Originally posted by BlackC@
You're obviously some 14 year-old without a clue. Your user-name says it all.
15 year-old, thanks 🙂
But seriously, how am I without a clue? A suicidal person obviously does not want to continue living. Why? Because they're in too much 'pain', and they consider the possibilty of a 'blissful rest of death' far better than the alternative. Are they any more deserving of pity than a person who is dying and wants to live? That's not justice, that's their own stupidity. There are those children who are abused both verbally and physically who want to live. There are people who are severly handicapped who want to live. There are starving children in Africa who want to live. So why is it that people who do not deserve to live any more, but not any less, than any other person cannot endanger their life in order to help others? Find a purpose in life to focus on, rather than focusing on the present; sounds like good advice to you?
Side note: pain is relative. Those unnaccustomed to mental anguish would of course be more heavily influenced by sudden unfortunate incidents. Do they deserve pity? Of course. But how many people do you ignore on a regular basis who have gone through worse? Probably more than you realize. Is that fair? Life isn't, but at least having an idealistic dream is better than throwing yourself a pity party, helping no one and detracting attention away from global problems larger than yourself.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I take in the knowledge that I am probably the least sensitive person on these forums.Actually there is quite a lot funny about their "expression of pain", at the same time t can be very annoying as well though. It's just a stupid way of dealing with a situation.
It's a mentally impaired way of dealing with a situation....correction....situations. People do not often become suicidal over one issue, a suidical person becomes so due to numerous issues and pressures.
I personally do not relate. I have been through some rough shit, but suicide was never an option for me. I love life to damn much, and I am assuming that my pain was probably nothing compared to the pain of a suicidal person OR my mental state of mind is stronger than some other person's.
You have every right to find "these expressions of pain" annoying, since it is your opinion and involuntary. However, if you treat a suicidal person with this sort of attitude "you annoy me" you are NOT helping them. The whole "snap out of it" technique does not help, it only makes things worse.
Obviously Bardock you do not have a talent for displaying sensitivity or empathy for a person suffering from such a thing. Rant on about your opinion all you want, but I suggest if a suicidal person seeks help from you....just stay away. 😉
Originally posted by crazylozer
15 year-old, thanks 🙂But seriously, how am I without a clue? A suicidal person obviously does not want to continue living. Why? Because they're in too much 'pain', and they consider the possibilty of a 'blissful rest of death' far better than the alternative. Are they any more deserving of pity than a person who is dying and wants to live? That's not justice, that's their own stupidity. There are those children who are abused both verbally and physically who want to live. There are people who are severly handicapped who want to live. There are starving children in Africa who want to live. So why is it that people who do not deserve to live any more, but not any less, than any other person cannot endanger their life in order to help others? Find a purpose in life to focus on, rather than focusing on the present; sounds like good advice to you?
Side note: pain is relative. Those unnaccustomed to mental anguish would of course be more heavily influenced by sudden unfortunate incidents. Do they deserve pity? Of course. But how many people do you ignore on a regular basis who have gone through worse? Probably more than you realize. Is that fair? Life isn't, but at least having an idealistic dream is better than throwing yourself a pity party, helping no one and detracting attention away from global problems larger than yourself.
It is not about pitying a person. It is about helping a person. Suicidal people (mostly teenagers) have mental issues. It's not about wanting attention to pity, they WANT HELP......Depression is not just a mental state either, its ALSO a physical/psychological one...hence why pills are given.
Suicidal Thoughts are one of the EXTREMES to depression....it is not self provoked, these are involuntary thoughts to an involuntary mental and physical condition.
How can a person with NO self esteem, who thinks that NOBODY cares about him/her, and who is ready to self induce DEATH able to "find a purpose in life?" on thier own? They need help GENIUS 🙄
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It's a mentally impaired way of dealing with a situation....correction....situations. People do not often become suicidal over one issue, a suidical person becomes so due to numerous issues and pressures.I personally do not relate. I have been through some rough shit, but suicide was never an option for me. I love life to damn much, and I am assuming that my pain was probably nothing compared to the pain of a suicidal person OR my mental state of mind is stronger than some other person's.
You have every right to find "these expressions of pain" annoying, since it is your opinion and involuntary. However, if you treat a suicidal person with this sort of attitude "you annoy me" you are NOT helping them. The whole "snap out of it" technique does not help, it only makes things worse.
