Superman-Darksied-Warlock vs Thor-Silver Surfer-Thanos

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he became a good guy but that he wasnt out searching for powerful artifacts.

There clearly wasn't anything we can draw from Thanos' "MO". He DID say he was trying to make amends for everything he did during his own mini series, but then he went around and did the Annihilation and She Hulk stuff.

What he says is not what he does, necessarily and lets be honest -- all characters have out of character showings.

That alone isn't enough. I would argue that begging Superman for mercy was not at all in Darkseid's nature. That the fear he showed at Doomsday wasn't in Darkseid's nature. That energy leaking from his wounds was never before shown.

I can make a similar argument for every bad showing of Darkseid.

In annihilation he wasnt out looking for any artifacts but instead said he grew bored wit the same life cycles and wanted to spice things up by allying himself with someone familiar with Death.

So maybe he wanted to spice things up with an all new artifact (with properties unknown)? You just can't know.

When he found out was he was up to he turned on him immediately. 🙂

Right, to save himself almost assuredly.

But when they were killing millions and conquering the universe he was fine with it.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
[B]Actually this is how it really happens:

1. Supes takes out Thor right off the bat

That seems unlikely, given the way their fight went down in JLA/Avengers.

2. Warlock and Sufer go at it

3. Darkseid mind rapes Thanos and destroys him with a full power OE

Mindrapes? That seems unlikely. Darkseid has used his telepathy to great effect a handful of time, and Thanos has never actually been taken over by telepathy.

Well if someone is going to mind rape Thanos it would be someone on DS level. Oh and we all know the crossover stuff was complete PIS, Supes is above Thor and would certainly dispose of him in a matter of momments.

Originally posted by Desaad
There clearly wasn't anything we can draw from Thanos' "MO". He DID say he was trying to make amends for everything he did during his own mini series, but then he went around and did the Annihilation and She Hulk stuff.

What he says is not what he does, necessarily and lets be honest -- all characters have out of character showings.

That alone isn't enough. I would argue that begging Superman for mercy was not at all in Darkseid's nature. That the fear he showed at Doomsday wasn't in Darkseid's nature. That energy leaking from his wounds was never before shown.

I can make a similar argument for every bad showing of Darkseid.

So maybe he wanted to spice things up with an all new artifact (with properties unknown)? You just can't know.

Right, to save himself almost assuredly.

But when they were killing millions and conquering the universe he was fine with it.

Darkseid begging for mercy is something else entirely. The reason he hadnt done it before is because he wasnt beaten down that many times and probably because he knew Superman would stop beating on him because of his good guy persona. He was right. Ds answered a challenge which is a part of his character.

I do know because it was explained on panel that Thanos wasnt out for artifacts of power and he didnt pursue one since then.

He was fine with conquering but not killing everyone in the known universe. There is a huge difference between the two.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well if someone is going to mind rape Thanos it would be someone on DS level. Oh and we all know the crossover stuff was complete PIS, Supes is above Thor and would certainly dispose of him in a matter of momments.

Supes and Thor are neck and neck and to think differently is wrong.

Originally posted by Desaad
Translation: I don't actually know what I'm talking about, so I am going to make up some sort of nebulous excuse and hope that no one notices.

If they are alternate futures we don't.

Since we know that this showing is in continuity now, what we can say is that GDS Darkseid's comments about him being "less powerful" in the future than he was in the past (after enslaving 3 billion daxamites, putting Mon-El in a coma, defeating a Controller and Mordru, etc etc) we can extrapolate that the writer intended to show that Darkseid was in fact more powerful than this showing would lead one to believe.

Quite the opposite.

"My power has WANED in this century".

But the direct comparison to current Darkseid was made, and that is enough to say that yes this version of Darkseid was less powerful than current, and therefore - according to that showing - anything that was done here could be replicated by "classic" Darkseid.

We dont count any futuristic showings.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well if someone is going to mind rape Thanos it would be someone on DS level.

Darkseid doesn't demonstrate a lot of telepathy in a lot of his appearances, so I'd argue that is unlikely that he would use it at all (yes, GDS Darkseid obviously had vast telepathy, and Scott Free made it clear that Darkseid's telepathy was above that of Sleez who was able to control Barda and Superman pretty handily, but it is very variable).

