Originally posted by Vvendeta
Here is the question?Why we have to believe the juornalist saying that Superman energy is infinite, but not that Cell can destroy a Solar Sistem?
Because when Superman kill the weak Doomday clones that Batman could Kill, he Say he can not do that Again.
That is in the scan, what the journalist Say vs What Superman himself say.
You see that is not consistency here either?
that is you big argument when
you denie the logic From DBZ.If Freeza could destroy a planet.
Cell have more Energy, so for logic, he could charge a big ball of energy to destroy a solar Sistem.
And What about Buu?
Sounds logic to me.
Now Superman could be firing long Time from this author.
From others he run out of energy.
So the feat cancel each other for inconsistency.
Interesting...Let's see...
Freeza: I'll rip you to shreds
Freeza: You'll never beat me!
Freeza: I'm the strongest in the universe.
Vegeta: I'm the strongest in the universe.
Baata: I'm the fastest in the universe.
Ginyu: No one's stronger than me, except for freeza.
Piccolo: I've done it - no matter how strong he is, it doesn't matter, I just obtained ULTIMATE POWER.
Freeza(to trunks): For us to get rid of a piece of trash like you is a piece of cake.
King Cold (about Trunks): Freeza! You did it. He was no match for us.
Kind Cold(also to Trunks): You definitely can't beat me!
Vegeta(to 16, 17, and 18): I'm going to grind you to bits!
17: There can't be anyone in this world strong enough to fight me.
Cell: When I achieve my perfect form, I will be the most powerful being imaginable!
17: I'm the ultimate Warrior.
Cell: I'm impossible to kill
Cell: No one can stand against me!
Cell: If I had my perfect form, I'd be perfect in every way! I wouldn't lose to anyone!
Cell(to Gohan): Even if you lived for a hundred years, you'd never be able to kill me.
Cell(to Gohan): You can't possibly believe you could beat me.
Cell(to Gohan): There's no way I can lose to you!
Cell(to Gohan): I won't let you win!
Cell: I've gathered enough ki not only to destroy the planet, but the whole solar system!
Cell: I'm going to finish you now.
Pipi: Babi-di is on the bottom, but you'll have to get through me. You'll die here.
Dabura: If you use Yakon, they'll be defeated!
Dabura: Yakon should be strong enough to beat them easily!
Dabura: I'll finish them off.
Dabura: No one can beat me with strength.
Buu: No one could be stronger than I!
Buu: They're no match for me! Even if they Fuse!
Buu: Super Vegetto? So what?
Buu: Do you actually think you have a chance?
Buu: I won't lose to someone like you!
Buu: Haha! You're helpless.Notice a pattern?
Main Entry: trash talk
Function: noun
: disparaging, taunting, or boastful comments especially between opponents trying to intimidate each other
- trash-talk /'trash-"tok/ verb
- trash-talk·er /-"to-k&r/ noun
Main Entry: 3bluff
Function: verb
Etymology: probably from Dutch bluffen to boast, play a kind of card game
transitive verb
1 a : to deter or frighten by pretense or a mere show of strength b : DECEIVE c : FEIGN <the catcher bluffed a throw to first>
2 : to deceive (an opponent) in cards by a bold bet on an inferior hand
intransitive verb : to bluff someone : act deceptively
- bluff·er noun
Both from m-w.com.
I have no idea if these words exist in your language... but its pretty obvious that Toriyama made his characters arrogant and spout off things that werre obviously not true. Why? For entertainment purposes.
Characters are not omniscient.. they do not know that they are saying things that are false.
Main Entry: 4lie
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English lige, lie, from Old English lyge; akin to Old High German lugI, Old English lEogan to lie
1 a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker
2 : something that misleads or deceives
3 : a charge of lying
The one telling the lie doesn't even need to know that they are lieing.. it doesn't change the fact that they are indeed, lieing.
So when a character is established as being arrogant or a liar
Tell me which of these statements is true?:
Cell: When I achieve my perfect form, I will be the most powerful being imaginable!
