber to the maxX7 Right Guard power band. Mater Dorak and Vandar said that Revan has one of the strongest connections to the force they've ever seen. His name is synonymous with power. He was called the heart of the force. Ajunta Pal when he looked upon Revan described the power he saw as "blinding". You could literally SEE the force swirling around Revan as Jolee said.

He was so powerful in the force not even the combined efforts of the Jedi council could keep his mind suppressed. Revan had such control and power in the force that he literally ripped an entire dialect system out of an entire species head, the proceeded to "force" Basic into the whole races minds. If he could toy with the minds of force sensitives (The Rataka Elders) so easily he could apply the same thing to destroying the brain. The Chronicles describe his dark side power as tremendous.

Darth Bane himself, literally crapped his pants in fear of the shit Revan knew, He himself was scared of the dark power and rituals Revan had under his command as a Dark Lord, he even said he wouldn't DARE ATTEMPT half the things Revan knew.

Vandar describes him as a prodigy, he had more knowledge of the Force then Bane could ever dream of:

Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings.

Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith - The Chronicles

Revan was the strongest Sith in an order of hundreds, in turn he was the strongest Jedi in an order of thousands.

He soon discovers the shadowy Malachor V, a planet listed by Mandalorian scholars as "forbidden" to step foot on. The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side.

He overpowered and feed on a planet drenched in the dark side a planet so powerful it broke Kreia:

she travels to Malachor V, but is unable to shield her emotions, and is completely consumed by the dark side of the Force. - The Chronicles

Revan according to Brianna (The Handmaiden) had the most powerful Battle Precognition the Galaxy had seen to that point, more powerful then the strongest of the Echani who could see MONTHS into the future and see battles before they even happened.

Then we have the fact that in Path of Destruction Revan is mentioned along side Exar Kun and Naga Sadow (they had no idea his feats were done by Amulet and ship) as the most power Sith, He is what Bane strives to be like.

Revan has beaten Malak on the Star Forge twice while he was being described by the databank as near invincible, and subsequently beat your girl the "force juggernaut" Bastila WHILE she was being pumped by the Star Foge FOUR TIMES. He beat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura, destroyed the Academy on Korriban. And he must have been physically extremely strong as well since he beat Madalore in hand to hand combat according to NEC.

He was also described as stronger as a Jedi then his tenure as Dark Lord (the version Bane pissed his pants over) then he REGAINS his knowledge from his run as a Dark Lord thus doubling his power.

Really stop the Revan hate, you act like he only ever did two things.

And Malak infused with the SF got curbstomped just like any other Sith, a sign of Revan's power or Malak's incompetence? Difficult to say, as both arguments are valid if you want to emphasize the significance of the SF.

I'd rank Kreia, Sion and Nihilus above Malak in ds force power. They all three showed their competence in the force without some supposed all powerful artifact backing them up.

And so did Malak, Did you miss the part where he simultaneously chokes, lightnings and tosses his saber to kill 3 Jedi in a couple seconds? With the SF backing him he is pretty uber, no matter how much you may dislike it. Dude stop being a hater.

While I give you mad props for the Revan argument, quite a lot of it is pretty flawed, and I think you're reading a bit too much into certain things.

Revan's connection is constantly being described as uber to the maxX7 Right Guard power band. Mater Dorak and Vandar said that Revan has one of the strongest connections to the force they've ever seen. His name is synonymous with power. He was called the heart of the force. Ajunta Pal when he looked upon Revan described the power he saw as "blinding". You could literally SEE the force swirling around Revan as Jolee said.

The thing is, pretty much every powerful force user is described in the same light, so in terms of separating Revan from the others, this doesn't really do that. All it does is say that he was very powerful in the force, that's it, but in comparison to the other Star Wars powerhouses, it doesn't really say that much. You also have to sort through what's accurate and what's exaggerated, and the problem is, because Revan has so few solid facts backing him up, there's not really enough backing him up to being as powerful as you might think.

He was so powerful in the force not even the combined efforts of the Jedi council could keep his mind suppressed.

This is 100% false. The council were using Revan to try and locate the Star Forge, so they quite clearly wanted him to be slowly regaining his memories. It is in no way indicated that they actually couldn't suppress his mind.