I do think that a full Omega Effect could banish Thanos if a direct hit was made, but we also have seen that it can be deflected (Orion did it with Astro Force, Superman did it with Heat Vision).

I think Thanos/Darkseid would be a spectacular battle. It would be Darkseid's superior versatility and energy projection abilities vs Thanos superior physical might (strength and durability).

Oh and we all know the crossover stuff was complete PIS, Supes is above Thor and would certainly dispose of him in a matter of momments.

I don't really believe that, to be honest.

Thor has a long history of amazing feats and I think Superman/Thor would be one of the ages.

Also, I don't buy that Superman would speed blitz right from the beginning, because he basically never does that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who knows at what point Thanos created the She Hulk clone. It was basically a joke. I never said Thanos became a hero but that he found the artifacts powers tha he gained wanting and not self fulfilling.

But he ALSO said that he was going to make amends for all the bad things he had done; re: become good.

I'm saying that obviously this was NOT the case as he quickly slid back. So him saying that he didn't want cosmic artifacts anymore (especially since in the end he did gain control of a cosmic artifact) isn't proof that he would never go after cosmic artifacts again.

Darkseid begging for mercy is something else entirely.

Because you don't like the character as much, and are desperately searching for reasons that your ridiculous retcon is more acceptable than my ridiculous retcon (again, I don't subscribe to either).

The reason he hadnt done it before is because he wasnt beaten down that many times

Right. We've never seen him lose.

And since the retcon makes it clear that it is out of Darkseid's character to lose, and that any time he does lose (physically) it is an avatar, the fact that he lost alone proves that this was an avatar.

We don't need anything beyond that for it to be out of character, as per that retcon.

He was fine with conquering but not killing everyone in the known universe. There is a huge difference between the two.

He was fine with just killing a bunch of them I guess. Yeah, huge difference. The guy is a saint.

I'm not going to keep going in circles about this with you. I get that you want to wipe away any bad THanos showings with this, but I find it sad that you are going to such illogical lengths. You'd be better off just accepting it for the bad showing that it is, and factoring it into his otherwise stellar average.

You're really getting to be as bad as any of those "Darkseid apologists" you complain about.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes a direct comparison was made. But his powers could have been altered as well. You just dont know. We cant count these feats as he hasnt done them yet. The series of events that took place hasnt occurred so to count this is pure folly I am afraid.

We dont count any futuristic showings.

I don't know who this magic "we" is.

We know that this showing is in continuity.

We know that the Darkseid of this future is not the Darkseid of the past, but we also know that the Darkseid of the future makes a direct power comparison to the current Darkseid and says that his power is less than that version (the version that we argue about).

His powers may have been altered, they may not have been. We know that their LEVEL, at least, was lowered and we've seen Darkseid do everything he did here at one time or another in the mainstream universe (in terms of versatility).

This is my last post on this subject, because its clear that (again) there is no reasoning with you on a subject that might threaten to put Darkseid above Thanos (while I do believe that GDS Darkseid is far more powerful than Thanos, I don't think that - factored into his average - it gives him the win in a fight).

I respect your opinion Desaad as you seem very informed, however I believe u are incorrect in ur ideal of "Supes vs Thor". Supes literally has Thor beat in every possible way, he is beyond him plain and simple. Now as for DS vs Thanos, as Iv'e always said DS operates on a much higher level then Thanos. I do not believe them to be peers, if anything DS is peers with skyfather level beings such as Odin.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I respect your opinion Desaad as you seem very informed, however I believe u are incorrect in ur ideal of "Supes vs Thor". Supes literally has Thor beat in every possible way, he is beyond him plain and simple.

I simply don't agree. Thor has fought and defeated some amazing foes, has some incredible feats under his belt, has much more powerful energy attacks, is much more versatile, and definitely has the most powerful attack between the two of them (The Godblast).

Generally Thor fights up close when facing a foe, so I do give Superman the edge because I think he's slightly stronger, he's more durable, more manueverable and all around more physically able.

But Thor has ranged attacks out the wazoo and is physically close enough to Supes to give him a run, even if he only uses the hammer as a bludgeon.

And JLA/Avengers - which is in continuity - supports that.

Now as for DS vs Thanos, as Iv'e always said DS operates on a much higher level then Thanos. I do not believe them to be peers, if anything DS is peers with skyfather level beings such as Odin.