Cell: I'm impossible to kill
Cell: No one can stand against me!
Cell: If I had my perfect form, I'd be perfect in every way! I wouldn't lose to anyone!
Cell(to Gohan): Even if you lived for a hundred years, you'd never be able to kill me.
Cell(to Gohan): You can't possibly believe you could beat me.
Cell(to Gohan): There's no way I can lose to you!
Cell(to Gohan): I won't let you win!
Cell: I've gathered enough ki not only to destroy the planet, but the whole solar system!
Cell: I'm going to finish you now.
None of them. The solar system was not destroyed when the energy was released. It was not destroyed when Gohan released his... All that energy and only a crater was made.
This is why we ask for proof.. as the characters words aren't good enough because of all the lies he tells.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Here are the calcs:Plug in the values.
Mass of the moon = 7.3477×10^22 kg
Radius of the moon = 1,737,100 m
Gravitational Constant = 6.67428^-11
GBE of the moon = approximately 1.2446e29j
The GBE of the Earth is generously provided for us in the wiki article on Gravitational Binding energy (2.24e32j)
Dividing, we get a difference of 1799.755028, or around 1800 times. So I was a little off, but the point remains. It takes 1800 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.
Now say we wanted to destroy both the Earth and Moon in one attack. The average distance from the earth to the moon is 384400 km. Due to the inverse - square law, an explosion's size is inversely proportionally to the square of its energy. So to make an explosion twice as big, you need 4 times as much energy. To make one 3 times as big, you need 9 times as much energy, etc.
An explosion destroying the Earth would have to encompass the Earth's diameter at least, which is 12,742.02 kilometers. The average distance from the moon to the Earth is 384,400 kilometers. That's about 30.2 times as large, so the explosion would need around 910.1 times as much energy. That's around 2.04e35j, or around 163,800 times as much energy required to destroy the moon.
Saiyans power ups are hard to calculate, that is what Toriyama show, higher increases in short periods of times, is not posible to aply math.
The device they have to reads power all explode.
And if G plex is trying to put it in maths, is using the basic:
Goku Normal x 20 kaioken = Freeza 40%- 50 %
Supersaiyan (Normal x 40 to 50) 100% of Freeza.
Just for you to have and idea. but the power ups are irregulars.
you can say that there is not logic, but that is a diference of opinions, i find it logical.
I understand what you're TRYING to say - but you aren't understanding that you're simply wrong.
We cannot use suppositions, guesses, extrapolations, or wishful thinking. If there isn't proof on the page, we can't pretend there is, and use any amount of arithmetic to 'show' that there is.
Oh, and Cresh, that list looks awfully familiar...😛.
Yeah you ask for feats.
I ask before if i post Goku way of fighting as Child is the feats he have, Mostly Because after Freeza Saga He just Fight Cell and Buu, so if You going to repeat me for proves that You know i don´t have (Like prove the power of Goku in SSj3) then is a dead debate and quite unfair.
Superman has more Feats solving cases, lifting heavy things.
Goku just Fight.
Your point is that Goku's more skilled?
Certainly.
Your point is that Goku can unleash a pretty powerful blast?
Of course.
The point, however, is that Superman is thousands of times faster than Goku - Goku'll never have the chance to fire off a kamehameha. The point is, Goku and the Z-cast are no where NEAR as strong as Superman, but still hurt each other with physical punches - a punch from Superman would eviscerate any of them.
If Superman stood still and let Goku go all out on him? Yeah, I think Superman would likely be a little more than scathed. 😛.
But Superman doesn't need to do that. He can attack Goku at a thousand times the speed of light, and, literally, punch his head off - all before Goku can even react.
Originally posted by Soljer
Your point is that Goku's more skilled?Certainly.
Your point is that Goku can unleash a pretty powerful blast?
Of course.
[b]The
point, however, is that Superman is thousands of times faster than Goku - Goku'll never have the chance to fire off a kamehameha. The point is, Goku and the Z-cast are no where NEAR as strong as Superman, but still hurt each other with physical punches - a punch from Superman would eviscerate any of them.If Superman stood still and let Goku go all out on him? Yeah, I think Superman would likely be a little more than scathed. 😛.