Revan had such control and power in the force that he literally ripped an entire dialect system out of an entire species head, the proceeded to "force" Basic into the whole races minds. If he could toy with the minds of force sensitives (The Rataka Elders) so easily he could apply the same thing to destroying the brain. The Chronicles describe his dark side power as tremendous.

You're looking too far into this, all he did was use the force to learn their language, and use the force to program basic into their minds. I'm really not seeing what's so special about this.

Darth Bane himself, literally crapped his pants in fear of the shit Revan knew, He himself was scared of the dark power and rituals Revan had under his command as a Dark Lord, he even said he wouldn't DARE ATTEMPT half the things Revan knew.

You seem to think that unlike Bane, Revan would have been perfectly comfortable with attempting these rituals, when it's much more likely that he was just as hesitant as Bane was to try these rituals (given the nature of rituals such as the thought bomb). The point is, simply knowing the techniques and recording that knowledge in his holocron doesn't necessarily mean that he would have ever performed these rituals or anything, though it does speak for how devastating some of the rituals he knew were.

Vandar describes him as a prodigy, he had more knowledge of the Force then Bane could ever dream of:

Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings.

Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith - The Chronicles

Revan's knowledge was very impressive, yes, but most of that knowledge consisted of ritual lore of the sith, which can't be utilised in combat scenarios in this context.

Revan was the strongest Sith in an order of hundreds, in turn he was the strongest Jedi in an order of thousands.

He soon discovers the shadowy Malachor V, a planet listed by Mandalorian scholars as "forbidden" to step foot on. The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side.

He overpowered and feed on a planet drenched in the dark side a planet so powerful it broke Kreia:

she travels to Malachor V, but is unable to shield her emotions, and is completely consumed by the dark side of the Force. - The Chronicles

Perhaps Kreia was extremely weak willed. By that logic, The Exile's willpower is on the next level too. And I don't really know what The Chronicles are talking about here, because Revan was consumed by the darkside, this is made clear throughout the games and PoD. And are The Chronicles even canon? According to Ush in The EU thread, it might not be.

Revan according to Brianna (The Handmaiden) had the most powerful Battle Precognition the Galaxy had seen to that point, more powerful then the strongest of the Echani who could see MONTHS into the future and see battles before they even happened.

Did she even know Revan? And could this technique be applicable in combat scenarios in this context, because it certainly didn't help him from predicting his ship getting blasted on by Malak.

Then we have the fact that in Path of Destruction Revan is mentioned along side Exar Kun and Naga Sadow (they had no idea his feats were done by Amulet and ship) as the most power Sith, He is what Bane strives to be like.

100% unsupported (refer to [BOLD]).

Revan has beaten Malak on the Star Forge twice while he was being described by the databank as near invincible, and subsequently beat your girl the "force juggernaut" Bastila WHILE she was being pumped by the Star Foge FOUR TIMES. He beat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura, destroyed the Academy on Korriban. And he must have been physically extremely strong as well since he beat Madalore in hand to hand combat according to NEC.

Not necessarily, he might have just been extremely technically gifted in unarmed combat, and his jedi reflexes, precognition and force sensing would certainly give him a few advantages. He might have also just amped up his speed and strength with the force. This in no way indicates that his physical strength was immense or anything.

He was also described as stronger as a Jedi then his tenure as Dark Lord (the version Bane pissed his pants over) then he REGAINS his knowledge from his run as a Dark Lord thus doubling his power.

How would that double his power? By that logic, Count Dooku's power should have doubled after turning to the darkside.

While I give you mad props for the Revan argument, quite a lot of it is pretty flawed, and I think you're reading a bit too much into certain things.

Not really, this argument(my post) is rather old and has already been dissected by people before and I've defended every point, I'm not gonna go into full detail here but I will defend the gist of your points.

The thing is, pretty much every powerful force user is described in the same light, so in terms of separating Revan from the others, this doesn't really do that. All it does is say that he was very powerful in the force, that's it, but in comparison to the other Star Wars powerhouses, it doesn't really say that much. You also have to sort through what's accurate and what's exaggerated, and the problem is, because Revan has so few solid facts backing him up, there's not really enough backing him up to being as powerful as you might think.

The other SW force powerhouses being Luke, Yoda, Exar Kun, maybe Jacen...am I missing anyone...when he's being talked of like that it puts him on these poeple's level, that was the point.

This is 100% false. The council were using Revan to try and locate the Star Forge, so they quite clearly wanted him to be slowly regaining his memories. It is in no way indicated that they actually couldn't suppress his mind.