Obviously Bardock you do not have a talent for displaying sensitivity or empathy for a person suffering from such a thing. Rant on about your opinion all you want, but I suggest if a suicidal person seeks help from you....just stay away. 😉
Okay, and?
Okay, and?
Yes, I have the right to find it annoying. And help a suicidal person? How can you help them? Give them a razor to make it easier? You just apply your love of life on someone who doesn't want to live. So either you want to die, then **** it and kill yourself. Or you don't want to die then stop whining and get over it.
If a suicidal person is looking for help from me I will provide it as I see fit. Whining about how horrible ones life is, is not looking for help. It's being an attention seeking dumbass. I'd be happy if those people would just kill themself. Okay, I'm lying I wouldn't give a ****.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Okay, and?Okay, and?
Yes, I have the right to find it annoying. And help a suicidal person? How can you help them? Give them a razor to make it easier? You just apply your love of life on someone who doesn't want to live. So either you want to die, then **** it and kill yourself. Or you don't want to die then stop whining and get over it.
If a suicidal person is looking for help from me I will provide it as I see fit. Whining about how horrible ones life is, is not looking for help. It's being an attention seeking dumbass. I'd be happy if those people would just kill themself. Okay, I'm lying I wouldn't give a ****.
1) You don't have to give a shit. Just stay away from the situation, you obviously don't care, so you can't help. Don't try.
2) "Whining about how horrible one's life is" is not a seeking of attention, it's a cry for help. If you don't like it, just don't answer it. 😉
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) You don't have to give a shit. Just stay away from the situation, you obviously don't care, so you can't help. Don't try.2) "Whining about how horrible one's life is" is not a seeking of attention, it's a cry for help. If you don't like it, just don't answer it. 😉
1)You can give a shit all you want. You are jsut as enabled to "help" in this situation as I am. Just that you think your definition of "help" is needed. So what?
2) "Help" ...look at this prime example of a "cry for help", also notice the lack of whining in it.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It is not about pitying a person. It is about helping a person. Suicidal people (mostly teenagers) have mental issues. It's not about wanting attention to pity, they WANT HELP......Depression is not just a mental state either, its ALSO a physical/psychological one...hence why pills are given.Suicidal Thoughts are one of the EXTREMES to depression....it is not self provoked, these are involuntary thoughts to an involuntary mental and physical condition.
How can a person with NO self esteem, who thinks that NOBODY cares about him/her, and who is ready to self induce DEATH able to "find a purpose in life?" on thier own? They need help GENIUS 🙄
Oh, to clarify, my previous statements were directed towards suicidal people who chose not to seek nor accept professional help.
Simple fact: you can't help someone in mental anguish who doesn't want to be helped. Therapy and medicine can help, but why should everyone around them be forced to put their lives on hold?
Involuntary thoughts? What happened to personality; what happened to free will? Does that mean that how people answer the glass half-empty/half-full question is involuntary? I really don't believe that people have no say in how they live their lives...
And my "purpose in life" statement was meant to be ironic, if you couldn't tell. Y'know, the whole switch between life and death...not caring if they're dead or alive...while people are involuntarily dying...but I guess that went right over your head and hit God in the balls.
Originally posted by Bardock42
1)You can give a shit all you want. You are jsut as enabled to "help" in this situation as I am. Just that you think your definition of "help" is needed. So what?2) "Help" ...look at this prime example of a "cry for help", also notice the lack of whining in it.
1) Point taken.
2) Obviously if people like you or myself need help, we have the logic and healthy state of mind to ask for it. Most suicidal people, ESPECIALLY suicidal teenagers are not in the right state of mind to come out clean and say "listen, something is very wrong with me. I need help"
There are many suicidal people who ask for help btw.
But for those who are reluctant to ask for help directly, they usually tell someone they REALLY trust what they are going through. You have to understand that most suicidal people lack trust in others. Most of them beleive that NO ONE CARES.....so they "whine" they try to get "pity" and lack the confidense to beleive that people will care and help them right away.
They lack much logic.....you and myself are in healthy states of mind, where we do the rational thing...ask for help...when we really need it. Most suicidal people lack this logic, because thier emotions are overwhelming thier mind. So they "whine" they leave signs. And as mentally healthier human beings, it is our job to recognize these signs and offer help, even when they don't "ask" for it.
Originally posted by crazylozer
Oh, to clarify, my previous statements were directed towards suicidal people who chose not to seek nor accept professional help.
