God loves all of you even if no one else does

Originally posted by Nellinator
God did not copy them. Judaism can be dated back to 2800 BC at a minimum with the book of Job estimated to be even older than that. Judaism is an original religion and Christianity is as well as the belief in the Messiah dates back to 1800 BC. The argument that Judeo-Christian beliefs are copied is useless because it proves nothing and cannot debase Judeo-Christian beliefs because it can never truly be proven. Mentioning it useless because it does not add to the debate nor does it show any logical rebuttal. I wish everyone on the forum would just quit using it as an out because it can not be shown as fact.

Ugh...Denial 🙄

Zoroastrianism came before Judaism 😉

Cannot be shown as fact huh? So Armaggedon, God, the Devil, and Jesus' apparent counterparts in a religion which predated both Christianity and Judasim, which derived from a near region (Persian lands after Greeks invaded), is just pure coincidence?

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

👆 keep telling urself that buddy !

As I said, Judaism can be dated to 2800BC, well before Zoroastrianism. There is really no concrete proof which one came first and thus my point was that it is a pointless debating tactic.

Originally posted by Nellinator
As I said, Judaism can be dated to 2800BC, well before Zoroastrianism. There is really no concrete proof which one came first and thus my point was that it is a pointless debating tactic.

Zoroastrianism can be dated back to 3000 B.C. 😉

I did say 2800BC at least, but I won't argue this further, it wasn't my point.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I did say 2800BC at least, but I won't argue this further, it wasn't my point.

I understand your point Nellinator, there is no concrete proof of which came first, only approximations, and approximations are not the best way to argue history.

*Understand though, that there is more evidense to confirm that Zoroastrianism predated Judaism, then vise versa.

However, my point is they both predate Christianity. Christianity which claims Jesus Christ as savior, where Judaism denies his role as savior, as does Zoroastrianism.

Both Judaism and Zoroastrianism have a different version of who the savior is, and what exactly his role will be.

According to Christianity- the role of Jesus Christ is to basically lead the way for people to surpass sin and enter Heaven, as long as they follow his teachings (which contradict much of the Old Testament, and even some of the New Testament).

According to Judaism-(or ancient version of Judaism) the savior has not yet come, and the savior is not a sacrafice, but a soldier. One who will vanquish away all of God's enemies, and all who dare oppress, subdue, attack, or demonize God's chosen people (which also includes Christians 😱).

According to Zoroastrianism- the savior named "SAOSHYANT" will be born of the Virgin whose lineage goes back to Zoroaster, and he will set in motion Ahura Mazda's (God's) plan to scortch the EArth in terrible fire. His goal is similiar to the Judaic ancient savior in the sense that he is a punisher, a destroyer of "evil" and not interested in collecting souls for salvation.

If you bothered to read any of this, you will see the hideous coincidense that the Savior is born from a Virgin, Christianity's prime claim, which Zoroastrianism claimed first. Judaism did not claim such a myth. ❌

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]According to Judaism-(or ancient version of Judaism) the savior has not yet come, and the savior is not a sacrafice, but a soldier. One who will vanquish away all of God's enemies, and all who dare oppress, subdue, attack, or demonize God's chosen people (which also includes Christians).

If you bothered to read any of this, you will see the hideous coincidense that the Savior is born from a Virgin, Christianity's prime claim, which Zoroastrianism claimed first. Judaism did not claim such a myth. ❌ [/B]

The Jewish view of the Messiah as soldier is not supported by OT prophecy. It is what they wanted him to be, but it is not what he was meant to be. In fact, if you read Isaiah 52-53 which is known as the passages of the Suffering Servant you will see an exact description of Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. Judaism does claim that the Messiah will be born of a virgin.
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14. A undeniable fact.

Some will argue that the Hebrew word for virgin means young women, but it has been proven that in the Bible the word never refers to a woman that is not a virgin.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Jewish view of the Messiah as soldier is not supported by OT prophecy. It is what they wanted him to be, but it is not what he was meant to be. In fact, if you read Isaiah 52-53 which is known as the passages of the Suffering Servant you will see an exact description of Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. Judaism does claim that the Messiah will be born of a virgin.
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14. A undeniable fact.