No they clearly didn't want his full memory to come back, they thought that by just being in these locations plus the little visions he and Bastila were having would reveal the location of the star maps which they could use(and did) to find the Star Forge, They were very worried the real Revan might return, just look at all Vrooks talking of how the Dark Lord might return and there constant debate. They hoped the force would allow bits and pieces, which is what happened since even after learning his identity Revan still didn't remember shit.

You're looking too far into this, all he did was use the force to learn their language, and use the force to program basic into their minds. I'm really not seeing what's so special about this.

Do you know how hard it is to tear things out of someones mind and in turn shove shit in, Jacen attempted to rip something out of a prisoners mind in Sacrifice(I think that was the name) and due to his lack of control he caused an aneurysm and killed her. Now the fact that Revan did this too and entire species, didn't kill them and even shove anther dialect system into there minds is damn impressive.

You seem to think that unlike Bane, Revan would have been perfectly comfortable with attempting these rituals, when it's much more likely that he was just as hesitant as Bane was to try these rituals (given the nature of rituals such as the thought bomb). The point is, simply knowing the techniques and recording that knowledge in his holocron doesn't necessarily mean that he would have ever performed these rituals or anything, though it does speak for how devastating some of the rituals he knew were.

Revan's knowledge was very impressive, yes, but most of that knowledge consisted of ritual lore of the sith, which can't be utilised in combat scenarios in this context.

And you can prove that how...considering the little taste of the knowledge on Malachor that we get a taste of (Sion, Nihlius and Traya) I'd say there was more then enough offensive force powers on the planet, namely the force drain, how to utilize the force to sustain life, how to apply the force into storms, not only that but the fact what Kreia and company got was a previously plundered by Revan and all that was left of the underground cites of knowledge was one Academy, again I'd say Revan had more then enough in terms of combat knowledge.

Perhaps Kreia was extremely weak willed. By that logic, The Exile's willpower is on the next level too. And I don't really know what The Chronicles are talking about here, because Revan was consumed by the darkside, this is made clear throughout the games and PoD. And are The Chronicles even canon? According to Ush in The EU thread, it might not be.

Leeland Chee > Forum Moderator.

Its obvious the extreme dark taint that tried to corrupt Revan and did break Kreia is gone since people like Mira, Hanharr, random sith n00bs can all walk upon the planet, likely Kreia removed it to allow weaker students to come and train.

Revan choose to turn to the Dark Side, all his actions were his own, albeit he was a supremely evil dude who whether directly or indirectly killed many, his actions were his own, the fact that after the massacre of Malachor he even shys away from such violence while his lessers revel in it (Malak)

I'll also admit while his vision may be corrupted a bit, I think we jump to far to explain that every wrong thing a force user does is the Dark Side, why can't someone simply choose to do act without the force guiding or controlling them? As Kreia said when the Exile goes on about what a monster Revan was that was tainted by the Dark Side she responds with "Was he? Or was he always true to himself no matter what teachings he followed?" Revan accepted the Dark Side, it didn't break him. But enough of my ramblings...

Did she even know Revan? And could this technique be applicable in combat scenarios in this context, because it certainly didn't help him from predicting his ship getting blasted on by Malak.

It clearly is since the Exile was doing it and training with Brianna to enhance it. Malaks turn was a spru of the moment impulse decision and Revan was likely focusing on the you know 4 Jedi standing in front of him.

100% unsupported (refer to [BOLD]).

I've already argued this, there is no way they'd know either Exar or Naga used there ship or amulets to power themselves, since the book attributes the feats directly to them, and the book seems to put Naga on a higher pedestal then Markas Ragnos which basing on feats alone if the didn't have the knowledge that he was using an amulet and ship, Naga does look MUCH more powerful then Naga Sadow.

Not necessarily, he might have just been extremely technically gifted in unarmed combat, and his jedi reflexes, precognition and force sensing would certainly give him a few advantages. He might have also just amped up his speed and strength with the force. This in no way indicates that his physical strength was immense or anything.

Even though the previous Mandalore could compete with Ulic while he was using the force, its pretty evident that the Taungs are pretty damn strong despite not being force sensitive, Revan still would have had to try (like Ulic did) to beat him. Also that means he's pretty physically strong like Ulic. I admit though I was exaggerating a bit.

