Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't understand how people can say that the scriptures have been edited. It has been claimed by many people on and off this website. However, it is completely unproven. The canonical New Testament that survives today were established during Paul's and the Peter' s time. This has been proven. It has been proven that the first Council of Nicea did not even call into question the canonical scripture because it had already been established in its present state for centuries. True research would confirm this for you, not the belief in someone person who claims that the scriptures have been changed because it is convient to your beliefs.
Well there is this Secret Mark extracted from one of Clement of Alexandria's letters. Granted there is still a heap of controversy surrounding this baby (even though Clementine scholars overwhelmingly agree that its genuine) but then would you really expect zero-hoopla from a document that shows Jesus with homosexual tendencies.
Originally posted by NellinatorAt the time of Constantine, all the different writings were gathered to prepare him his own bible, so to say. It was at this time that many were accepted and many were not. After this was decided the people who followed the other writings were persecuted and their scriptures burned...They were called heretics, Satan and deceived by the devil.
I don't understand how people can say that the scriptures have been edited. It has been claimed by many people on and off this website. However, it is completely unproven. The canonical New Testament that survives today were established during Paul's and the Peter' s time. This has been proven. It has been proven that the first Council of Nicea did not even call into question the canonical scripture because it had already been established in its present state for centuries. True research would confirm this for you, not the belief in someone person who claims that the scriptures have been changed because it is convient to your beliefs.
Originally posted by debbiejo
At the time of Constantine, all the different writings were gathered to prepare him his own bible, so to say. It was at this time that many were accepted and many were not. After this was decided the people who followed the other writings were persecuted and their scriptures burned...They were called heretics, Satan and deceived by the devil.
I have seen you mention this event many times before debbiejo, but feel you need to know that it is horribly incorrect. The Council of Nicea that was held during Constantine's time was called for by Constantine, but Constantine was uninvolved. I not sure the exact number, but I believe there was around 70 topics discussed at the Council. However, I do know that none of these involved the canonical New Testament Scripture. Look up the rulings of the Nicean Council and see for yourself. The vote on the topic of Christ's divinity was 300 to 2. The leader of the 2 dissenters was Arrius and was excommunicated well after the Nicean Council for other heretical teachings. I did this research with a respected expert on the Nicean Council, Dr. Henry Trickey (he actually did a lot more than me), which hopefully shows that I'm not making this stuff up.
And other research I did is that Gnostic texts were burned and discredited because the church as early as 60 AD rejected the Gnostics as heretical by the Disciple John the Beloved (seen at the right hand of Jesus in the painting of the Last Supper) who was considered the highest authority in the church after Peter and Paul. It is evidenced in 1 John 4:1-2.
Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in flesh is of God.
Gnostics were a Greek philosiphy twist on Christianity. Greek philosiphy stated that the spirit is good and the flesh is bad. They, therefore, believed that Jesus could only be a manifestation of the Spirit, not come in the flesh. This verse was written so that Christians would not let Gnostic teachers stay at their houses as was the custom amongst Christians to shelter teachers of the gospel. Gnostics actually are heretics according to the Bible (and so apparently are the idiot '99th generation descendants'😉 and therefore the actions against them are in way justified, though the means may have been overly harsh.
Gnostics were persecuted well before 60 AD........and remember what was going on at the time....The Jewish Wars as was quoted by Josephus..and yet him and others didn't mention this Messiah (yet the 1 few sentences quoted and inserted).....And yet it was a turblent time........and everyone was suspect and evil..and at that time the word Satan was used quite alot for "enemy".....Others never mentioned Jesus as the Messiah......NEVER!!...........Not divine....it was at the council that HE WAS THOUGHT TO BE SO.
And Constantine was VERY evolved.
he order the texts sent and his Bishop..., can't remember his name as of now, was the real distorter to these texts...his name..hmmm Eusebius I think...
Now you have to think!! Why were the other writings so threating to the church in the first place? Were they worried?? Hmmm
Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe if Jesus was real then his message was like other great messages from other great teachers......It was to love each other...and NO I don't think he is the Messiah......
So, what you think is irrelevant Debbbiejo. The Bible--The Word of God--states that Jesus Christ IS the Messiah.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So, what you think is irrelevant Debbbiejo. The Bible--The Word of God--states that Jesus Christ IS the Messiah.
Actually I think it is very relevant what Debbiejo thinks- The Bible was written by men, mere men, there is no little sticker attached to the front that says "Officially approved as God's word by the Office of Heaven." Really, to be able to claim it as God's word there needs to be some greater amount of evidence supporting the claim - otherwise what do we have? A book written by men who "claim" they were told by Jesus, and even if Jesus existed, then we only have his word - there were plenty of other people throughout history who claimed to have been sons of Gods after all, and we agree they were probably all false.
And remember - it took Constantine and his council to finally declare Jesus divine, and it was they who chose the gospels that would make up the Bible - what would have happened if some of the apocrypha had been included? Or the Gnostic gospels?
True, and if Jesus really wanted us to accept it as "he is god" I would think he would be making an appearance here and there.........It wouldn't be too tough for a god to do....He could have a temple and come down every so often...Just like was stated in the OT with the Ark of the Covenant.....It is said that god would make an appearance. Why hasn't Jesus made any appearances?
Re: The fool has said in his/her heart there is no God
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Anyone that truly wants to know if God exists can know but there is something that you must do first: you must--imperative necessity--humble yourself. This will probably eliminate 99 and 9/10 percent of those reading this thread.
You have so little faith in us. How, then, are we suppose to have faith in you, and, by association, your religion?