Some will argue that the Hebrew word for virgin means young women, but it has been proven that in the Bible the word never refers to a woman that is not a virgin.

The Bible discludes books like the Apocrypha, and plenty of other testaments which would prove contradictory evidence (not like the Bible doesn't contadict itself already)

Point is more evidense points to Zoroastrianism's beginning predating Judaism, than vise versa. Is that absolute proof? No, ofcourse not, and even if it were you would still deny it.

Hey, that's again your right to do. Your Faith is your right, and I will no longer try and break it. Well, not that it was my intention in the first place, but when you argue things as absolute fact, simply beacuse your Bible says so, I feel compelled to argue back.

It must feel bad, feeling that your Faith you hold so dear is repeatedly attacked here. Sorry for that, but when your religion plays a role in the oppression and unjust treatment of many people, you have to expect backlash.

I am not asking you to surrender or question your Faith, although questioning is always a good idea....all I am asking is that when you deal with other people, do not base your entire idealogy on one Faith alone. It does not work for everyone, and taht's what you need to realize. When governing people, religion should have no authority, because that has proven dangerous throughout history. Authority should be objective and fair to ALL faiths, lifestyles, and diversities.

To disagree with that sentiment, would only show me that your mind is truly closed off to the other realities of this world.

I don't feel bad that Christianity is attacked here. Three reasons:
1) People have questions about Christianity and I feel someone needs to give them answers that God would approve of.
2) Christians are responsible for a lot of pain and misery that has happened in this world, but I feel it is important that people know that it is not God who is corrupt, but the people who committed the crimes.
3) Only in response to attacks can people understand that God does love them and wants them to love him back.

Also, I hope you have noticed that I do not judge people here (at least I hope I don't). At the very least I think I can be defender of moral living. Also, notice that I don't ridiculously quote scripture in an attempt to prove a point, nor do I try to scare people into Christianity. I try to answer based on the moral compass the Bible has given me.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't feel bad that Christianity is attacked here. Three reasons:
1) People have questions about Christianity and I feel someone needs to give them answers that God would approve of.
2) Christians are responsible for a lot of pain and misery that has happened in this world, but I feel it is important that people know that it is not God who is corrupt, but the people who committed the crimes.
3) Only in response to attacks can people understand that God does love them and wants them to love him back.

Also, I hope you have noticed that I do not judge people here (at least I hope I don't). At the very least I think I can be defender of moral living. Also, notice that I don't ridiculously quote scripture in an attempt to prove a point, nor do I try to scare people into Christianity. I try to answer based on the moral compass the Bible has given me.

You have thrown around some judgements, but we all do, you're nowhere nearly as bad as some people in this forum. Just remember that you don't have a monopoly on morality and I dont think many people will complain.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't feel bad that Christianity is attacked here. Three reasons:
1) People have questions about Christianity and I feel someone needs to give them answers that God would approve of.
2) Christians are responsible for a lot of pain and misery that has happened in this world, but I feel it is important that people know that it is not God who is corrupt, but the people who committed the crimes.
3) Only in response to attacks can people understand that God does love them and wants them to love him back.

Also, I hope you have noticed that I do not judge people here (at least I hope I don't). At the very least I think I can be defender of moral living. Also, notice that I don't ridiculously quote scripture in an attempt to prove a point, nor do I try to scare people into Christianity. I try to answer based on the moral compass the Bible has given me.

I know all about the teachings of the end times............don't you think I WOULD REALLY WANT TO BE SURE!!.....Before I changed my belief?

Originally posted by debbiejo
I haven't been on a lot lately, but don't seem to remember you attacking others not of your faith, if so, I'm sure we will now here it........btw, I was quite a believer, in fact I used to say this one little prayer always "Jesus, don't let me not believe in all you did.".............And now, I don't believe it............did he forget me, or did I find out something that was the real truth...........If Jesus was and is god, would he not have answered that prayer.???