How would that double his power? By that logic, Count Dooku's power should have doubled after turning to the darkside.

Did Dooku have a previous identity that knew a shit load of Sith powers and rituals? No. Did he have a previous identity that knew how to utilize the force in ways that he could create force storms and such? No. I'm using Exar Kun as a basis, that while he was a Jedi he was strong and even turning to the dark side he was pretty strong but after gathering all that knowledge he ascends to "most powerful being in the galaxy" If only Sith knowledge makes that much of a leap in power then Revan who was pretty beastly as a Jedi regains more knowledge then Exar could ever dream of, thus the huge power leap.

Originally posted by allfg
The thing is, pretty much every powerful force user is described in the same light, so in terms of separating Revan from the others, this doesn't really do that. All it does is say that he was very powerful in the force, that's it, but in comparison to the other Star Wars powerhouses, it doesn't really say that much. You also have to sort through what's accurate and what's exaggerated, and the problem is, because Revan has so few solid facts backing him up, there's not really enough backing him up to being as powerful as you might think.

This is 100% false. The council were using Revan to try and locate the Star Forge, so they quite clearly wanted him to be slowly regaining his memories. It is in no way indicated that they actually couldn't suppress his mind.

You're looking too far into this, all he did was use the force to learn their language, and use the force to program basic into their minds. I'm really not seeing what's so special about this.

You seem to think that unlike Bane, Revan would have been perfectly comfortable with attempting these rituals, when it's much more likely that he was just as hesitant as Bane was to try these rituals (given the nature of rituals such as the thought bomb). The point is, simply knowing the techniques and recording that knowledge in his holocron doesn't necessarily mean that he would have ever performed these rituals or anything, though it does speak for how devastating some of the rituals he knew were.

Revan's knowledge was very impressive, yes, but most of that knowledge consisted of ritual lore of the sith, which can't be utilised in combat scenarios in this context.

Perhaps Kreia was extremely weak willed. By that logic, The Exile's willpower is on the next level too. And I don't really know what The Chronicles are talking about here, because Revan was consumed by the darkside, this is made clear throughout the games and PoD. And are The Chronicles even canon? According to Ush in The EU thread, it might not be.

Did she even know Revan? And could this technique be applicable in combat scenarios in this context, because it certainly didn't help him from predicting his ship getting blasted on by Malak.

So far all you've done was tell us what something "May" mean in terms of the dialogue, hoping to discredit Revan. Unfortunately when we provide facts, you don't have much of an argument using(well maybe she meant this).

Who has Revan and Malak killed? Who killed them? Someone please tell me.

A lot of these Revan descriptions are hyperbole. Malak is said to be virtually invincible in some EU sources yet he was killed - kinda defeats the purpose of being "invincible" doesn't it? What do we call that? Hyperbole. Nothing about Malak in gameplay or the story as it was told (Malak was stated as being weaker than Revan in the force) suggest that Malak was anywhere near "invincible".

I'd also like to disagree with styles statement about Revan being the only Jedi who could beat Malak. That's purely speculation, given that Revan was the only Jedi with the knowledge of the SF's location, circumstance not necessity made sure that it was him that confronted Malak.

Malak didn't even have to be killed to end the JCW, it was the Star Forge that needed to be destroyed. So, I don't believe Revan was the only Jedi who could beat Malak (not that I have alternative candidates).

Secondly, as concerns Revan's force powers what has he ever done specifically to distinguish himself as being the strongest and most powerful Jedi in his time? His feats by themselves don't talk loudly enough to distinguish him as the uber Jedi of his time, so what do the fanboy's do?

Reference shallow third party descriptives that don't do anything to frame Revan's power in comparison to other powerful Jedi. Or worse, exxagerate the capabilities of certain characters e.g Bastila and Malak at the SF. So in summary, the Revan fans are doing nothing but making assumptions off of non comperative descriptions.

The last point I'll address is the assumption that Revans studies of the ancient Sith automatically equate to power. In what specific magnitude do these sith teachings translate to combat effective power? And making assumptions off of their effects on other characters shouldn't be acceptable.

Originally posted by Allankles
A lot of these Revan descriptions are hyperbole. Malak is said to be virtually invincible in some EU sources yet he was killed - kinda defeats the purpose of being "invincible" doesn't it? What do we call that? Hyperbole. Nothing about Malak in gameplay or the story as it was told (Malak was stated as being weaker than Revan in the force) suggest that Malak was anywhere near "invincible".