All suicidal people ask for help in thier own ways. Read my above post, many of them do not trust outside help, even though they subconciously want it. They beleive that no one cares, and feel they need to gain "pity" to have someone care. Many suicidal people have the irrational fear that other people will only victimize them and use them further. They are afraid of vulnerability. It is our job as fellow human beings to recognize the signs.
Originally posted by crazylozer
Simple fact: you can't help someone in mental anguish who doesn't want to be helped. Therapy and medicine can help, but why should everyone around them be forced to put their lives on hold?
No, but most suicidal people DO WANT HELP.....most suicidal people WANT someone to STOP THEM..that is why they "whine" that is why they annoy others with thier depressed and pessemistic noise. Why should everyone be forced to put thier lives on hold? To SAVE another life....I think it's a worthy cause. 😉
BTW.....Therapy and Medicine can also make things worse (depending on who is the doctor, and what is the drug). Nothing is better than positive human interaction for such states of mind.
Originally posted by crazylozer
Involuntary thoughts? What happened to personality; what happened to free will? Does that mean that how people answer the glass half-empty/half-full question is involuntary? I really don't believe that people have no say in how they live their lives...
Depression and Suidical Tendencies have nothing to do with free will and even less to do with personality. These are involuntary, caused by both environmental factors and physiological factors. How people answer the half glass question is voluntary, what thier original opinion is is INvoluntary.
People do have a say in how they live thier lives....people have very little say in what kind of state of mind they possess. Depression is not self induced, no one chooses to be depressed...it happens without your permission due to outside stressors and interior physical stressors.
God...how much DO you know about Depression and Suicide? 🙄
Originally posted by crazylozer
And my "purpose in life" statement was meant to be ironic, if you couldn't tell. Y'know, the whole switch between life and death...not caring if they're dead or alive...while people are involuntarily dying...but I guess that went right over your head and hit God in the balls.
You apply this whole "Get over it" argument towards suicidal people, and you have to realize how dangerous that technique is. It DOESNT work.....it's not a choice to be suicidal or depressed, it is something that HAPPENS to people....not something that people bring upon themselves voluntarily, when the hell will you understand that?
Depression doesn't equal suicide. Someone who wants another to stop them from dying doesn't mean that they are necessarily suicidal: that means that they want attention. That may not be a bad thing, because medical help would be just what the doctor ordered.
But suicidal gestures, or self-harm, do not mean that the person is suicidal. Suicide is actually wanting to die. They believe, by and large, that escaping life would help them avoid further pain.
Oh, and therapy involves human interaction.
Originally posted by Pandemoniac
Suicide is a very desperate measure, but you'll have to admit that just about every person has his/hers moment of 'I wish is was never born' somewhere in their lives.
That does not validate suicide, but it does proves that a majority is at times just fed up with being in this world.
This conflict between the natural instinct to survive and the corruption of this by the current human society is something not to be taken lightly.
Btw, for the original poster - My advice would be to focus more on the negative responses you got here instead of the positive ones. I know on the surface that doesn't sound like it makes much sense but those responses alone should inspire you to continue living. You see, by them telling you to end your life or just do it, get it over with...blah...blah...blah, it's like them telling you to quit or get out or we don't want you here kinda stuff as if life were some kind of excusive club or something and they were like the bouncers. So anyway, my point is why give them the satisfaction of quitting. If there's room for them there's room for you too. There's room for everyone in this world and proving people wrong, succeeding in life and not giving them the satisfaction of seeing you give in or quit should be a major motivating factor for you. Now I can continue with lots of clichéd responses that I'm sure you've already heard like...time heals all wounds and erases everything or there's lots of people out there who have it worst than you or you're not the only one who's ever felt this way, you're not alone...etc..etc..etc but what would be the pt in that. Also, if you really do feel this way my best advice would be to get involved in something, like helping others. Sometimes by helping others you end up helping yourself in the process. thumbsup
And lastly, in the words of the immortal Monty Python "Always look on the bright side of life.....whistling "
Originally posted by crazylozer
Depression doesn't equal suicide. Someone who wants another to stop them from dying doesn't mean that they are necessarily suicidal: that means that they want attention. That may not be a bad thing, because medical help would be just what the doctor ordered.But suicidal gestures, or self-harm, do not mean that the person is suicidal. Suicide is actually [b]wanting
to die. They believe, by and large, that escaping life would help them avoid further pain.Oh, and therapy involves human interaction. [/B]
Wow...where did you learn your stuff? You have like no idea what suicide actually is.....do more research before you go ranting your opinion like this.