I know all about the teachings of the end times............don't you think I WOULD REALLY WANT TO BE SURE!!.....Before I changed my belief?

You lost fate. Jesus does not answer prayers of the fateless.

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, I will also deny thee before my Father who is in heaven

Jesus only rewards the fatefull.

Matthew 10:32
Whosoever shall confess me before men, I will confess thee before my Father who is in heaven

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't feel bad that Christianity is attacked here. Three reasons:
1) People have questions about Christianity and I feel someone needs to give them answers that God would approve of.

I can't argue with that. If someone wants to know, and you wish to provide, that sounds reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Nellinator
2) Christians are responsible for a lot of pain and misery that has happened in this world, but I feel it is important that people know that it is not God who is corrupt, but the people who committed the crimes.

I beleive that if God does exist, than he was horribly misrepresented..by both people...and by the Bible itself. A perfect and loving God does not supply contradictions and strife to his people. A Loving God also does not create a place of torment, i.e. Hell. A being of Absolute Love cannot engage in acts of hate, and a merciful God cannot deliver suffering unto his beloved children (all of us).Suffering includes Hell itself, punishments such as the plagues, flood, burning of cities, etc. If you fail to understand that logic, then I decline to bother in further discussion.

Originally posted by Nellinator
3) Only in response to attacks can people understand that God does love them and wants them to love him back.

I think God would find that people would love him much easier if he revealed his true manifestation to everyone on Earth. Then there'd be no more doubt, and no more complications over this issue.

But hey, if God revealed himself, then there would be no more wars, doubt, infidelity, or suffering..and God seems to want those things to continue, so who the hell am I to demand his manifestation ? 🙄

Originally posted by Nellinator
Also, I hope you have noticed that I do not judge people here (at least I hope I don't). At the very least I think I can be defender of moral living. Also, notice that I don't ridiculously quote scripture in an attempt to prove a point, nor do I try to scare people into Christianity. I try to answer based on the moral compass the Bible has given me.

Let's be realistic Nell...we all judge to an extant...we just need to make sure we are aware of it when we do so.

To be a defender of moral living seems Noble, but I am unsure what your definition of moral living actually is. Saying "living by the Bible" is too general an answer, and since the Bible has been the basis for people's justifications of mass murder and torture, I'd rather not base universal moral on that. 😉

Let's be realistic Nell...we all judge to an extant...we just need to make sure we are aware of it when we do so.

To be a defender of moral living seems Noble, but I am unsure what your definition of moral living actually is. Saying "living by the Bible" is too general an answer, and since the Bible has been the basis for people's justifications of mass murder and torture, I'd rather not base universal moral on that.

Yeah the Bible says don't judge but once you know someone you can examine their fruits. Which is their way of living and such. That is not judging because you know the person's heart.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
You lost fate. Jesus does not answer prayers of the fateless.

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, I will also deny thee before my Father who is in heaven

Jesus only rewards the fatefull.

Matthew 10:32
Whosoever shall confess me before men, I will confess thee before my Father who is in heaven

Originally posted by debbiejo
See you in the here after.............and I won't say "I told ya so,...hmmmm maybe I just might, but by that time you'll know".......... 😉

What?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
[b]Let's be realistic Nell...we all judge to an extant...we just need to make sure we are aware of it when we do so.

To be a defender of moral living seems Noble, but I am unsure what your definition of moral living actually is. Saying "living by the Bible" is too general an answer, and since the Bible has been the basis for people's justifications of mass murder and torture, I'd rather not base universal moral on that.

Yeah the Bible says don't judge but once you know someone you can examine their fruits. Which is their way of living and such. That is not judging because you know the person's heart. [/B]

Can you explain why the Bible encourages killing and violence?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Can you explain why the Bible encourages killing and violence?

None are righteous, no, not one. Killing is wrong and so is violence but if Britain, France, and the USA allowed Hitler to do what he wanted by killing and conquering what would have happened? World War II needed to be done and so did many other battles in the Bible.