I'd also like to disagree with styles statement about Revan being the only Jedi who could beat Malak. That's purely speculation, given that Revan was the only Jedi with the knowledge of the SF's location, circumstance not necessity made sure that it was him that confronted Malak.

Malak didn't even have to be killed to end the JCW, it was the Star Forge that needed to be destroyed. So, I don't believe Revan was the only Jedi who could beat Malak (not that I have alternative candidates).

Secondly, as concerns Revan's force powers what has he ever done specifically to distinguish himself as being the strongest and most powerful Jedi in his time? His feats by themselves don't talk loudly enough to distinguish him as the uber Jedi of his time, so what do the fanboy's do?

Reference shallow third party descriptives that don't do anything to frame Revan's power in comparison to other powerful Jedi. Or worse, exxagerate the capabilities of certain characters e.g Bastila and Malak at the SF. So in summary, the Revan fans are doing nothing but making assumptions off of non comperative descriptions.

The last point I'll address is the assumption that Revans studies of the ancient Sith automatically equate to power. In what specific magnitude do these sith teachings translate to combat effective power? And making assumptions off of their effects on other characters shouldn't be acceptable. [/B]

A lot of these Revan descriptions are hyperbole.

No, there not simply cause you want them to be doesn't make it so.

Malak is said to be virtually invincible in some EU sources

The databank isn't just some EU source

yet he was killed -

By an extremely powerful force user named Revan.

kinda defeats the purpose of being "invincible" doesn't it?

It was Revan who killed him, so no not really

What do we call that? Hyperbole.

No, we call that getting beaten by Revan who was stated to be stronger then his tenure as Dark Lord.

(Malak was stated as being weaker than Revan in the force)

So...thats a knock on him how? The majority of Star Wars is weaker then Revan in the force.

Nothing about Malak in gameplay or the story as it was told suggest that Malak was anywhere near "invincible".

Except for his gameplay stats by then end of the game are off the charts in the d20 system. What you don't seem to get is this is STAR FORGE Malak, when he's being boosted by the Star Forge he's near invincible. FACT.

That's purely speculation, given that Revan was the only Jedi with the knowledge of the SF's location

You act as if Malak sat on the Star Forge all day every day, its was shown clear as day him over Taris, he personally led the attack on Dantooine and went down to finish off the remaining Jedi, he dueled the likes of Kavar and won, The Jedi had NUMEROUS opportunities to kill Malak if any of them had the skill to do so.

circumstance not necessity made sure that it was him that confronted Malak.

And yet every other Jedi they sent on the strike team was you know, killed. And every other time they've had an chance to kill Malak they you know, failed.

Malak didn't even have to be killed to end the JCW, it was the Star Forge that needed to be destroyed.

What is your point? The Jedi initially didn't know of the Star Forge, the logical answer to end the war would be kill the Sith Lords, then even if the SF was destroyed the Sith are still there and would thus continue the war, killing Malak wasn't the objective of the Battle of Rataka Prime but it was an objective of winning the JCW, hence why they tried to capture Revan.

(not that I have alternative candidates).

Then shut the f*ck up...

Secondly, as concerns Revan's force powers what has he ever done specifically to distinguish himself as being the strongest and most powerful Jedi in his time? His feats by themselves don't talk loudly enough to distinguish him as the uber Jedi of his time, so what do the fanboy's do?

Um how does creating force storms, being able to rip a dialect system out of species heads and shove things in and NOT kill them( something Jacen Solo in LOTF couldn't even do to a single person) Overpowering a planet full of Dark Side energy that in turn broke Kreia, just to name a few, NOT speak loudly for Revan? The answer...you sir are a hater.

Reference shallow third party descriptives that don't do anything to frame Revan's power in comparison to other powerful Jedi. So in summary, the Revan fans are doing nothing but making assumptions off of non comperative descriptions.

Shallow third party characters? Kreia the person who knew him most is disregarded? EU sources are disregarded simply cause you don't like what they say?In summary you have no clue what your talking about, and is talking out his ass simply cause he doesn't like Revan.

The last point I'll address is the assumption that Revans studies of the ancient Sith automatically equate to power. In what specific magnitude do these sith teachings translate to combat effective power? And making assumptions off of their effects on other characters shouldn't be acceptable.