1) Depression does not equal suicide, you are correct about that. But this does not help your point at all. Poeple who are suicidal ARE depressed......while not all depressed people are suicidal.
People who want another to stop them from dying don't just want attention, wtf are you getting this from?
FACT: Most suicidal people want someone to stop them. It is the natural urge of every human being to survive. They are at conflict with themselves. They are struggling over whether or not they should go through with it, they leave you hints: ie "Whining, pessemism, jokes about death, diary entries, giving away of personal posessions, a lack of interest in things they once loved etc.
Dude, you have so little knowledge on this subject, it's incredible !
2) Suicidal- the state of mind where a person feels extremely overwhelmed by numerous stressful situations (mental, emotional, and/or physical) and starts to contemplate death as an escape.
You silly 15 year old, Suicide is not about the LOVE of death...it's not about a desire to actually die, it's about dying to ESCAPE the suffering of life. However, deep down inside they do not WANT do actually die...why do you think they take so long so go through with it? They WANT someone to stop them, someone to give them a reason to hang on longer, that is where the "signs" come from.
Everyone wants to live....everyone wants to gain pleasure...this is a natural human desire.....people who feel they want to die are totally dissatisfied and hurt by thier lives...those people need help.
3)Therapy - Yes, this does involve human interaction, and can be wondorfully helpful to a suicidal person. But this involves the concept of TRUST.....the suicidal person must feel open enough to trust another person with his or her personal problem. Vulnerability is a fear that suicidal people ironically often feel.
However, there's been a dark side to therapy as well. There have been many people that have been driven to even further depression by thier therapists. Why do you think so many people attack psychology and call therapists "quacks" or "shrinks". People are beginning to trust therapists less and less, and you think a suicidal person wants to seek help from someone with a bad reputation?
Positive Human Interaction from family and friends is one of the best ways to fight suicidal thoughts. The suicidal person needs to be reminded of how many people love him/her. This inspires motivation and a seed of self worth. Therapy is a MUST yes.....on this I think we'd agree, but it's not enough by itself. We must all do our part if we know a person who is suicidal.
The WORST thing to do is treat the suicidal signs like "whining" and to act annoyed by it. You will make that person think you don't give a shit, and it will only make them feel more unworthy and less cared for. Sensitivity is probably the most important thing in this issue, PERIOD.
Whining isn't a suicidal sign. People who are serious about commiting suicide don't go "My life is so horrible. I was dumped. I want to kill myself. I'm going to go slit my wrists." They get on with it. They go missing for days, they stay locked in their rooms, they start taking too many sleeping pills, they get hooked on diet pills, become druggies. They look for ways to escape their reality, and suicide becomes that ultimate escape, the one that isn't just a temporary drug fix. Suicidal tendencies aren't words, they are actions. That's when someone should intervene and help them.
Whining is just that, whining for attention. These people neither deserve pity nor the attention they seek.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wow...where did you learn your stuff? You have like no idea what suicide actually is.....do more research before you go ranting your opinion like this.1) Depression does not equal suicide, you are correct about that. But this does not help your point at all. Poeple who are suicidal ARE depressed......while not all depressed people are suicidal.
People who want another to stop them from dying don't just want attention, wtf are you getting this from?
[B]FACT:
Most suicidal people want someone to stop them. It is the natural urge of every human being to survive. They are at conflict with themselves. They are struggling over whether or not they should go through with it, they leave you hints: ie "Whining, pessemism, jokes about death, diary entries, giving away of personal posessions, a lack of interest in things they once loved etc.Dude, you have so little knowledge on this subject, it's incredible !
2) Suicidal- the state of mind where a person feels extremely overwhelmed by numerous stressful situations (mental, emotional, and/or physical) and starts to contemplate death as an escape.
You silly 15 year old, Suicide is not about the LOVE of death...it's not about a desire to actually die, it's about dying to ESCAPE the suffering of life. However, deep down inside they do not WANT do actually die...why do you think they take so long so go through with it? They WANT someone to stop them, someone to give them a reason to hang on longer, that is where the "signs" come from.
Everyone wants to live....everyone wants to gain pleasure...this is a natural human desire.....people who feel they want to die are totally dissatisfied and hurt by thier lives...those people need help.
3)Therapy - Yes, this does involve human interaction, and can be wondorfully helpful to a suicidal person. But this involves the concept of TRUST.....the suicidal person must feel open enough to trust another person with his or her personal problem. Vulnerability is a fear that suicidal people ironically often feel.