That is your choice, of course, but as someone who has read every Darkseid appearance I can tell you that this just isn't the case. I suspect in part it is because you discount his low showings (losing to Superman) as PIS, whereas I take it all and formulate an average.

To each his own, though.

In all honesty his loses to Supes really go agaisnt his character, it's like when SS was KO'ed by panther. Not to mention the politics behind Supes make it impossible for him to job to anyone....I bet if supes was in marvel guys like Odin and Thanos would be his ***** too.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Actually this is how it really happens:

1. Supes takes out Thor right off the bat

3. Darkseid mind rapes Thanos and destroys him with a full power OE

6. DS then enters and oneshots SS

dontgetit
hysterical

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Actually this is how it really happens:

1. Supes takes out Thor right off the bat

2. Warlock and Sufer go at it

3. Darkseid mind rapes Thanos and destroys him with a full power OE

4. Sufer defeats Warlock and then faces Supes

5. Sufer gets a slight uperhand agaisnt Supes but is unable to finish him off

6. DS then enters and oneshots SS

Team 1 10/10

Actually this is how it really happens:

1. Thanos oneshots Superman

2. Thanos oneshots Darkseid

3 Thanos oneshots Warlock

4. Thanos oneshots Thor and Silver Surfer just for fun

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Actually this is how it really happens:

1. Thanos oneshots Superman

2. Thanos oneshots Darkseid

3 Thanos oneshots Warlock

4. Thanos oneshots Thor and Silver Surfer just for fun

Very true to character 😆

Originally posted by Desaad
But he ALSO said that he was going to make amends for all the bad things he had done; re: become good.

I'm saying that obviously this was NOT the case as he quickly slid back. So him saying that he didn't want cosmic artifacts anymore (especially since in the end he did gain control of a cosmic artifact) isn't proof that he would never go after cosmic artifacts again.

Because you don't like the character as much, and are desperately searching for reasons that your ridiculous retcon is more acceptable than my ridiculous retcon (again, I don't subscribe to either).

Right. We've never seen him lose.

And since the retcon makes it clear that it is out of Darkseid's character to lose, and that any time he does lose (physically) it is an avatar, the fact that he lost alone proves that this was an avatar.

We don't need anything beyond that for it to be out of character, as per that retcon.

He was fine with just killing a bunch of them I guess. Yeah, huge difference. The guy is a saint.

I'm not going to keep going in circles about this with you. I get that you want to wipe away any bad THanos showings with this, but I find it sad that you are going to such illogical lengths. You'd be better off just accepting it for the bad showing that it is, and factoring it into his otherwise stellar average.

You're really getting to be as bad as any of those "Darkseid apologists" you complain about.

Thanos losing to Sg isnt a bad showing but I dont count it as canon and if I did she is undefeated and offpanel.

😉

Originally posted by Desaad
I don't know who this magic "we" is.

We know that this showing is in continuity.

We know that the Darkseid of this future is not the Darkseid of the past, but we also know that the Darkseid of the future makes a direct power comparison to the current Darkseid and says that his power is less than that version (the version that we argue about).

His powers may have been altered, they may not have been. We know that their LEVEL, at least, was lowered and we've seen Darkseid do everything he did here at one time or another in the mainstream universe (in terms of versatility).

This is my last post on this subject, because its clear that (again) there is no reasoning with you on a subject that might threaten to put Darkseid above Thanos (while I do believe that GDS Darkseid is far more powerful than Thanos, I don't think that - factored into his average - it gives him the win in a fight).

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I respect your opinion Desaad as you seem very informed, however I believe u are incorrect in ur ideal of "Supes vs Thor". Supes literally has Thor beat in every possible way, he is beyond him plain and simple. Now as for DS vs Thanos, as Iv'e always said DS operates on a much higher level then Thanos. I do not believe them to be peers, if anything DS is peers with skyfather level beings such as Odin.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
In all honesty his loses to Supes really go agaisnt his character, it's like when SS was KO'ed by panther. Not to mention the politics behind Supes make it impossible for him to job to anyone....I bet if supes was in marvel guys like Odin and Thanos would be his ***** too.

Well then again there's no one in Marvel nearly as famous as Supes either, its much easier to balance things out when u have virtual unknowns.