If I may ask why not? Considering Revan has more knowledge then Kun, the same Ancient Sith knowledge that turned him into the most powerful being in the galaxy. Moreover, the exact same knowledge he has MORE of turned Sion and Nihlius into some of the most powerful things in the galaxy, and bumped Kreias power up. How does that NOT mean the knowedgle Revan has would do the same for him? The answer...your a hater.

In all your argument devolves down to: "I don't like Revan as a character therefor he sucks! And he'd get beaten by the people I like since there cool!"

I just joined into this thread. After reading most posts, I have to overall say that the new guys win. Malak seamed to be strong in the force, and therefore Yoda would be more than a match for him. Revan and the exile seamed to be balanced with saber mastering and force mastery. Therefore NJO Luke and Anakin could, in my opinion, take on the two well.
In the end, aftter a long tough match, Yoda and the Skywalkers walk away with a win.

Stating that Malak was "invincible" and then having him die through physical damage defeats the purpose of calling him invincible in the first place. He is either invincible and embodies all that that word entails or its merely hyperbole. I rest my case.

And I didn't say shallow characters, I said shallow descriptives. Find me any depth in saying, 'Revan was power'. How many Jedi/Sith could be described in such a manner? We know Revan is powerful based on what he has done, not some shallow one sentence description of his force potential.

And based on what he's done I couldn't with any certainty claim he was the most powerful of his era. Because his greatest accomplishment to date was beating Malak who was purpotedly always weaker than him.

This was not like Anakin beating up Dooku after he got mutilated by said character in a previous meeting.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

If I may ask why not? Considering Revan has more knowledge then Kun, the same Ancient Sith knowledge that turned him into the most powerful being in the galaxy. Moreover, the exact same knowledge he has MORE of turned Sion and Nihlius into some of the most powerful things in the galaxy, and bumped Kreias power up. How does that NOT mean the knowedgle Revan has would do the same for him? The answer...your a hater.

In all your argument devolves down to: "I don't like Revan as a character therefor he sucks! And he'd get beaten by the people I like since there cool!" [/B]

Why not? That's specualtion, I asked what did that Sith knowledge do for Revan, and all you can answer is why not?

It bumped those guys because those characters lived out the rest of their lives as Sith, because those characters surrendered to the dark side Revan didn't according to many sources.

It brought him to a betrayal by Malak, it took him to the edge of the galaxy after Kotor 1, it has done nothing more for him based on what story there is.

You can write hater in a thousands posts but I deal with the evidence, and all an uber Revan is to me is hyperbole and specualtion, nothing more. Until we deal in the actual meaningful (combat related) feats and accomplishments, its all just supposition on your part.

Originally posted by Allankles
Stating that Malak was "invincible" and then having him die through physical damage defeats the purpose of calling him invincible in the first place. He is either invincible and embodies all that that word entails or its merely hyperbole. I rest my case.

I'd be nice if you learned to read: I said "near " invincible.

And I didn't say shallow characters, I said shallow descriptives. Find me any depth in saying, 'Revan was power'. How many Jedi/Sith could be described in such a manner?

Are they? No. Really I'd only say about 5 at the most. I don't have to find shit for you, so because the character lacks the depth you require to be your "fav" it makes him weak?

We know Revan is powerful based on what he has done, not some shallow one sentence description of his force potential.

Its called supplementing an argument, and it saves debates from becoming feat wars, which is what you seem to think determines power, if were going by your ingenious logic Revan performed a feat Jacen in LOTF couldn't do, Jacen is the second strongest in the NJO therefore Revan is stronger and would beat everyone in the NJO save Luke, hands down without debate.

And based on what he's done I couldn't with any certainty claim he was the most powerful of his era.

Then who was? You keep retyping the same shit "He's not the strongest even though I offer no argument to counter it."

Because his greatest accomplishment to date was beating Malak who was purpotedly always weaker than him.

Again what don't you get about being near invincible, everything thats reported from the battle puts them on near equal footing. You have no point.

This was not like Anakin beating up Dooku after he got mutilated by said character in a previous meeting.

So...

Why not? That's specualtion, I asked what did that Sith knowledge do for Revan, and all you can answer is why not? It brought him to a betrayal by Malak, it took him to the edge of the galaxy after Kotor 1, it has done nothing more for him based on what story there is.