However, there's been a dark side to therapy as well. There have been many people that have been driven to even further depression by thier therapists. Why do you think so many people attack psychology and call therapists "quacks" or "shrinks". People are beginning to trust therapists less and less, and you think a suicidal person wants to seek help from someone with a bad reputation?
Positive Human Interaction from family and friends is one of the best ways to fight suicidal thoughts. The suicidal person needs to be reminded of how many people love him/her. This inspires motivation and a seed of self worth. Therapy is a MUST yes.....on this I think we'd agree, but it's not enough by itself. We must all do our part if we know a person who is suicidal.
The WORST thing to do is treat the suicidal signs like "whining" and to act annoyed by it. You will make that person think you don't give a shit, and it will only make them feel more unworthy and less cared for. Sensitivity is probably the most important thing in this issue, PERIOD. [/B]
What makes you the expert on depression and suicide, O holier than thou?
Depression is a disease with particular symptoms. Suicidal people are not always depressed. Period.
Those who want people to stop them, and do stuff like slitting their wrists, telling everyone they know about how much their life sucks aren't really suicidal; they want help.
They do not want to die, they want someone to help alleviate their pain.
Not wanting to die means not suicidal.
Some people who are suicidal do give off these warning signs, but they do not want to live. Why? Because they feel, by and large, that the world offers nothing but pain ahead, and the only solution is death. It takes time to arrive at this conclusion, which is generally precluded by the aforementioned state of mind. Generally not being bad people, they try to lessen the pain they'll cause others by preparing them for it. Did you know that it does happen that suicidal people kill themselves rather quickly?
It's difficult to make distinctions between the two groups, but there is a difference.
And where exactly did I say that suicidal people loved death? I said they wanted to leave life, that doesn't necessarily mean that they liked doing it. Example: say you were about to get into a fight. You might want to walk away, but you wouldn't exactly like doing it because of the repercussions.
And therapy doesn't necessarily involve a shrink. Ever look the word up in an encyclopedia? There's acupuncture, aromatherapy, massage therapy...do I need to go on?
Once a person accepts the help, and realizes that people care about them, and want to help them get better, they generally are not suicidal anymore.
Originally posted by crazylozer
What makes you the expert on depression and suicide, O holier than thou?Depression is a disease with particular symptoms. Suicidal people are not always depressed. Period.
Those who want people to stop them, and do stuff like slitting their wrists, telling everyone they know about how much their life sucks aren't really suicidal; they want help.
They do not want to die, they want someone to help alleviate their pain.
Not wanting to die means not suicidal.
Some people who are suicidal do give off these warning signs, but they do not want to live. Why? Because they feel, by and large, that the world offers nothing but pain ahead, and the only solution is death. It takes time to arrive at this conclusion, which is generally precluded by the aforementioned state of mind. Generally not being bad people, they try to lessen the pain they'll cause others by preparing them for it. Did you know that it does happen that suicidal people kill themselves rather quickly?
It's difficult to make distinctions between the two groups, but there is a difference.
And where exactly did I say that suicidal people loved death? I said they wanted to leave life, that doesn't necessarily mean that they liked doing it. Example: say you were about to get into a fight. You might want to walk away, but you wouldn't exactly like doing it because of the repercussions.
And therapy doesn't necessarily involve a shrink. Ever look the word up in an encyclopedia? There's acupuncture, aromatherapy, massage therapy...do I need to go on?
Once a person accepts the help, and realizes that people care about them, and want to help them get better, they generally are not suicidal anymore.
Ay Carajo.
Being Suidical does not mean you simply want to die....that is the last stage of being suicidal.
Being Suicidal means you are considering killing yourself. THAT simple.
You are making this a black and white situation, and that's NOT what it is. Going directly to killing oneself is one of two things: The last stage of being suicidal, or the strongest suicidal state of mind. Being suicidal MEANS that you are contemplating death. It doesnt automatically mean you no longer want to live.
Most suicidal people DO want to live. When will you understand this? They subconciously WANT to live, they just do not want to live THIER lives. And since all they know is pain, they cannot imagine life being any better. They are contemplating DEATH as an ESCAPE....but its a LAST RESORT.....they want someone to STOP them before they do it.
Obviously my words alone will not convince you of anything, because you have this set standard idea of what being suicidal means, and everything I say to you will come off as "wrong".
NExt post i will supply you with documented studies on the definition of being suicidal, etc. 😉