But Superman doesn't need to do that. He can attack Goku at a thousand times the speed of light, and, literally, punch his head off - all before Goku can even react. [/B]
I would like to see that scans when he fights at 1000 times the light of Speed, being in other Forums and never See it, not Precrisis feats, i know he can. but post crisis.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Here are the calcs:Plug in the values.
Mass of the moon = 7.3477×10^22 kg
Radius of the moon = 1,737,100 m
Gravitational Constant = 6.67428^-11
GBE of the moon = approximately 1.2446e29j
The GBE of the Earth is generously provided for us in the wiki article on Gravitational Binding energy (2.24e32j)
Dividing, we get a difference of 1799.755028, or around 1800 times. So I was a little off, but the point remains. It takes 1800 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.
Now say we wanted to destroy both the Earth and Moon in one attack. The average distance from the earth to the moon is 384400 km. Due to the inverse - square law, an explosion's size is inversely proportionally to the square of its energy. So to make an explosion twice as big, you need 4 times as much energy. To make one 3 times as big, you need 9 times as much energy, etc.
An explosion destroying the Earth would have to encompass the Earth's diameter at least, which is 12,742.02 kilometers. The average distance from the moon to the Earth is 384,400 kilometers. That's about 30.2 times as large, so the explosion would need around 910.1 times as much energy. That's around 2.04e35j, or around 163,800 times as much energy required to destroy the moon.
You keep saying destroy destroy... try VAPORIZED. The energy require to VAPORIZED the moon would be enought to DESTROY the earth.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That wasn't the same attack. If it was, the explosion caused would have been much larger.
What?!?! So your saying the Piccol would have willing put himself in the explosion?!?!?
All the dragon ball fighters have the ability to concentrate there energy into a small spot.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Goku is hurt by being punched through mountains. Superman has punched people into space, through the earth, to the moon, and across the solar system.
When was this the burden of proof is on you.
----
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except he wasn't. So he's a liar.
Trunks was stronger than he was. He admitted it. Yet he still said he was undefeatable.Using hyperbole claims (that are not supported by the actual events) is just stupid. I can find a billion hyperboles for Superman that put him way beyond anything you can come up with.
You call me a Superman fan like it's some kind of insult. 1/60th is your number, the framerate of human vision, remember?
Now Goku wasn't very tall at this point. The distance in between those two spots is about 2 meters (you can use a range, it could be as great as 3 meters but that wouldn't change things much).
Enough to knock you out so badly you need to be carried home?
First of all, it was never stated the moon was vaporized. Second of all, vaporizing a gravitationally bound body actually takes less energy than scattering its mass (GBE formula). About 10% as much. If you want to claim the moon was only vaporized and not scattered, then that only helps my case.
I was using it as an example to point out your idiotic tactics. It's actually more reliable than Cell's bluff, since it was stated by a knowledgeable person using scientific data with no reason to lie and not someone overconfident and boasting about their own abilities.
Work on your reading comprehension. He said Picollo can't destroy the EARTH. You're the one using strawman attacks.
Translation: Ad hominem fallacy, another ad hominem fallacy, restating your original claim without addressing my counterargument, appeal to motive fallacy, strawman fallacy.Work on your debating. Honestly.
All of whom have no strength feats anywhere near Superman.
"Originally posted by Rorschach
So Gplex.
Do you think that Goku could defeat Galactus? Living Tribunal? Spectre? Wilder of the Infinity Gauntlet, Zero Hour Parallax, and Anit-Monitor? "
Goku in time could defeat galactus.. He muiltiply his strenght over and over.. sayians have no limits. I dont know about the others because I dont know who they are.
Originally posted by Vvendeta
See Goku after Freeza Saga just Show to Fight Cell and Buu, so is smart for you to say:Prove it, you don´t have prove that he is more powerfull.
and I reply: is the argument writed by the author that he train with the better dead fighters in the Universe and train 7 years.