Really, how many times have we seen DARTH Revan in an story...at the most three times, we have no clue what happened with him all we know is he had a shit load of Sith powers/rituals. We've seen what these rituals/power has done to other individuals who had less knowledge then Revan. Its utterly ridicules to assume that simply cause we don't see it it doesn't happen. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of Absence.

You can write hater in a thousands posts but I deal with the evidence, and all an uber Revan is to me is hyperbole and specualtion, nothing more. Until we deal in the actual meaningful (combat related) feats and accomplishments, its all just supposition on your part.

Not really, I've more then proved my point. The only thing you've proved is that you have no clue what your talking about, you can't read, and that you have a ridicules hate for a star wars character.

It bumped those guys because those characters lived out the rest of their lives as Sith, because those characters surrendered to the dark side Revan didn't according to many sources.

Thats ridicules, explain how Exar Kun became stronger from the knowledge he attained on Dxun and Korriban even though he still hadn't fully accepted the Dark Side.

I'm talking about evidence of the effects of the Sith knowledge on Revan, as there isn't any, you have zero basis for an argument.

Feats are a viable measure of a characters force powers, Revan's feats by themselves don't distinguish him as the most powerful. Otherwise NJO Luke wouldn't be the force god that he is. Also, if feats weren't important to you why bring up Malak's near invincibility?

Besides its hyperbole if said invincibility doesn't affect the outcome of the fight outside of Revan getting wounded in said contest. Revan being wounded only proves that Malak put up a fight it doesn't prove that Malak was nearly invincible (whatever that is).

And I don't have to give candidates ( i don't care enough to do that) plus we're discussing Revan not some better candidate.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Thats ridicules, explain how Exar Kun became stronger from the knowledge he attained on Dxun and Korriban even though he still hadn't fully accepted the Dark Side.

What's ridiculous? I wasn't trying to offer some all encompassing explanation, those were simply the story writers decisions and I was only stating that Revan turned back to the light unlike the characters you mentioned.

And your point is? Revan regained all his previous memories his old personality returned and the powers along with it. The point of the Revan character is one who is not limited by what affiliation he is currently set at, and not adhering to any single dogma or any single "side" of the force. The point of Revan as it was stressed heavily in KOTOR 2 was that he was an individual. So is current affiliation has no drawbacks on his power in the force or to pull of techniques.

I'm talking about evidence of the effects of the Sith knowledge on Revan, as there isn't any, you have zero basis for an argument.

Logic says that there is. As I said Absence of Evidence isn't Evidence of Absence. We've seen the effects of other characters why would it be different for Revan?

Feats are a viable measure of a characters force powers, Revan's feats by themselves don't distinguish him as the most powerful. Otherwise NJO Luke wouldn't be the force god that he is. Also, if feats weren't important to you why bring up Malak's near invincibility?

I didn't say they were meaningless. Its just feat wars are, see my example in the last post. Revan using you logic is already more powerful then every NJO Jedi/Sith since he performed a feat Jacen(the #2) couldn't do on a mass scale.

You keep saying that "Revans feats aren't impressive" but you never say why, you never show anyone who has outdone him, thus thats why you have no argument what so ever.

Besides its hyperbole if said invincibility doesn't affect the outcome of the fight outside of Revan getting wounded in said contest. Revan being wounded only proves that Malak put up a fight it doesn't prove that Malak was nearly invincible (whatever that is).

I finding it harder and harder to find logic in your posts. What don't you get about Malak being near invincible describes how damn powerful he was? Not that he is flat out unbeatable, but if your not on Revans level its not gonna happen. Your assuming that Revan completely shitted on Malak which was not the case at all.

And I don't have to give candidates ( i don't care enough to do that) plus we're discussing Revan not some better candidate.

Then why the f*ck are you still posting? You can't just say "Well Revan isn't the best" without supporting your argument as too why, mine is simple no one in that era has displayed his level of power/force mastery therefore Revan is the best of that era. Simple.

I'm not saying "well Revan isn't the best", I'm saying that nothing Revan has done has distinguished him as the best.

And what does near invincibility mean anyway? You're either invincible or you're not. Why bother mentioning that he's nearly invincible? Do we have a measure of what it is to be nearly invincible? C'mon it's quite clearly hyperbole, credit to Malak for putting up a fight but outside of the hyperbole it doesn't tell us how strong Malak was in comparison to Revan and vice versa.