The book of Joshua shows this that whoever is fighting with God shall have victory.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I haven't been on a lot lately, but don't seem to remember you attacking others not of your faith, if so, I'm sure we will now here it........btw, I was quite a believer, in fact I used to say this one little prayer always "Jesus, don't let me not believe in all you did.".............And now, I don't believe it............did he forget me, or did I find out something that was the real truth...........If Jesus was and is god, would he not have answered that prayer.???

I know all about the teachings of the end times............don't you think I WOULD REALLY WANT TO BE SURE!!.....Before I changed my belief?

Dear Debbiejo, My intent is NOT to offend you so if I do (well it is not really me it is the TRUTH of God's Word that is offending you) I apologize in advance. Here is what I believe you fell victim to.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons ,

I believe based on the totality of things that you have written that you fit this description. The Word of God reveals that in the last days that SOME not all (christian folk) will DEPART from the faith. But why? GIVING HEED.... Do you know what heed is? Heed is ATTENTION. I conjecture that at some point in your christian walk, that you started to give heed (i.e., your attention) to deceiving spirits. These deceiving spirits have no other purpose than to DECEIVE people, especially christians. How do deceiving spirits deceive? They deceive through DOCTRINES OF DEMONS. There are an innumerable amount of theories, ologies, and other religious and non-religious ideas circulating throughout various societies in libraries (as well as on the internet) all over the world. I surmise that at some point in your walk with Jesus that these deceiving spirits began to influence you in an effort to turn you away from God. You must stay grounded in God's Word and prayerful to keep from being deceived. These deceiving spirits are skilled at what they do and they do it through various doctrines. Many of these doctrines are similar to Christianity--ON THE SURFACE but they are doctrines of demons. A lot of these doctrines of demons are appear plausible, logical, and sensible that is where the subtlety lies, in its apparent harmlessness and seeming truth. Deceiving spirits know how to approach and dismantle a christians faith--IF YOU LET THEM. It is not too late. Repent of your error, get back into the Word of God, and yield to the Holy Spirit's leading. The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH and He will guide you into ALL TRUTH.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth ; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Let these words sink down into your ears.

🙂

I beleive that fearmongering has always been a most effective tool of all societies.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Dear Debbiejo, My intent is NOT to offend you so if I do (well it is not really me it is the TRUTH of God's Word that is offending you) I apologize in advance. Here is what I believe you fell victim to.

[B]1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons ,

I believe based on the totality of things that you have written that you fit this description. The Word of God reveals that in the last days that SOME not all (christian folk) will DEPART from the faith. But why? GIVING HEED.... Do you know what heed is? Heed is ATTENTION. I conjecture that at some point in your christian walk, that you started to give heed (i.e., your attention) to deceiving spirits. These deceiving spirits have no other purpose than to DECEIVE people, especially christians. How do deceiving spirits deceive? They deceive through DOCTRINES OF DEMONS. There are an innumerable amount of theories, ologies, and other religious and non-religious ideas circulating throughout various societies in libraries (as well as on the internet) all over the world. I surmise that at some point in your walk with Jesus that these deceiving spirits began to influence you in an effort to turn you away from God. You must stay grounded in God's Word and prayerful to keep from being deceived. These deceiving spirits are skilled at what they do and they do it through various doctrines. Many of these doctrines are similar to Christianity--ON THE SURFACE but they are doctrines of demons. A lot of these doctrines of demons are appear plausible, logical, and sensible that is where the subtlety lies, in its apparent harmlessness and seeming truth. Deceiving spirits know how to approach and dismantle a christians faith--IF YOU LET THEM. It is not too late. Repent of your error, get back into the Word of God, and yield to the Holy Spirit's leading. The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH and He will guide you into ALL TRUTH.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth ; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Let these words sink down into your ears.

🙂 [/B]

Again, I apologize if this hurts your feelings Debbiejo. 🙁