And You Reply: there is not Feats of prove that Goku do that.
And i Show the scan Goku saying those words.
and you say that is not enough of a prove.
Then again there is not point for this dabate.
To make this Debate fair, We have to strecht Goku abilitites from DB, asume that as he Grow stronger and his abilities go stronger too.
If you Superman Soporters don´t accept that, then this thread has no point, the winner due more feats is superman.
I hope you understand my point.
All these true supes fan dont want to believe that Goku muitiply his strenght over and over...
Originally posted by Soljer
I understand what you're TRYING to say - but you aren't understanding that you're simply wrong.We cannot use suppositions, guesses, extrapolations, or wishful thinking. If there isn't proof on the page, we can't pretend there is, and use any amount of arithmetic to 'show' that there is.
Oh, and Cresh, that list looks awfully familiar...😛.
We know dam well that Goku can release huge ammounts of energy (far greater then the his base energy) in short periods of times....
Goku can take supes hits.. Roshi Kamehameha wouldnt even effect Goku can you say supes punches could pulversie the moon?
Originally posted by Vvendeta
Saiyans power ups are hard to calculate, that is what Toriyama show, higher increases in short periods of times, is not posible to aply math.The device they have to reads power all explode.
And if G plex is trying to put it in maths, is using the basic:
Goku Normal x 20 kaioken = Freeza 40%- 50 %
Supersaiyan (Normal x 40 to 50) 100% of Freeza.
Just for you to have and idea. but the power ups are irregulars.
you can say that there is not logic, but that is a diference of opinions, i find it logical.
I was calculating their base forms... The can power up more if they wanted too.
Originally posted by Rorschach
If you want to use that kind of bullshit. Superman's punches are more powerful than Supernovas, since GLs can contain Supernovas and Superman has broken through GL constructs.
Does he releas all that power at once??? if not then what good is it to agrue that...
Originally posted by Vvendeta
The power of blast can being concentrade in one specific point, but since DB they have his power, the scans prove this.And superman fly in space over the speed of light but i Earth is 99% that speed.
Look we know Goku can move faster then light... But how is Superman going to know where Goku is at? Goku can sense him but wtf can Supes do?
They keep saying Supes is faster but we dont see any evidence of this. Sure he can fly fast but how fast can he fight? He gets smash by a bunch of weak supes clones taht even batman can hit... Then he comes back and vaporises them.. which weakens him heaps.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3333/011supermanbatman010remxf2.jpg
Originally posted by GplexWTF Can superman destroy the moon??? can he even compress that power down to a small spot??? Superman has never delieved the same ammount of damage any of the dragon ball fighters can.
All these true supes fan dont want to believe that Goku muitiply his strenght over and over...
Goku can take supes hits.. Roshi Kamehameha wouldnt even effect Goku can you say supes punches could pulversie the moon?
Look we know Goku can move faster then light... But how is Superman going to know where Goku is at? Goku can sense him but wtf can Supes do?
They keep saying Supes is faster but we dont see any evidence of this. Sure he can fly fast but how fast can he fight? He gets smash by a bunch of weak supes clones taht even batman can hit... Then he comes back and vaporises them.. which weakens him heaps.
Yes, Superman can destroy the moon. He can do it with his heat vision and his strength. Superman has knocked Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth, knocked people into Orbit, hit people to the moon, and hit people halfway around the world. That is a lot stronger than the 40 tons that Gokou has been shown to lift.
Gokou is able to absorb energy attacks good but he's hit by strength that doesn't compare to Superman and he gets hurt, and bleeds. Superman could remove his head with a flick of his finger.
Gokou is never shown to be faster than light at all. He takes forever to fly places, and normal people can see him fighting for the most part. Superman has fought around the Earth in a few minutes, to the Sun and back in minutes, and can keep up with Flash. If Superman couldn't do anything but fly faster than light he'd not get any punches in or be able to grab things or pretty much do anything but fly in a straight line.
